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-   -   Ye 42, bring unto me your tale of suffering. (http://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus-50/928319-ye-42-bring-unto-me-your-tale-suffering.html)

irwin7638 01-03-14 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 16378126)
:eek: Maybe I'll just revert to my other dream to ride the perimeter of the USA, at my own pace (estimated at ~70-80 miles / day)

There you go, 60-80 miles/day is my favorite distance for touring. Cover enough ground to go somewhere, but leave enough time to appreciate where you are.

Marc

Road Fan 01-03-14 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 16378126)
One of my post-lottery dreams is to ride the Pacific Atlantic Cycling (PAC) Tour, a well-supported cross country ride of less than 30 days led by Lon Haldeman, an early winner of the RAAM. The suggested training regimen is amazing:

Three Months Before PAC Tour:
•150-200 miles per week
•One day per week over 100 miles
•One long 150 mile ride during the month
•Hang in the back of a fast group (20+ MPH) 30 miles per week

Two Months Before PAC Tour:
•200-250 miles per week
•One or two days per week over 100 miles
•One 200 mile ride during the month
•Ride in the middle of a fast group 30 miles per week

One Month Before PAC Tour:
•250 - 350 miles per week
•Two days per week over 100 miles
•Ride a 200 mile event under 14 hours
•Ride in the front of a fast group for 30 miles per week

:eek: Maybe I'll just revert to my other dream to ride the perimeter of the USA, at my own pace (estimated at ~70-80 miles / day)

Jim,

First, your perimeter ride at 80 miles/day 5 days/week is 400 miles per week.

Second, those weekly requirements are in line with what I've been reading for strenuous multi-day tours. From Friel's "past 50" schedule,

*week 10 - 8.5 hours/week build up, 127.5 miles
*week 9 - 9 build up, 135 miles
*week 8 - 5 recovery, 75 miles
*week 7 - 10 build up, 150 miles
*week 6 - 10.5 build up, 157.5 miles
*week 5 - 5.5 recovery, 82.5 miles
*week 4 - 12 build up, 180 miles
*week 3 - 13 build up, 195 miles
*week 2 - 4.5 recovery and taper, 67.5 miles
*week 1 - event

The distances reflect my now-optimistic assumption of 15 mph average.

It's not just Joe Friel who suggests such big weeks. John Hughes, in "Distance Cycling" presents an 8-week plan with similar weekly durations, and recoveries every other week, rather than every third week as Friel does. Both of these plans are rather short, but Friel says you need to be able to do a several hour long ride weekly as a capability to begin the multi day program, and Hughes says you should have completed his recommended weekend tour training and the tour, as entry criteria. So for me, the overall plan is about 24 weeks, since I've been such an office rat the past few years.

Lon's plan might be to ride 5 days out of 7, for 21 days of riding. To do 3000 miles in 21 days, that's 150 miles per day. Assuming daily duration is 10 hours, that's 15 mph average. Considering there are Rockies, Appalachians, and perhaps some lesser mountain ranges, along with some headwind or storm days, some days on the flats might be 20++ mph and others might be 10 mph. I'm just hypothesizing, but this sounds like a really big challenge! On a ride like this, anything you could do to make yourself and the machine more efficient would make a significant difference in the ability to complete. Aerodynamics, possibly including a fairing, are in my head.

big john 01-03-14 08:57 AM

Dudel, I did my first organized century in 1988 and have done many dozens of them since. I rarely do an organized century these days, (got tired of them), but am gald I did most of them.
Some good memories and stories that live on.
For that first one we didn't follow any structured plan, we just built our mileage until we did 75 the week before the event. I suffered but learned a lot and the second one was a lot more fun.

In more recent years I've done centuries with 12'000 feet of climbing (3) and don't think I'll be doing any more of those but for less challenging centuries, say less than 8000 feet, I just show up and go.
I ride 3 times per week, usually about 500 mile per month, and can finish a century without any special preparation at all. This is due to my huge base and continued riding.

Dudelsack 01-03-14 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StephenH (Post 16377831)
Riding 200k this Saturday, forecast is 20 mph wind.

Are you a randonneur?

dalameda 01-03-14 09:47 AM

Good luck with the training Dudelsack, I'll be interested in hearing if it helps. I get out and ride typically once a week. Last year I did 8 centuries (tried for 10, came up short on a few) and the only "training" I did was ride a little longer each week in the early spring. Like others have mentioned, I think my sweetspot is around 65-80 miles, depending on the elevation gain. I'm working on some interval training now in hopes that that, rather than longer riding will build up the stamina in the coming year. My training isn't nearly as regimented as TCTP, I just try and go harder on some hill segments while out riding. I do have trainingroad and a TCTP style program on that, but with the weather being so nice lately there is no reason to ride indoors.

10 Wheels 01-03-14 09:56 AM

Training :::: Pedal Much

Dudelsack 01-03-14 10:14 AM

Some additional background.

I went from self-employed to corporate owned and operated a year an a half ago. Unlike many whose workload goes down, mine went up for all sorts of reasons. My youngest daughter just turned 18 and is a special needs child, so, as much as I'd like to just ride lots, I can't.

I'm also flat out exhausted when I get home.

Finally, there was a heavy preponderance of blond wooly worms this Fall. As everyone knows, blond wooly worms mean a harsh winter.

I set up my road bike in the basement and I intend to wake up early and do the damn training rides. I worry about fatigue and to a lesser extent injury, but you won't know unless you try.

Jim from Boston 01-03-14 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 16378546)
Jim,

First, your perimeter ride at 80 miles/day 5 days/week is 400 miles per week.

Second, those weekly requirements are in line with what I've been reading for strenuous multi-day tours….

Note that these proposed rides are “post-lottery,” i.e. post-job, with income.

climberguy 01-03-14 10:37 AM

Dudel, I'm with you in spirit and will be interested to hear your progress. I have most of the books mentioned in this thread, incl. Time-Crunched Cyclist, Joe Friel's Cyclist Training Bible and Cycling Past Fifty, and others. I understand your time limitations, as I am a single parent of two boys, ages 8 and 10. But I do have some flexibility in my work schedule, and alternate weekends free when the kids visit their mom.

I would like to do some training but am recovering from lumbar disk surgery and before that, bilateral hernia surgery. Both of those issues limited my cycling somewhat but didn't completely keep me off the bike. I am riding a bit now but figure I need 3-6 mos. of regaining strength and fitness before doing any real training. (You asked for tales of suffering.)

So, let us know how it goes with the Time-Crunched training.

Dudelsack 01-03-14 12:23 PM

Tomorrow is the test day. I'm supposed to ride myself into a coma to prove how much I suck.

I set all the stuff up today. The last thing I want to do is do the test and lose the data.

Here's my man cave reconfigured into the Chamber:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...psjwwiwpcf.jpg

I programmed something called Secondsapp and fed it into a ten year old flat screen Sony by way of a HDMI cable with appropriate converter.

I use the Kurt Kinetic app (free with purchase of the dongles :eek:) which displays all The Data:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...psxnzmd9m3.png

Whats weird is that I don't have a cadence monitor, so I have to figure out how the device derives the value. It seemed pretty accurate.

I then upload The Data to Strava. I learned today that you can't run Strava and the Kinetic apps concurrently.

Strava generated a graph like so:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...psb548dd2d.jpg

The spike is the calibration step and spin down. Sadly, the calibration step leaves me exhausted as I have to dial it up to 320 W, which is more than enough to drope my hamer.

Yes, I took the day off.

I'll post the results of the test tomorrow. The book is that my FTP won't be a watt over 150.

Road Fan 01-03-14 04:48 PM

Ye 42, bring unto me your tale of suffering.
 
I hate it when I get my tooling all set up and then drope my hamer.

woodway 01-03-14 06:40 PM

I entered the Leadville Trail 100 lottery. God help me if I make it through. I'll need to figure out some sort of training program.

Dudelsack 01-03-14 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodway (Post 16380515)
I entered the Leadville Trail 100 lottery. God help me if I make it through. I'll need to figure out some sort of training program.

Veggie cat sez holy carp!

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...-Holy-Carp.jpg

I saw the movie of the year L**** A******* won. I remember the scene where a guy's wife broke out in tears of joy because they pulled him off the course (presumably from certain death).

Zinger 01-03-14 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 16380137)
I hate it when I get my tooling all set up and then drope my hamer.

:roflmao:

:(

I have a wristwatch for intervals which I won't be doing until the spring. I've, in the past, had a tendency to overdo it when I'm racing my watch (which is one reason why I haven't bought any of the new 'puter gizmos). If you overdo it you just set yourself back a couple weeks. But I can make myself hammer by the minutes a little now and then.

For simply finishing flat centuries make sure you're acclimated to about 3/4s the distance fairly comfortably. I probably don't quite have 2000 miles for last year but finished a relatively flat century after a decade off without the intervals. Have worked up to doing about a comfortable metric per weekend before then. I set no speed records.

CbadRider 01-03-14 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudelsack;
I'm trying to answer a question posed on another thread: is there any hope for us slackers over 60? I intend to find out.

Yes there is hope. I trained a woman to do her first half marathon at age 82. Her reason for doing it was "I'd never done one before."

As long as your body can handle the training, you might as well push it to its fullest potential while you still can.

fietsbob 01-04-14 11:43 AM

Took the west to east route , of an east to west suggested one ,
and could barely push my touring bike and Kit Up it , for more than a few steps, before
grabbing the brakes to rest.. and then doing the Sisyphus like, push.. again.

Had a cup of hot tea at the top.

Dudelsack 01-04-14 11:56 AM

It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.

But overall it just kind of sucked.

On test period 1 my averages were 154W and 155BPM. I felt pretty shot, and didn't hope for much on test period 2.

For test 2 my averages were 157W and 155BPM, and the power curve was much more consistent.

If a T. Rex were chasing me I'm sure I could have squeezed out a few more watts, but frankly not many more.

That gives me a FTP of 141W. Pitiful, but it is what it is.

Next session is Monday AM.

I am grateful this is an indoors program. Monday the projected high will be -5F.

osteoclast 01-04-14 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudelsack (Post 16382194)
It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.

But overall it just kind of sucked.

On test period 1 my averages were 154W and 155BPM. I felt pretty shot, and didn't hope for much on test period 2.

For test 2 my averages were 157W and 155BPM, and the power curve was much more consistent.

If a T. Rex were chasing me I'm sure I could have squeezed out a few more watts, but frankly not many more.

That gives me a FTP of 141W. Pitiful, but it is what it is.

Next session is Monday AM.

I am grateful this is an indoors program. Monday the projected high will be -5F.

Which of the Carmichael programs are you going to be doing?

Dudelsack 01-04-14 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osteoclast (Post 16382224)
Which of the Carmichael programs are you going to be doing?

The Time-crunched cyclist, new century rider program. I've ridden one flat century and several hilly metrics. I wear out too quickly on hills and suffer like a dog towards the end of them.

Carmichael, among others, contend that power is power. If I can increase my FTP, I should be able to handle hills better.

It wouldn't hurt to shed about 20# either. I'm not setting out to lose weight, because I don't need the stress, but I wouldn't mind it.

I burned 360 kjoules which corresponds roughly to 360 cal. Not much for all the suffering. A lesson learned.

Jseis 01-04-14 12:18 PM

I've finally condensed my training into two focused days & 205 miles each year (STP). That makes the 3-4 days a week for the coming year much easier and I spend one hell of a lot less on training time and budget. Better yet, during the rest of the year I eat well and feel great.

osteoclast 01-04-14 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudelsack (Post 16382248)
The Time-crunched cyclist, new century rider program. I've ridden one flat century and several hilly metrics. I wear out too quickly on hills and suffer like a dog towards the end of them.

Carmichael, among others, contend that power is power. If I can increase my FTP, I should be able to handle hills better.

It wouldn't hurt to shed about 20# either. I'm not setting out to lose weight, because I don't need the stress, but I wouldn't mind it.

I burned 360 kjoules which corresponds roughly to 360 cal. Not much for all the suffering. A lesson learned.

OK....good luck, I'll be following your progress.

If you're looking to loose weight try "My fitness Pal". At least you will become more aware of calories in and if you want, you can have it determine calories in/ out and an appropriate total calorie count. You don't necessarily have to follow it but it will show you what you might have to do to actually loose weight rather than wish it away.

I presume you are doing this for fun rather than actually prepping for a century. It is an 11 week course where you are peaking your fitness by the end of it.

Best,

Gordon

Carbonfiberboy 01-04-14 01:29 PM

Be careful of your training state, Dudelsack. The veteran of many an ambitious training program, I find that these books are written either for children or the talented. It's so easy to overcook it. Search for me and MRHR.

You need two things: power and endurance. Oddly enough, developing power also develops endurance.

This program will work well indoors, a good thing.

I don't do exact programs anymore. Rather I track my weekly totals for my zones and vary my rides and effort levels in an attempt to hit my goals for that period of my training year. That gives me a lot of needed flexibility, which I need because I mostly train on group rides.

My wife and are contemplating doing a few more and harder rides this year on our tandem. Our A events will be the one-day STP and RAMROD. I've done these several times on my single, but they will be a whole different thing on the tandem with my wife. We will be a 134 y.o. team. We're attempting to find the intersection of my wife's increasing and my declining strength.

We kick off the training season with a Winter Training Series Seattle International Randonneurs ride on Jan. 11: 38 hilly miles, probably in a cold rain. Since it's an SIR ride, it's not really a group ride. Rather it's one of those rides where one catches sight of another rider through the mist and either we pass them and vanish or they pass us and vanish. Yeah, we'll suffer on the 2 mile 10% grade, suffer like dogs. If the weather is reasonable, we might work up to the spring 200k, ~6000' climbing. As it is said, "We don't ride in spite of the pain, we ride because of the pain." It's a perversion that grows on one.

I don't do FTP. Pretty hard to do on a tandem without several thousand dollars of totally unnecessary electronic equipment. However, we hit 312 watts on Strava on the first long climb of the ride last weekend. First time over 300. I'm at least 200 of that. My aerobic talent is zip, it's all training. My talent is that I can ride smart. As it is said, "Age and treachery can overcome youth and skill."

Cougrrcj 01-04-14 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irwin7638 (Post 16377652)
With all that laid out before me, there is no hope. It's too much like thinkin'.

Marc

Me too! Here's my tried-and-true training method.

I ride until I start getting tired. I take a break for 10-15 minutes (or lunch), then ride home. The last few miles of the getting home leg can be brutal. The funny part is my 'getting tired' point gets farther and farther from home with almost every ride. Very little thinking or planning is involved.

crazyb 01-04-14 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 16378126)
One of my post-lottery dreams is to ride the Pacific Atlantic Cycling (PAC) Tour, a well-supported cross country ride of less than 30 days led by Lon Haldeman, an early winner of the RAAM. The suggested training regimen is amazing:

Three Months Before PAC Tour:
•150-200 miles per week
•One day per week over 100 miles
•One long 150 mile ride during the month
•Hang in the back of a fast group (20+ MPH) 30 miles per week

Two Months Before PAC Tour:
•200-250 miles per week
•One or two days per week over 100 miles
•One 200 mile ride during the month
•Ride in the middle of a fast group 30 miles per week

One Month Before PAC Tour:
•250 - 350 miles per week
•Two days per week over 100 miles
•Ride a 200 mile event under 14 hours
•Ride in the front of a fast group for 30 miles per week

:eek: Maybe I'll just revert to my other dream to ride the perimeter of the USA, at my own pace (estimated at ~70-80 miles / day)

Who has time for that?

big john 01-04-14 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osteoclast (Post 16382302)
I presume you are doing this for fun rather than actually prepping for a century. It is an 11 week course where you are peaking your fitness by the end of it.

Best,

Gordon

Yes, it's to prepare for a century.







Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyb (Post 16382759)
Who has time for that?

He did say "post lottery"


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