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  1. #76
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    I have two bikes - a 2007 Lemond Carbon frame (17lbs) and a Gunnar Crosshairs Cyclocross bike that's steel (21lbs). The Gunnar is heavier for a couple of reasons including a steel fork.

    That said, I'm retiring the Lemond this year because it's got a lot of miles on it and because I've run it into the garage once on top of the car. Since CF sort of accumulates damage and then fails catastrophically, I just sort of figure it's time to deal with it and replace it. Of course, there is also the fact that I really, really want a new bike.....

    What I'm doing is buying a new frame from Anderson Custom Bikes - I'm on the list for a new frame delivered next winter in time for riding next spring. It's a steel frame too because I like the ride.

    I actually found that I'm faster on the Gunnar than I am on the Lemond just because the fit is so perfect and because it has a more comfortable ride. So that's something.

    Now here's the deal on bike weights etc... Just because I'm super anal about this stuff, I've built a spreadsheet of bike weights for the new bike. Yes, it's true that the frame is a bit heavier, but I can *still* bring the weight on this bike in under what it currently is on my Lemond. I don't need it to be lighter than that. What's even neater about it though is that I'm having the bike built so that it can take my current Ultregra mech and then migrate to internal routed electrics in the future.

    As far as weights go on the Gunnar, I'm going to have that bike to weighing in at around 18.1lbs when I finish my upgrade project on that bike (Ultegra 6800+carbon fork vs 105+Tiagra crank+steel fork). And it will ride even better, I'm sure.

    Basically, the weight comes a third from the frame, a third from the wheels and a third from the components. So any additional weight in the frame is going to be not a showstopper.

    What I've found is that you can get a steel frame that is, for all intents and purposes, as high performance as for a carbon frame (for most people). It's not the bike that you would probably choose to race on but it's going to be a plush but high performance ride for the rest of us.

    So, being an engineer, I'm sort of always geared to the latest tech. Without researching it, I was pretty biased towards the newer composites etc.. But after building up and riding my cross bike, I've really learned that the new steel bikes are not the steel of old and they are considerably advanced. Richard Schwinn (Gunnar/Waterford CEO) said it best, "If all bicycles were made from aluminum, titanium, and carbon fiber, then someone invented steel, it would be hailed as a 'miracle material." He's right.

    For specifics - I'm quite happy with my Gunnar frame and found it to be a good value.

    J.

  2. #77
    Senior Member rebel1916's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    I have two bikes - a 2007 Lemond Carbon frame (17lbs) and a Gunnar Crosshairs Cyclocross bike that's steel (21lbs). The Gunnar is heavier for a couple of reasons including a steel fork.

    That said, I'm retiring the Lemond this year because it's got a lot of miles on it and because I've run it into the garage once on top of the car. Since CF sort of accumulates damage and then fails catastrophically, I just sort of figure it's time to deal with it and replace it. Of course, there is also the fact that I really, really want a new bike.....

    What I'm doing is buying a new frame from Anderson Custom Bikes - I'm on the list for a new frame delivered next winter in time for riding next spring. It's a steel frame too because I like the ride.

    I actually found that I'm faster on the Gunnar than I am on the Lemond just because the fit is so perfect and because it has a more comfortable ride. So that's something.

    Now here's the deal on bike weights etc... Just because I'm super anal about this stuff, I've built a spreadsheet of bike weights for the new bike. Yes, it's true that the frame is a bit heavier, but I can *still* bring the weight on this bike in under what it currently is on my Lemond. I don't need it to be lighter than that. What's even neater about it though is that I'm having the bike built so that it can take my current Ultregra mech and then migrate to internal routed electrics in the future.

    As far as weights go on the Gunnar, I'm going to have that bike to weighing in at around 18.1lbs when I finish my upgrade project on that bike (Ultegra 6800+carbon fork vs 105+Tiagra crank+steel fork). And it will ride even better, I'm sure.

    Basically, the weight comes a third from the frame, a third from the wheels and a third from the components. So any additional weight in the frame is going to be not a showstopper.

    What I've found is that you can get a steel frame that is, for all intents and purposes, as high performance as for a carbon frame (for most people). It's not the bike that you would probably choose to race on but it's going to be a plush but high performance ride for the rest of us.

    So, being an engineer, I'm sort of always geared to the latest tech. Without researching it, I was pretty biased towards the newer composites etc.. But after building up and riding my cross bike, I've really learned that the new steel bikes are not the steel of old and they are considerably advanced. Richard Schwinn (Gunnar/Waterford CEO) said it best, "If all bicycles were made from aluminum, titanium, and carbon fiber, then someone invented steel, it would be hailed as a 'miracle material." He's right.

    For specifics - I'm quite happy with my Gunnar frame and found it to be a good value.

    J.
    Hilarity ensues.

  3. #78
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    Don't forget to think about what kind of steel their using, as not all steel is created equal. CrMo, like the stuff used on Bianchis and Surlys, is going to be heavier than TrueTemper OX or Reynolds 853 (or other even higher quality steels!). After a long battle with trying to figure out what I wanted my next bike to be, I finally ordered a Gunnar Sport today. I won't get it for another 6-10 weeks, but after all I've read and researched about this bike, I'm sure I'll love it forever. You can get one of these built up with 105s for not too much. The Roadie is slightly more aggressive. I got mine because I want to commute and do fondos on the same bike, but real races, this probably won't suite. I'm anticipating it to be around 20 +/- 1 lb after it's all built up. More when it's built up in Commuter-Mode (racks, fenders, bags, goofy yellow jacket...).

    When I started looking though, Bianchi and Surly were at the top of my list! I own a bianchi and love it a whole bunch, but this Gunnar is probably going to weigh less than my pista, plus it'll be hand built in Wisconsin, which is pretty rad. I'd call it "affordable," depending on what components you choose. There was a stock, built, 54cm Gunnar Sport at my LBS going for ~$2400.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by huizar View Post
    Don't forget to think about what kind of steel their using, as not all steel is created equal. CrMo, like the stuff used on Bianchis and Surlys, is going to be heavier than TrueTemper OX or Reynolds 853 (or other even higher quality steels!). After a long battle with trying to figure out what I wanted my next bike to be, I finally ordered a Gunnar Sport today. I won't get it for another 6-10 weeks, but after all I've read and researched about this bike, I'm sure I'll love it forever. You can get one of these built up with 105s for not too much. The Roadie is slightly more aggressive. I got mine because I want to commute and do fondos on the same bike, but real races, this probably won't suite. I'm anticipating it to be around 20 +/- 1 lb after it's all built up. More when it's built up in Commuter-Mode (racks, fenders, bags, goofy yellow jacket...).

    When I started looking though, Bianchi and Surly were at the top of my list! I own a bianchi and love it a whole bunch, but this Gunnar is probably going to weigh less than my pista, plus it'll be hand built in Wisconsin, which is pretty rad. I'd call it "affordable," depending on what components you choose. There was a stock, built, 54cm Gunnar Sport at my LBS going for ~$2400.
    Good for you. Good choice. I'm not interested in racing so I'd go for the Sport if I were doing a road bike with Gunnar. The Sport geometry and flexibility with tire widths is important and gives you a wide range of uses.

    My Gunnar Crosshairs has the Gunnar steel fork that came with it. If I were doing it over, I'd have an ENVE fork for it and let Gunnar paint it to match. I think that might make it a pretty plush ride all the way around for sure. In looking into this, I think you could get that weight of that bike down to 18's and for sure sub 20lbs with some careful component selections. I can do that on my 58cm frame so you should be more than fine on your 54cm frame. PM me if you are interested in the details.

    J.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Good for you. Good choice. I'm not interested in racing so I'd go for the Sport if I were doing a road bike with Gunnar. The Sport geometry and flexibility with tire widths is important and gives you a wide range of uses.

    My Gunnar Crosshairs has the Gunnar steel fork that came with it. If I were doing it over, I'd have an ENVE fork for it and let Gunnar paint it to match. I think that might make it a pretty plush ride all the way around for sure. In looking into this, I think you could get that weight of that bike down to 18's and for sure sub 20lbs with some careful component selections. I can do that on my 58cm frame so you should be more than fine on your 54cm frame. PM me if you are interested in the details.

    J.
    Hey J, thanks for the tips! I don't know why I posted the size of that Gunnar in the shop, haha, the one I ordered is actually a 60cm. Not sure I can get it down to sub 20s (building up with Ultegra, which should help with the weight, but I'm definitely going Brooks on the saddle, so that'll counterbalance any of those weight savings). I was thinking about going carbon with the fork, but worried about long-term durability. I like the idea of being able to keep this bike for a million years if I treat it right, and figure out how to live for a million years.

  6. #81
    Senior Member bruce19's Avatar
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    So I bought this Steel frame Guru from a fellow cycle club member. It has been ridden twice before I got it. It's Columbus Spirit tubing and weighs 18 lb 8 oz with speedplay pedals. Gruppo is SRAM Rival with Ksyrium Elite wheels. I'm having the crankset changed to SRAM Red. Other than that the geometry is perfect for me. Got it for $1200 which everyone tells me is a steal. I've ridden it about 25 miles and it really is sweet. Looking forward to a 40 mi. club ride tomorrow.
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  7. #82
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    These look pretty cool, cheaper than the Gunnar too: URBAN TOUR 2014 PRE-ORDER ? horse

  8. #83
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huizar View Post
    These look pretty cool, cheaper than the Gunnar too: URBAN TOUR 2014 PRE-ORDER ? horse
    It's $1400 for frame and fork plus at least another $100 for shipping. Gunnar is $1200.

  9. #84
    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
    I ride a Salsa Casseroll. It is the best bike I ever owned.
    I like mine as well; it's a sweet bike.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by big john View Post
    It's $1400 for frame and fork plus at least another $100 for shipping. Gunnar is $1200.
    Whoops, I didn't realize that price was HALF. And for 4130 CrMo that's not really a good deal. Maybe it's got that Made in Brooklyn up charge?

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by huizar View Post
    Hey J, thanks for the tips! I don't know why I posted the size of that Gunnar in the shop, haha, the one I ordered is actually a 60cm. Not sure I can get it down to sub 20s (building up with Ultegra, which should help with the weight, but I'm definitely going Brooks on the saddle, so that'll counterbalance any of those weight savings). I was thinking about going carbon with the fork, but worried about long-term durability. I like the idea of being able to keep this bike for a million years if I treat it right, and figure out how to live for a million years.
    I don't think there is any long term reliability issue with the carbon fork. I wish I'd done it on mine and will probably upgrade to that this summer. But it won't be as cool since it won't be painted to match.

    Your frame will probably come in at around 3.8-4lbs, I would guess. That means you ought to be able to get it sub 20 lbs for sure and maybe less than that. My frame is a 58cm (give or take) which isn't a lot smaller than yours. Plus mine is a crosshairs so it probably a bit more stout.

    J.

  12. #87
    your god hates me Bob Ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    [COLOR=#000000]
    I don't even weigh Myself anymore, it gets done with Checkups at the MD.
    LOL! ^^^This
    I have no idea what I weigh (though I'm confident it's +/- 5lbs from what I was at my last physical 18 months ago), and even less what my bikes weigh.
    But I have a steel Strong that Carl designed/built for me in late 2010, and it's the bee's knees. Fantastic ride, fantastic fit, gorgeous to look at... I honestly have no idea, pure conjecture, but if you put a revolver to my head and told me to guess how much it weighs I'd say 17, maybe 18lbs? It's got S&S Couplers which add ~900 grams to the package, so let's call it 18. I'm guessing.

    I do know that my 1986 Bridgestone, made from 4130 CroMo, is 24lbs with the full fenders.

  13. #88
    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    I've never given much thought to weight on a bike. I figure if the bike is built right, then it will ride right. Still I took the scale out the other day to weigh a few bikes. My Salsa Casseroll weighs 22.5 lbs which isn't half bad for a 4130 steel bike. My 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 weighs 23 lbs. The two bikes are set up differently as the RB-1 has a triple crank (3 x 7) , the Casseroll has a compact (2 x 9).
    P1010075.jpg

    P1010142.jpg

  14. #89
    Senior Member 2000Para853red's Avatar
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    I put some new components on my 1988 SLX frame with my old mavic helium wheelset and it comes in with pedals @ a little under 18.5 lbs (56cm) frame. I can bring it down quite a bit with lighter wheels to under 18lbs. I like the ride and feel of the SLX......not sure it is my favorite but it is a strong #2 if not #1 . Have two 853 frames and will build one of them sometime soon. Tried every frame material out there.....it is more about the builder and design than material. IMHO lighter frames that are stiff are more fun to climb on.....heavier frames that track well are more fun while descending ! Waterford built my SLX frame and did an excellent job.....beautiful paint too !

  15. #90
    blt
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    I like mine, too. My 2012 Salsa Casseroll is approaching its second birthday. I can't imagine getting a nicer ride without paying a lot more money. I love it, I'm sad for others that they don't make it anymore, but I got mine.

  16. #91
    The Rock Cycle eofelis's Avatar
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    My bf has a Independent Fabrications Steel Crown Jewel. He had a frame design already and went directly to IF to order it (you don't need to order through a dealer). He said that working with the IF folks was awesome. He loves the bike too. He also has two Gunnar Roadies in stock sizes. He likes the Roadies but says the IF is a bit better fit for him.

    I have a Gunnar Sport. It's a custom geometry, but a custom for someone else. I got it second hand on ebay. I have a steel Surly Pacer fork on it. It has a lovely smooth ride.
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  17. #92
    Senior Member Wildwood's Avatar
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    IMG_0948 (3).jpgIMG_3907.jpg

    The DeRosa is Columbus SLX. The Tallerico is EL-OS.
    I'd love to ride a frame from Spirit tubing.
    Had a steel Marin made in Italy (Billato) of shaped Brain tubing was too stiff for my tastes, but sure was responsive.

    There are so many options from smaller builders, there is no reason NOT to buy newer steel.
    '81 Austro Daimler Olympian, '86 Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, '87 DeRosa Professional, '99 Calfee TetraPro, '03(?) Macalu Cirrus, '04 Tallerico, '97 Co-Motion Tandem

  18. #93
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    Wow, lots BFers owns custom $$$$ bikes here. I don't even dream about getting one.

    Not many mentions of Jamis here. Friend owns a Jamis quest, solid stiff rides. Much cheaper too (compared to custom bikes).
    65% of all statistics are made up on the spot. - DD

  19. #94
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    I had a beautiful Basso racing frame circa 1986 or so that has been my son's bike. I just upgraded my road bike to 11 speed so I moved over Ultegra 10 speed parts to that bike. Man, did that come out as a beautiful ride. I almost wish I hadn't given it to him. Classic - CLASSIC - looks and modern performance with a very nice supple ride.

    J.

  20. #95
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    I have a 2012 Jamis Quest, with a 105 triple, a mix of 105 and Ultegra, and nice White Industries/Open Pro wheels built by the fine people at the Devil's Gear in New Haven. It has been a fantastic bike. Not quite 20 pounds, handles well, is forgiving in close quarters and bad roads. I run 28mm tires and do not have problems. I would buy another, but this one is going to last into my dotage. I ride 20 to 30 miles on most rides, with a few centuries and events through the summer.

  21. #96
    Semper Fi, A way of life. qcpmsame's Avatar
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    Jamis are very well built and engineered bicycles, our LBS is also a Jamis dealer. They sell well and they are usually a price leader, with a lot of value for the cost. I talked with one of the owners about the steel frames he offered, he said that the Jamis and the Masi (Bruce knows these well) are his two best selling steel frames in modern component builds. The test in magazines I have read all seem to like the geometry and low weight Jamis offers as well as the component offerings at their price points. I'd definitely consider Jamis if I was in the hunt for a steel frame right now.

    Bill
    "I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me" Philippians 4:13

  22. #97
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    My wife and I recently bought our first steel bikes since 1986. We bought Ritchey Breakaway Cross bikes for travel use but we've been riding them around our home when roads are wet and when we're going to be riding dirt roads. I was shocked at the ride, smoother than my 2 recent carbon road bikes!

  23. #98
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    LOL - that's what we did too with our Gunnars (cyclocross version). They were to be our adventure bikes. The steel available now is much more advanced than it was the last time most of us had a steel bike. We found the ride to be just much more plush than with our CF bikes.

    J.

  24. #99
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    I have a jamis quest (105)...I have done double centuries on it and it's a nice ride....for something lighter look at 25 year anniversary Eclipse...it's a beauty!

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
    I've never given much thought to weight on a bike. I figure if the bike is built right, then it will ride right.
    P1010142.jpg
    As a tried and true non-expert that sounds right to me.

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