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First Real Enconter with Agressive Driver Today.

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Old 08-27-14, 07:46 PM
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First Real Enconter with Agressive Driver Today.

On my ride home from the gym, there is a spot where I have a stop sign which I make a right turn and then in less than 50 feet I make a left turn. Today I am at the stop sign waiting for traffic to clear to make my right turn, during this time I know there is a car that comes up behind me while I wait. Traffic clears and I make my right turn and go to the left to make my left turn with a signal and I hear the car behind me rev its engine and come flying by me on my left, in the oncoming traffic lane, as I am starting to make my left turn. Almost got hit hard. Wish I would have had a camera to be able to report the woman to the police.
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Old 08-27-14, 10:14 PM
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Sure, she unlawfully passed you on the left after you had signalled a left turn. However, that leaves open the question of whether she was being aggressive or is just an unskilled ignorant motorist (big club and darned near redundant). On the bright side, this sort of thing is pretty easy to predict and react properly to. It's only life-threatening if you lack the situational awareness to predict it.

Maybe some day we'll have real knowledge and skills tests that people will have to pass in order to operate motor vehicles, but I doubt it. We're more likely to enter the era of the autonomous Google cars first.
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Old 08-28-14, 08:34 AM
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What were you expecting the driver to do?

There are a certain fraction of drivers that expect to and will attempt to pass a cyclist no matter what. By moving to the left, there are three possibilities, 1) car behind politely waits for you to execute your left turn without passing, 2) car passes left, 3) car passes right. #3 is not benign. There could be another vehicle following that doesn't see you....

I think you need to re-evaluate your expectations of auto drivers. Your longevity as a cyclist sharing the road with cars depends upon keeping those expectations real low.
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Old 08-28-14, 08:49 AM
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It happens. I try to avoid situations like that. Having the right of way will be of little comfort to my widow.
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Old 08-28-14, 08:50 AM
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Hanlon's razor states: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

I've been there too, far too many times. I've found that while their actions seem aggressive they typically appear to be just drivers not looking past the hood of their car and not thinking past the nose on their face. They are just not paying attention.

It's gonna happen, we just have to watch like hawks. if it happens too much to you then look into investing in a GoPro camera to capture the events and turn the footage over to the police and post it online in hopes the users gets recognized and shamed.
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Old 08-28-14, 09:01 AM
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Cameras are great I use one but the police actually can not do anything unless you get hit real sucks! But if you did and survived you have evidence you can use if you captured it.
This I know because I did get video of someone missing my by inches I did sent it to the local traffic division and did get a call from the Captain which was nice but was told that they ca not even contact the person to give a warning unless I was actually hit or assaulted.
Ok so I need to get hit and hope to live before anything can be done? I even had a good frame on video of the plate and you could clearly see the SUV was 12" from me at 30+mph.
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Old 08-28-14, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by no sweat
What were you expecting the driver to do?
I expect the exact same reaction as if I were making a left turn in my SUV. This driver would never pass on the left of a car making a left turn. She needs to be report for reckless driving (with or without malice, it is still reckless).

I ride with a GoPro and have made a hand-full of reports to local police with positive responses. I have also posted videos of bad commercial drivers.

Here is an example of video I submitted to local PD:
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Old 08-28-14, 09:15 AM
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I don't use a mirror but I know I should. That would have helped you in this case as you would have seen the boneheaded move this driver was doing before you started your left turn.
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Old 08-28-14, 09:23 AM
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There's no excusing or condoning that kind of driving. It's just wrong.

On the other hand, you as a cyclist have to decide how you want to interact with traffic and ride on the roads. If there's a car behind you, you can exercise your right to use the road and proceed as you have planned. That's legal but it runs the risk that the car behind will do something dangerous. Or you can slow down or stop and wait for to the car to pass before you move over to the left, if the car is going to, and then proceed to your right and left turns without the car behind you. That is, assuming the traffic is not constant. I know which I would do, but you have to make a choice.
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Old 08-28-14, 09:46 AM
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One of the roads near my house has a very sharp, blind curve, no shoulder at all, what's left of the pavement with a white line, then the ditch. I usually start moveing left about 100 yards out, first to the right tire track, then the left tire track to enter the turn. It is not unusual for somebody to pass me on the left, going into the blind curve. There have been some close calls. I'm waiting for the day there is a head on colision and then they try to blame me.
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Old 08-28-14, 10:49 AM
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It is a great reminder that we all should expect the unexpected if we want to live to ride another day.

Last night we had a group of 7 in a single file pace line on a 2 lane rural road that is somewhat busy. A we were approaching our left turn, we moved over as a group from the right hand side of the road and took the full lane while signaling our intentions to turn left. A red pick up blew past us on the left and in the oncoming lane just as we were getting ready to make the turn. You just never know.........
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Old 08-28-14, 11:10 AM
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From experience I can only advise to Forget About It; at least as far as emotions go.

I routinely ride on the highway. Most of the time my experience on the bike is no different than that when driving a motor vehicle. But, there are exceptions that are directly related to the bike.

Each one I learned from and amended my behavior to hopefully reduce the future possibility of a repeat. Still no substitute for keeping your head on a swivel.

I decided that I wasn't going to carry the emotional burden of the incidents. I remember them. But without any emotion. More like reading a history book.

This might help for perspective. According to the authorities in CO approximately 1/3 of all drivers on the road have either no insurance, or no license, or neither. I suspect that is probably true nationally. Many are in that situation because they can't obtain license or insurance. You can guess the reasons.

So, as we age we owe it to ourselves to keep ourselves physically and mentally fit and to not become a hazard ourselves.
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Old 08-28-14, 02:50 PM
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The aggressive dangerous drivers are everywhere (not too many)--unfortunately as a cyclist we are so vulnerable and any close calls do become bigger in our mind and not that easy to shake.

The best way is to avoid dangerous area or situations which is not always easy.

I will always wonder what these drivers are really thinking--or do they?

Another close call today in a large group and thought the leading cyclist which was a tandem was going to get hit.

Stay safe.
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Old 08-28-14, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by drorgo
............. I make my right turn and go to the left to make my left turn with a signal and I hear the car behind me rev its engine and come flying by me on my left............. Almost got hit hard.
Yep these things happen! Cars hit other cars all the time. Of course it's a bigger deal when cars hit people (like cyclists) because people break easier. But I would have guessed most cyclists knew that.
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Old 09-24-14, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JTGraphics
Cameras are great I use one but the police actually can not do anything unless you get hit real sucks! But if you did and survived you have evidence you can use if you captured it.
This I know because I did get video of someone missing my by inches I did sent it to the local traffic division and did get a call from the Captain which was nice but was told that they ca not even contact the person to give a warning unless I was actually hit or assaulted.
Ok so I need to get hit and hope to live before anything can be done? I even had a good frame on video of the plate and you could clearly see the SUV was 12" from me at 30+mph.
cops make up their own rules. the truth is they can do whatever they want. meaning, they can make a phone call on your behalf if they want to. at a local police sta one officer knew what "assault" was and another did not. ludicrous
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Old 09-24-14, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by VNA
The aggressive dangerous drivers are everywhere (not too many)--unfortunately as a cyclist we are so vulnerable and any close calls do become bigger in our mind and not that easy to shake.

Stay safe.
Exactly.

A close call with a distracted driver when I'm in my Ram 2500 crew cab diesel truck barely registers. On my bike, it gets my attention very fast. The big truck is likely to come out victorious should the two collide....the bike (and me) not so much.....
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Old 09-25-14, 07:38 AM
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One woman driver here in town almost learned not to suck eggs and thinks she is more important than a cyclist. I was waiting at a stop light on a MUP. When the light turned green I took off, a woman making a left turn in front of me decided she had the right of way over me, and turned left right in front of me. She had to go wide to miss me, and banged up on the right side curb, and wobbled down off the curb. Hopefully is was a good object lesson for her.
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Old 09-25-14, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree
Sure, she unlawfully passed you on the left after you had signalled a left turn. However, that leaves open the question of whether she was being aggressive or is just an unskilled ignorant motorist (big club and darned near redundant). On the bright side, this sort of thing is pretty easy to predict and react properly to. It's only life-threatening if you lack the situational awareness to predict it.
Very well said, that was a prime point when teaching the Motorcycle Safety Foundation Rider course. Look ahead to what COULD HAPPEN.
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Old 09-25-14, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Rootman
Hanlon's razor states: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
You had me looking up "Hanlon's razor". I always heard that quote attributed to Napoleon.

Originally Posted by bikemig
I don't use a mirror but I know I should. That would have helped you in this case as you would have seen the boneheaded move this driver was doing before you started your left turn.
I can recommend one. Rear view mirrors rock.

Personally, it sounds to me like a case of aggressive stupidity. But I don't think it's necessarily cyclist directed ... you were just a more convenient victim. I had someone pass me (driving the follow vehicle at highway speeds) on the HooDoo 500. Put on the turn signal way in advance to make a left turn into a gas station, and the guy swung around and passed me (in the left turn lane!) anyway. Cripes ... can anyone really be that stupid? Yup.

Bad things happen at the intersection of aggression and ignorance/stupidity. That's the stuff felonies are made of.
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Old 09-25-14, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by SammyJ
Very well said, that was a prime point when teaching the Motorcycle Safety Foundation Rider course. Look ahead to what COULD HAPPEN.
Plan for other driver's stupidity.
Always assume they don't see you.
Assume if they do see you, they will try to kill you.
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Old 09-25-14, 12:06 PM
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I remember being taught the 5 rules of defensive driving in drivers ed.

Here are two....

-Get the big picture
-Always leave yourself an out.
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Old 09-25-14, 01:08 PM
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Some people are chiding OP, politely which I respect, but I'm sorry I just don't see it. He set up the turn exactly like he's supposed to, and as far as I can tell the safest way possible. The car behind him has to wait on his turn, just as if he was a car, motorcycle, bike or horse and buggy. The way it works on every other non-regulated intersection, every day, everywhere. Safer for him with that car back there than any alternative scenario.

He can't stop off the right side and wait for traffic to clear before crossing to the left turn position and then turning. Not with cars turning right at that intersection only 50 feet back - he'd only be increasing his exposure! It's better to have a car following that knows he's there. What else - wait at the right turn until all of the traffic is clear? But if that's a traffic light intersection, that means that through traffic will start up soon, while he's doing his left. That's even worse. The only thing I can see is (possibly) going through the first intersection and switching to a sidewalk for 50 feet, if that's possible.

What's left, go around the block with all rights, or turn earlier and transfer the left to another intersection, or go past and loop back around. Maybe, in some cases, but not because of a single instance of a lunatic driver having a meltdown. And I for one don't do that habitually out of fear of a quick left, so I'm having a hard time finding fault with what OP did.
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Old 09-25-14, 01:37 PM
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To address comments by several posters.....and, this is specific to CT, bicycles are considered vehicles and if I am in the OP's situation I expect to be treated by other vehicle operators as a vehicle. This is not to say this happens all the time although around here it frequently does. Also, CT has a law that requires cars give a minimum of 3 ft space when passing a bicycle. I would assume that if you presented video evidence of a violation of this law the police can use it.
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Old 09-25-14, 01:39 PM
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There are people who lose all sense of decency when they get behind the wheel. My guess is that you were not a special case of her road rage and this was not her first incident.
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Old 09-25-14, 05:33 PM
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I live on a moderately busy street, and twice, while signaling a right hand turn into my driveway, I've had people pass me on the right!

Idiots are every where!
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