Al Criner

Cadence is RPMs - how fast you are spinning your pedals. If you are having knee issues, pushing hard in a high gear is probably not helpful.

Hermespan

Of course you are correct Bikelite. Which is why I packed my bike in foam and am flying to Bangkok tomorrow. Thailand and Malaysia have serious sports medicine physicians and clinics. BACH MAI Hospital here in Hanoi has joint problem doctors but this isn't the most sophisticated city for medicine (sure is cheap though - today at HANOI HEART HOSPITAL a treadmill EKG, you know the stress test where they get your heart rate way up for max 13 minutes, was under USD6! Likewise a spirometry, in my case only non-drug comparison version was required, at BACH MAI was similar. A full physical checkup with every basic blood and vital signs test except FOBT at a private hospital in Saigon likewise was a bargain - $50. But right now I'm looking for good not cheap so I am off to slightly expensive but lots of competition Thailand.)

Dolanarc1

Almost without a doubt, shoe's and their set up.

I'm surprised that in this over 50 group no-one remembers. But back in the day when we used straps and toe clips all of my coaches would not allow us to nail on our shoe cleets until we had ridden over 500m. This developed the grove and angle to show where the show plate would line up.
I remember many a Jr that tried to cheat. Then all of a sudden he'd get knee pain. The coach would look and see new shoe's. Then as they said back then
'The **** would hit the fan"

Hermespan

Recognizing that this is a tangent, OK...

What used to be called St. Paul's Hospital (not sure bew band) has a clinic funded by Koreans that is is intended as a clinic for locals. It is staffed by a Korean dentist and one or two physicians. I went there because I thought it was the best deal - I think the locals get treatment for free and foreigners pay a token amount. An ultrasound in the hospital itself was under ten bucks. The consult was same (another ten). The ND. sloke very good English and was not in a rush. He even verified the hospital's findings (of no Baker's cyst) with doi g his own. He happens to be a cardiologist. I didn't go to see him based on speciality. i didn't know ge had obe. I went because the other options are public hospitals (huge lineups - worse than Canada) or expensive private hospitals catering to rich locals and expats on Embassy/fatcat NGO salaries.

I have since found out that there us a fourth best value option. Skipping triage by paying. It's not 'red envelope' (bribes). It's the official system. Instead of paying next to nothing and waiting with fifty patients to be seen, you pay a much higher fee (relative to social medicine rate) and you get priority. This is what the growing middle class here does. But today I seemed to get super priority at HANOI HEART HOSPITAL on another non-emergency matter. It was embarrassing.

Hermespan

Thank you very much Carbonfiberboy.

Yes, no problem supporting body on knuckles, legs straight. Doing more than one *pushup* like that however is another question. MD I have seen recommended losing weight. Thanks for the links to recommended exercises. The plan is to ask at pro bike shops in Bangkok for referral to BIKE sports medicine medical clinic.

Trakhak

Yes, indeed. In 1965, I took my new shoes and cleats to the shoe repairman around the corner from the bike shop and told him to nail the cleats on so my feet would be pointing straight ahead. He started to say something, stopped, and said, "OK." When I picked up the shoes, he said, "See you next week." Wrong! I was back 2 days later.

Hermespan

Dudelsack, Not everyone should use opiates. And Tramadol is close enough to be one. For example if you like them TOO MUCH. And if you lived long in Cambodia which was in the 1990s a pharmaceutical candystore of OTC like India I am told still is. I spent a bit too many years trying to deal with insomnia by drugging anxiety in the dullness of narcotics, soporiphics, hypnotics and anti-seizure meds to say - not for me. I can't speak for others. My small 'l' libertarian ideals have been seasoned into a somewhat controlled marketplace when I see the downside. Over the counter Tramadol? I think it's a mistake. The pusherman Korean doctor suggested I stock up while here - without considering the strict laws in Thailand about non-prescription 'importation' into that Kingdom or what questions in might raise at US Customs etc.

But, of course you meant prescribed appropriately and used judiciously.

Trakhak

Smart!

If all else fails, you can always spend your time in recovery watching Fred Astaire movies, based on your user name.

Hermespan

Every saddle I looked at in Malaysia had too short supports. Perhaps Bangkok will be better.

Hermespan

1. Stapph infection: In November I had a serious enough to be lanced twice MRSA (antiobiotic-resistent) calf infection. It put me on crutches for two weeks. Near the end I felt strange sensations in the very same place where it hurts now. The MD dismissed my concern. In Canada (like Eire, but unlike almost every other country) the doctors are the gatekeepers of medical treatment. You can ask a doctor for a test or treatment and if he doesn't recommend it you go without. There is no marketplace of medicine like the USA. There is no two-tier system of tax-funded and personal savings funded medical services. Each province has a medical insurance plan that is a monopoly. Which us why I get most of my medical services in Asia where people have options. I am not anti-socialized medicine (as the poor due without it) I am however appalled that the 'rich' can't shorten the lines in the land of my birth.

2. Baker's cyst: I was the owner-operator of an artisinal window washing business when I was in my thirties. Many times a day I hoisted myself up onto interior ledges on my left knee. After several years of this I developed what is colloquially called Baker's cyst (nothing to do with baking bread). My GP found if with whatever affordable scan was used then on the rationed medical system in Canada then. He told me to leave it alone as surgery often causes new problems. He prescribed some suitable NSAID and packs (I can't remember if hot or cold - BTW, the recent doctor in Hanoi said hot). Ocassionally it flared up but it was more or less dormant for years. The Korean MD said that for sure I don't gave a Baker 's cyst but the Vietnamese MD ultrasound operator had a different approach. He suggested coming in again when it was symptomatic. Anyway, over the years this problem barely occurred - until I started biking. It reminds me of what happened to my grandather. As a young man digging a trench the earth collapsed and crushed his knee. Thus minor injury came back to haunt him in his old age.

3. Non-Indian/non- runway model walk: Like many people when I stand (and perhaps when I bike, although obviously to a lesser extent) my foot swings out. When ever I tried dance lessons I always found positioning to be artificial to my natural foot position which is at at 40 degree angle.


I speculate that this oroblem (and therefore its solution) is multifaceted - to do with my body, my bike and where they intersect.

CenturionIM

Hey OP, I think this may have to do with your folding bike. I have both road bikes and a folding bike; when riding my folding bike I noticed that I tend to smash more and put more stress on my knee. The seat height was properly adjusted and the folder has 9 gears so those are not the reasons. I think there is something about the geometry that makes me smash. On road bikes I have significantly less problems.

Hermespan

Miamibiker writes: "Do take two tramadol before riding and never a problem."

TWO? What amount. One of 35+- mg gave me all the symptoms of opiate intoxication. Yes, it took the pain away, but isn't pain a message from nature saying "something is wrong - take a break or try something different. Pay attention to me, don't cover up the pain"?

I know a guy in the Philippines who is addicted to codeine and this is progress after years of the same with oxycontin. He's a bodybuilder and likes looking 20 years younger for the obvious benefits. I look like garbage compared to him. But he beats his body up, he spends so much time at it, it 's almost an obsession. He even damages his body because he refuses to stop exercizing. I think it's unnatural. I'll just park my bike for a while until I get some professional and biking community advice. Test out some common sense things first. If it's a choice of taking drugs in order to continue to bicycle I will stop biking. Hopefully that will not be necessary.

Hermespan

What is your folding bike?

katsrevenge

I'm not a 'middle' aged male... but an adult female. I opened this thread because I have a bad knee. I was finding that even with a proper seat placement my knee would get sore in the spot behind it and to the left (right knee) on longer rides. I found that if I rode a few blocks to warm up and then stopped to do leg stretches I'd be fine.

Nothing fancy, just knees slightly wider than shoulders and touch the ground, move legs to have knees both in front of and behind body and bend for and aft. I repeat gently till I no longer feel a stretch. Oh, and I take fish oil. It may just be placebo but my bad joints do feel better!

Hermespan

Zinger, are you suggesting that if my natural posture (e.g. left foot turned out) is irregular , I should try adapting the same foot position (not straight) when pedaling?

Hermespan

I have avoided spinning tor several reasons...

1. I bike for transportation and leisure more than exercise, spinning seems too frenetic
2. I thought spinning would destroy my knees !

Hermespan

Berner writes: "Many sport activities activate muscles in only one direction. Swimming and cycling, in particular..."

Well, this is interesting. If true, I am in trouble because biking and swimming are the only leisure sports I have found that I like. I have considered trying a sport that uses something other than legs and chest/arms.

Hermespan

Jimincalif writes: "ended up adding a washer to each pedal to move them out slightly, moved my cleats all the way in on my shoes to move the feet out, added a 1.5 degree varus wedge inside my left shoe."

VERY interesting.

1. One washer (1 mm?) made a difference ?
2. You wear cleats on you shoes like a golfer or football player. Why?
3. wedges in shoes. Curious

CenturionIM

I got a mezzo.

Zinger

Yeah if you are wearing cleats with clip ons it will certainly show up as a problem if toe out or toe in is in fact the problem in the first place.

You can adjust your cleats for that and they even make spacers so you can move your pedal out so you won't rub your heel on the crankarm (wearing out shoes and scruffing the crankarm). I use a cheaper one than listed below on my right side.

Kneesavers - Product Catalog

Some of the better LBSs even have a RAD (Rotational Adjustment Device) made by "Fit Kit" that use these little antennas to adjust cleats for people with the condition. That's who first fixed my problem with this back in the '80s.

Cleat Alignment: What Is a RAD and Why Use One? | Bike Fitting & Sizing

You would have to make an appointment and take your bike down to put it on their stand. If you aren't buying stuff from them they'd probably charge you for it but an added bonus is that they'll check the rest of your fit over for you and suggest any adjustments that need to be made.

You can also just play with cleat adjustment on your own and get er done but this might save you time and soreness if you ride with clip ons.

Hermespan

This is interesting, that you have knee problems with your Mezzo. If the Classic Ori I tested is the same as your Mezzo, your bike felt an almost perfect fit (in the shop anyway) yet even that bike fauses you problem.

Maybe I'll have to go back to ridinv those monetor size wheeked bicycles of India. I can't quite figure out how much of the problem is me and how much is the bike. I used a too small really Japanese non-folding bike and had no problem. So clearly wheel size is not the issue.

I will look to see if there is any scientific literature that rates bicycle models for incidence of medical problens.

winston63 

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about the pedals - I did find that going to Shimano SPD's was a positive move for me because it kept my foot position stable, but overall I think getting the appropriate bike fit is going to matter the most.

jyl

Start with the basics.

First is saddle height. With your heels on the pedals, slowly pedal (easiest to do this pedaling backwards, while holding the bike and yourself upright using a handy wall or doorway). Your legs should be completely straight or close to it, when the pedals are at their lowest point, and your hips should not be rocking from side to side. Adjust saddle height as needed. Your saddle height is now roughly correct. It is possible your legs are different lengths; this process should detect that.

Second is saddle position fore and aft. There is individual preference involved, but the old rule - that your knee should be over the pedal spindle when the crank is pointing forward - is a starting point.

Third is cadence. Ride at 80 to 100 rpm.

Fourth is - well, you're not using clipless pedals, so we don't need to deal with cleat position or float. Just put the ball of your foot on the pedal. As you pedal, your knee should move up and down in a vertical line (viewed from the front of the bike). You don't want to be knock kneed or bow legged, if you can help it.

Fifth is not over doing it. Don't jump on the bike and pedal a lot further or harder or faster that you are used to doing. Take it gradually.

Let us know if your knees still hurt.

Ozonation

To the OP... I saw your post in the Folding Bike forum, and came here given that you said you cross posted. After reading your posts, I really think you need to re-consider: 1) bike fit; 2) your physical condition; 3) how you ride. There are literally tons of posts in the Folding Bike forum, and very few are about health related problems. The problem could be your bike, but I doubt it. I and many others have ridden hundreds to thousands of kilometres on folding bikes with few, if any, ill effects. You seem to be very much into consulting all sorts of medical specialists: before you start looking at all sorts of complicated scenarios and solutions, look at the simpler ones. If many others have ridden folding bikes without significant problems, and if you are generally healthy, then it is probably neither the bike nor a serious medical complication but rather if you have been fitted to the bike or how you ride the bike.

And I noticed you don't seem too keen on the Canadian health system: it's not perfect, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Good luck.