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  1. #1
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    those young guys when will they learn?

    been cycling for as long as i can remember and have recently started riding with a couple of twenty somethings from work,mostly mountian biking. they all call my trusty hardtail a tank and are forever talking about how many grams they shaved off their bike weight. but when i took them out riding they couldnt even get up the lightweight hills i took them on. wait till i dust them on some "real hills" told them bike doesnt matter as much as strong legs and tecnique.

  2. #2
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.

  3. #3
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    Ha! I love dropping young weight-weenies and techno-geeks, and all of their finery, on climbs, whether on my 1990 Stumpjumper (total hardtail of course) or my aluminum Felt-75 road bike! And then, at the top, after waiting for them to catch up, many if them seem sooo much humbler and nicer than before we started hitting the tough hills.

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  5. #5
    Beicwyr Hapus Gerryattrick's Avatar
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    The problem with a lot of younger mountain bikers is they relate mountain biking mainly to downhill, technical trail riding, where the modern full sus heavy bikes come into their own.

    To me, mountain biking is as much about the uphill part and the cross-country and single-track elements where very often the nature of full sus dissipates much of the energy exerted.

    I occasionally ride at a couple of trail centres where many riders are unwilling or unable to ride to the top on their bouncy bikes.

  6. #6
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    it's not what you have, it's what you do with it
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  7. #7
    Urban Gearhead Brannigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    it's not what you have, it's what you do with it
    Well said!
    I ride bicycles. I have a yellow one, a white one, a black one, and a red one. They make me happy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    If I make it to 92 I am going to live on Drambuie, chain smoke Dunhills, and take up heroin...

  8. #8
    Senior Member BobbyG's Avatar
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    My commuter is heavy, but with tall gearing, long cranks and aero bars I can keep up a good pace until an incline.
    "When life hands you lumens, make lumen-aide!"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by chizlr40 View Post
    those young guys when will they learn?
    Personally, I hope they never learn. I enjoy it when I have the opportunity drop younger riders. If they ever learn, I won't be able to do that so easily.

    I'll never forget the time I was out doing hill repeats (on a hybrid) when a couple of young bucks (college kids) came along on MTBs. A couple of repeats later I had them puking over their bars.
    My two favorite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything.
    The perfect day: Riding a bike to the library.—Peter Golkin


    Lucky for me, I work at a library and bike to work.

  10. #10
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    Full sus is what allows me to mountain bike. Too much for the back and wrists to handle on a ridged. Got a bad ticker so speed is of no concern, but comfort and the ability to trail ride two days or more in a row is!

  11. #11
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    You must have run across some pretty lame 20 something MTBers. The ones I know around here can kick my butt and most everyone else's.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  12. #12
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    I love it when this happens: I'm riding my bent, stopped at a light. A group of team-kit roadies pulls next to me. I'm dressed in a plain white T shirt, khaki slacks and penny loafers. I hork up a loogie the size of a hens egg and spit it at their feet, then I motion to one of the area's hills and make the Morpheus come and get me taunt. We charge up the hill, me on one side and their well-organized paceline on the other. As I crest the hill, I turn my head and give them The Look as they finally arrive, dazed and demoralized...

    The only problem is that it hasn't happened yet, but when it does, dang do I intend to enjoy it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
    I love it when this happens: I'm riding my bent, stopped at a light. A group of team-kit roadies pulls next to me. I'm dressed in a plain white T shirt, khaki slacks and penny loafers. I hork up a loogie the size of a hens egg and spit it at their feet, then I motion to one of the area's hills and make the Morpheus come and get me taunt. We charge up the hill, me on one side and their well-organized paceline on the other. As I crest the hill, I turn my head and give them The Look as they finally arrive, dazed and demoralized...

    The only problem is that it hasn't happened yet, but when it does, dang do I intend to enjoy it.
    When I was younger, about 30 years ago, I rode a century on my recumbent. There was a rest stop at the bottom of a pretty good sized hill/small mountain. I was talking to some other riders and they asked about the recumbent. I told them how they didn't climb as well as a conventional bike. So they left. A little while later I left. Caught and passed them on the climb. All they could say was "Yeah right, can't climb my ***!" It was fun.

    Don't mean to start a recumbent can or can't climb discussion.
    Last edited by LongT; 01-08-14 at 10:16 PM. Reason: clarification

  14. #14
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    Speaking of weight weenies, do any of you remember the middle 80s when the weight weenies were drilling holes in everything? There were almost no componets that they didnt drill holes in. But then----------------------all those componets failed during races, and they learned a very simple fact-------------if you dont finish, you dont win.

  15. #15
    Si Senior dbg's Avatar
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    On a long trip once, the group encountered nasty head winds. We struggled in low gears to maintain 8 mph. At lunch, with 40 miles still ahead of us, the young guys loaded into the SAG vehicle and hitched a ride to the motel. The old guys just powered on.
    David Green, Naperville, IL USA "The older I get, the better I used to be" --Lee Trevino

  16. #16
    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    Speaking of weight weenies, do any of you remember the middle 80s when the weight weenies were drilling holes in everything? There were almost no componets that they didnt drill holes in. But then----------------------all those componets failed during races, and they learned a very simple fact-------------if you dont finish, you dont win.
    You mean like this ?

    drillium_zps710f4505.jpgdrillum 2.jpgdrillum.jpg

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-stop-this-guy!

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-He-s-baacckk-!

    "I never lost a race because my bike was too heavy".......George Mount

  17. #17
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
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    The paradox of cycling equipment is that purchasing and using the most expensive and lightest equipment actually makes you slower and weaker. The only people who will benefit from lighter/more aero equipment are racers.

    The reason is very simple: Let's assume a racer requires 450 watts to go up a long climb on his current bike. His team gives him a bike that's much lighter and more aero. He still powers away at 450 watts, but now he climbs the hill significantly faster.

    Now, let's suppose you can climb this same hill, but it takes you 300 watts and a lot more time. You go out and buy the same bike the pro above has been given (how clever these marketing companies are..,). Because it's lighter and more aero, it now costs just 200 watts to go up this same hill at the same speed. So now you are riding the hill at the same speed, on a more expensive bike, but using less energy. But you keep eating the same amount, because that's just one of the benefits of cycling, you can eat as much as you want! Soon, you are a little fatter. One day, your remarkable fast and expensive new bike breaks, and you are relegated to using your previous bike. But now, instead of expending 300 watts to go up that hill, you are now only expending 200 because you are fatter and because that's what you're now used to, It now takes you longer to get up that hill.

    This is why I think n+1 is a stupid idea, and why having fancy new bikes is rubbish!

    Luis

  18. #18
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    The paradox of cycling equipment is that purchasing and using the most expensive and lightest equipment actually makes you slower and weaker. The only people who will benefit from lighter/more aero equipment are racers.

    The reason is very simple: Let's assume a racer requires 450 watts to go up a long climb on his current bike. His team gives him a bike that's much lighter and more aero. He still powers away at 450 watts, but now he climbs the hill significantly faster.

    Now, let's suppose you can climb this same hill, but it takes you 300 watts and a lot more time. You go out and buy the same bike the pro above has been given (how clever these marketing companies are..,). Because it's lighter and more aero, it now costs just 200 watts to go up this same hill at the same speed. So now you are riding the hill at the same speed, on a more expensive bike, but using less energy. But you keep eating the same amount, because that's just one of the benefits of cycling, you can eat as much as you want! Soon, you are a little fatter. One day, your remarkable fast and expensive new bike breaks, and you are relegated to using your previous bike. But now, instead of expending 300 watts to go up that hill, you are now only expending 200 because you are fatter and because that's what you're now used to, It now takes you longer to get up that hill.

    This is why I think n+1 is a stupid idea, and why having fancy new bikes is rubbish!

    Luis
    Just ditch the bikes and walk.

  19. #19
    USMC Veteran qcpmsame's Avatar
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    Poorly done drillium, yes it is hazardous and has failed, disastrously, at times. Usually by amateurs and lousy machinist that didn't know how or over did the drilling, like the guy shown by Zinger, the links for the C&V thread are gruesome. The teams and builders in the late 60's 70's and early 80's did some beautiful, functional drillium work and pantographing on components. look at some pictures of Eddy Merckx bikes with the drillium Campag components that lightened by only a few grams, but they did it successfully. To say that all or even most failed is incorrect though. Those young guys probably make the same mistake, too, they never seem to learn.

    Drillium Dude, a regular in the C&V forum is a true artist that does some fantastic drillium work. He does some components that are over drilled on purpose and uses them as show or display pieces. His working components are on his and several others bikes and are used every day, hard in some cases.

    Bill
    Last edited by qcpmsame; 01-09-14 at 05:02 PM.
    "I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me" Philippians 4:13

    "We can't control that we have Parkinson's, but we can control how we live with Parkinson's" Davis Phinney

  20. #20
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    The paradox of cycling equipment is that purchasing and using the most expensive and lightest equipment actually makes you slower and weaker. The only people who will benefit from lighter/more aero equipment are racers.

    The reason is very simple: Let's assume a racer requires 450 watts to go up a long climb on his current bike. His team gives him a bike that's much lighter and more aero. He still powers away at 450 watts, but now he climbs the hill significantly faster.

    Now, let's suppose you can climb this same hill, but it takes you 300 watts and a lot more time. You go out and buy the same bike the pro above has been given (how clever these marketing companies are..,). Because it's lighter and more aero, it now costs just 200 watts to go up this same hill at the same speed. So now you are riding the hill at the same speed, on a more expensive bike, but using less energy. But you keep eating the same amount, because that's just one of the benefits of cycling, you can eat as much as you want! Soon, you are a little fatter. One day, your remarkable fast and expensive new bike breaks, and you are relegated to using your previous bike. But now, instead of expending 300 watts to go up that hill, you are now only expending 200 because you are fatter and because that's what you're now used to, It now takes you longer to get up that hill.

    This is why I think n+1 is a stupid idea, and why having fancy new bikes is rubbish!

    Luis
    This is assuming that the rider will stop at the same speed and not push just as hard as before and go faster. Why, in your scenario, does the pro push at the same wattage, but the non-pro only attempt to go the same speed?

  21. #21
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
    This is assuming that the rider will stop at the same speed and not push just as hard as before and go faster. Why, in your scenario, does the pro push at the same wattage, but the non-pro only attempt to go the same speed?
    Yes, it is an assumption, but I think it's a valid one. Most recreational cyclists have no need to go any faster. Most racers do. Yeah, it's a vague generality, but I think it holds enough to make a point about the futility of lightening your equipment when you don't really need to. Or the larger point: just keep using what you've got, it can only make you stronger. Or, don't fall for the marketing.

    Luis

  22. #22
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    This is why I think n+1 is a stupid idea, and why having fancy new bikes is rubbish!
    Only if your sole purpose in riding bikes is to go faster, which is a stupid idea and rubbish.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    This is one of those times I have to agree with BD. There is a reason the young guns do so well on the national level and the old guys have to move on to Masters. Hyperbole does make for a good thread. It would have been better if it would have said, when will these particular "kids" learn. Because I have seen some real fast young riders that can smoke me on my best day. Some of them and still juniors

    Yes there are new younger riders we might out climb, out downhill or out sprint now and then, but if they stick with it we are sooner or later watching as they leave us in the dust. And why don't we reach the top of those long hills and puke like some have described? Because we realize when we are outclassed and give up rather than push for all we are worth to catch the UN-catchable. ( with age comes reality) But it does make for a good story.
    Life is like riding a bicycle - in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving. ~Albert Einstein.

  24. #24
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    The paradox of cycling equipment is that purchasing and using the most expensive and lightest equipment actually makes you slower and weaker. The only people who will benefit from lighter/more aero equipment are racers...

    I get your point, and yes there's a lot of validity to it. But my motto mirrors what LeMond said, "it never gets easier, you just go faster." I doubt that I'm the only non-racer who has a particular effort level programmed into his brain no matter which bike he's on. In the past, when I've gotten a faster bike, it only encouraged me to work even harder to get more advantage.

  25. #25
    Erect member since 1953 cccorlew's Avatar
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    I disagree.
    I commute daily on a bike with fenders, lights and panniers. I enjoy my commute, but I like riding my road bike so much more because it goes faster, and that's just plain fun.

    As for the kids being slow... I wish. The ones around here fly. The only thing I have on them is that I'm willing to ride double centuries.
    WANTED: Not a darn thing. I've got it all. Life is good.
    Website at curtis.corlew.com —— Bicycle blog at ccorlew.blogspot.com

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