BikeArkansas

In the last couple weeks I have ridden with a few guys that are racing regionally. They all enter the road, time trial and criterium events. It has been interesting listening to their take on racing. The man that has been the most successful ( I believe he said he is CAT II,) was the most vocal about crashing during a race, but all three of the guys were basically the same. It is part of the race. They all accept that bikes will be broken along with road rash and an occassional broken bone. It seems us recreational riders accept the danger, but the racers accept the certainity of crashing.

wphamilton

They feel that the competition, and the results, are worth the risk. This is the biggest reason I'm unlikely to ever be in a bike race. Not just the risk per se, but the fact that so many riders of varying skills are willing (and some eager) to make aggressive and risky tactics.

bruce19

I think that a big difference is that when one is racing the level of competition is inherently better developed and the riders "safer" at speed. The disparity in experience and skill with recreational riders can be stunningly huge. The recreational riders that I feel safest with are the ex-racers who actually know what can/should be done safely. I try to learn from them on every ride.

wphamilton

Absolutely true, but when crashes are common and accepted there must be at least some of them riding beyond their abilities in races, or else common failures in judgment in riding in those situations. It's that level of judgment that keeps me away - I'm not saying that it's wrong or foolish for anyone else.

Dudelsack 

Gotta consider the costs.
@LAJ one of the 50+ types who races, took a nasty tumble (not his fault, I saw the tape) and now owns titanium hardware in one of his hips.

I don't know if in retrospect he thinks it was worth it.

I'm glad I'm so unathletic. In my younger years it kept me from trashing my knees, and now it keeps me from racing and certain doom.

Bandera

In the last Masters race that I did an ex-District Champ in the 1st row said loudly before the start: "Lets all go to work on Monday!"
There was general assent and we got on with it with no drama.
An experienced group without testosterone poisoning and the requisite skills must still exist today, but I'm not looking for it.

I agree that the recreational riders that I see on my local routes are best avoided, especially the "pacelines" that wobble and straggle without discipline or pace.

Solo miles for me,

-Bandera

bruce19

Just to be clear....I was not thinking anything you said was judgmental. Racers in the heat of competition are usually racing at 10/10ths cause that's how they win. When you are on that edge all kinds of catastrophic events are possible. Having broken ribs in a motorcycle crash on the BRP and having had C1&C2 fused as a result of a cycling accident last July I'm pretty sure 10/10ths is not in my future.

And, as someone else posted, recreational pacelines are pretty damned scary.

Bandera

Indeed, and a Closed Course is the Only Place to test those limits.

One good reason to pin on a number is to take advantage of an actual race course with traffic controls.
One will never experience how that C&V race bike or state-of-the-art Uber$$$-bike actually does handle without pushing into a decreasing radius left hand corner at full chat. Pure suicide on the road, pure exhilaration in a good field.

Once one has the skills, reactions & experience honed in competition training miles are a doddle and one becomes a better & safer rider. If one does choose to race join a quality local club & participate in the "new rider" and weekly training events until you have the paceline skills, speed & reactions to safely negotiate the racing environment. There will be crashes, learn how to minimize the risk and good luck. When riding on the road stick w/ your teammates, foreign jerseys should be excluded exept by invitation. Stay away from everyone else.


-Bandera

mprelaw

In other words, at speed and max effort, bleep happens fast.

berner

I have managed during a lifetime of doing stupid stuff to avoid permanent disfigurement and injury. There are those who contend that intelligence has survival value. There is no evidence to confirm this assertion. On the other hand, dumb luck is a proven tactic.

B. Carfree

Back when all my riding companions were cat1 and cat2 racers, the only talk of crashes were jokes about watching the cat4 races to see a bit of blood. Crashes were not considered acceptable or inevitable.

Nowadays, with more people racing and better training that does not involve bike handling or mentoring, far too many people who are racing accept crashes as the price of admission. I see no need to ride with these folks. I hope they have fun and wish them well, but we'll ride apart.

Zinger

.
Alan McCormack Coors Bicycle Classic rides pt2of2 - YouTube

In the Sacramento criterium of the 1986 Coors Classic Alan McCormack concusses himself badly here at 1:40, complete with seizures, and despite that and two broken bones in his left hand tries to ride the next days stage from Sacramento to Reno.

These boys are badder than most of us.

jppe

One of our regular week night riders had not shown up for rides this year. Turns out he was doing a Cat 5 crit and was pushed out around a corner into a light pole. Suffered cracked ribs and a collapsed lung. Spent 4 days in the hospital and several months off the bike.

on the path

Most of the guys I ride with either race or have raced in the past. I've been encouraged to do so myself. I might consider a TT, where I wouldn't have to compete in the proximity of other others. No crits, crosses, or peloton races for me. I don't wish to put myself in a position where crashes are frequent. I've gone down hard, and crashing isn't as glorious as many would have you believe.

DGlenday

That's the difference between masters and Cat 4 / 3.

It's a good reason to get out of Cat 5 ... but most of the masters races are faster than cat 4 / 3.

LAJ

Thanks @Dudelsack.

To be honest, I am done with it. Fitness is up, but skill level is ridiculously low, in my opinion. I don't know why the guy wrecked, but he was at the tail end of a break that was getting ready to form. That corner was bad, but not as bad as everyone turned it into. The folks after him had time to react, I reacted, but believe I was plowed into from someone who didn't. I can't tell, but the wheels tell a story, and I think that's it.

Earlier, I did race the 55+, and there was a wreck at the same place. Dodged a couple of wheels, no muss, no fuss. Open cat, so it was Cat1 to 4, but though they still wrecked, it wasn't an 80 car pileup from over-reaction, like the 45+4 race that wiped me out.

The 55+ was hauling butt, I was hanging on, but folks were dropping quickly. I had a good chance of a decent finish strictly because I like the pace they were setting. They didn't slow for every corner, so I didn't have to rail it 6 times a lap to hang on, like I do with the kids. 4 neutral laps allowed too much rest for those that were off the back, so instead of a top ten, it was a 16th. Decent for an old 4, but I planned on better.

I'm reliving this here, because, as stated above, I'm done. Its now just a memory, which is sad, because it really is such a jolt.

Back to distance, which was my first passion anyway. But, it's going to be tough when I know they are pinning them on that weekend.

OldsCOOL

Quite a memory. Crashing, the inevitability thereof is what keeps me from racing. I had a bad front wheel taco and got slammed into the asphalt when I was 16. My Motobecane got a new wheel but the collarbone kept me off the bike for a while. Now, me and Strava is plenty fun.

LAJ

It's crazy, @OldsCOOL. I went a year and a half, and kept it upright. Raced with the 4's, 35+4's, and 45+4's. Close, but never hit the ground. That ended almost a year to this day. I have a pretty cool plate in my collarbone, that I can see and feel. First wreck in a race. Healed, came back strong, as that allowed me to start leg strength work early, for this season. Fast forward. Racing strong, but racing greedy. Too many races, had to get my weekend fix, so 3 races a weekend, at times. Law of averages nailed me, but I still don't think it need be so prevalent.

Either way, first one scared me, but I came back pretty strong, and thought I learned a bit. This one terrified me, as my bell was rung, as well. Screws in the leg are a tangible thing, but the mind doing odd things, turned out to be another thing completely.

It can happen just riding a bike, and of course well all know this. But, throwing strong, well conditioned, and on the limit folks together, that collectively couldn't drive (or ride, as the case may be) a hot spike up a snowman's ass, is suicide. I have to throw myself in the mix, but I survived many near misses that would have taken others down. Maybe luck, maybe lots of actual time on the bike, and maybe a little knowledge. But, today's racer spends time getting strong like ox, and could give a crap about actually learning how to ride.

Coachtj Cormier

There's an old saying "there are 2 types of cyclists ones' that crash and those that are going to crash" Face it it happens you will crash at some point.
The thing is to lower the risk by improving all aspects of your skills. Learn how to land when ever possible tuck and roll.
Learn who to avoid, it's easy to tell who to avoid as soon as you line/meet up for a ride/race.
The biggest thing today is riders coming into the sport that are fit and have no clue as to how to rdie but they know everything. the old club system you would never to go to the front of a group/pace line until everyone was sure YOU were safe for them to ride near. You rode at the back and very often were yelled at for every dumb thing you did. If you kept coming back you may have had the chance to learn something.
I see riders at our weekly training race that know everything heck thy'll tell you haw they're a cat 4 racing for almost 2 years. I on the other hand have been racing for close to 30 years, coaching for 16 years but what do I know!