Roundabout nightmare.
#51
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Here in Lincoln the so called traffic engineers put in a roundabout against the wishes of the people in the neighborhood. The big problem was it was a roundabout that had a 2 lane and a 4 lane arterial crossing each other. It was a diaster!!!!!!! The 4 lane, 2 in each direction turned into 3 lanes in the roundabout. They were having 3 or 4 wrecks a week. Now they have reduced the lanes in the circle to 2, and have had to put up blind fences on your left right up till you hit the circle. Now traffic has to almost stop untill you get into the circle. The city wont, but IMO any traffic engineer that had anything to do with forcing that POS on the public here should be fired. It is not safe for cars let alone bikes.
#52
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They've worked out really well around here.
J.
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Most of our costs are landscaping and buying right-of-way from the landowners. Then maintenance. But then, the typical roundabout here looks like this. This is a bit over the top but there's plenty more larger with structures, etc in the middle to obscure the roads.
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Four and 5 lane roundabouts were common in the larger cities of Spain, Valencia and Barcelona. They felt a little chaotic and intimidating at first, but never dangerous. Some of the other European countries we rode through tried to make bike friendly crossings at their roundabouts, but these were often confusing and it was safer and easier just to flow through with the auto traffic.
Many of the roudabouts were located at major intersections, saving several acres of land by eliminating clovers leaves and long entrance and exit ramps.
I believe that most problems at roundabouts are driver problems, not engineering problems. Negotiating roundabouts is a learned skill just like any other driving skill.
Iceland
France
Many of the roudabouts were located at major intersections, saving several acres of land by eliminating clovers leaves and long entrance and exit ramps.
I believe that most problems at roundabouts are driver problems, not engineering problems. Negotiating roundabouts is a learned skill just like any other driving skill.
Iceland
France
Last edited by Doug64; 09-01-14 at 10:48 PM.
#55
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We've had a roundabout in our morning commute forever. It joins five heavily used roadways. It used to be a rotary, which supposedly meant that to enter the circle it was alternating car for car. In heavy traffic it would lock from time to time when a car entering would take his turn but there was no where to go so the circle would stall. Against everyone's wishes they decided to convert it to a roundabout, changing the entrance angles and making the circle larger. The new rules were you can not enter the circle if a car is coming towards you, pretty much a yield sign.
No more circle locks and accidents are few. The lines into the roundabout sometimes get longer during peak hours but the flow never stops. I go through on the bike from time to time and find if I keep my speed up, sit up nice and straight and signal my exit I've never had a problem.
Knock on wood!
No more circle locks and accidents are few. The lines into the roundabout sometimes get longer during peak hours but the flow never stops. I go through on the bike from time to time and find if I keep my speed up, sit up nice and straight and signal my exit I've never had a problem.
Knock on wood!
#56
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That explains it. Ours are single lane with an apron for semi wheels/trailers. The whole things fits in the existing right of way (was a turn lane in at least one direction before) at the former intersection. They have a mound of dirt in the center with some appropriate bushes and indigenous plantings etc... Nothing fancy but looks nice. No need to buy right of way, no need for heavy landscaping, no cobblestones or stamped concrete.
J.
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Here in Massachusetts they [roundabouts] are frequent, and are called “rotaries.”
We've had a roundabout in our morning commute forever. It joins five heavily used roadways. It used to be a rotary, which supposedly meant that to enter the circle it was alternating car for car. …
Against everyone's wishes they decided to convert it to a roundabout, changing the entrance angles and making the circle larger. The new rules were you can not enter the circle if a car is coming towards you, pretty much a yield sign…
Against everyone's wishes they decided to convert it to a roundabout, changing the entrance angles and making the circle larger. The new rules were you can not enter the circle if a car is coming towards you, pretty much a yield sign…
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The word roundabout dates from early twentieth century England.
In U.S. dictionaries the terms roundabout, traffic circle, road circle and rotary are synonyms. The U.S. Department of Transportation adopted the term modern roundabout to distinguish those that require entering drivers to give way to others. This article follows that convention and refers to other types as traffic circles or rotaries. Many old traffic circles remain in the northeastern US. Some modern roundabouts are elongated to encompass additional streets, but traffic always flows in a loop.
New York state terms its modern roundabouts traffic circles. In Massachusetts older circular intersections are called rotaries and the state enforces that restriction.The term traffic circle is not used in the United Kingdom, where most circular junctions meet the technical criteria for modern roundabouts.
In U.S. dictionaries the terms roundabout, traffic circle, road circle and rotary are synonyms. The U.S. Department of Transportation adopted the term modern roundabout to distinguish those that require entering drivers to give way to others. This article follows that convention and refers to other types as traffic circles or rotaries. Many old traffic circles remain in the northeastern US. Some modern roundabouts are elongated to encompass additional streets, but traffic always flows in a loop.
New York state terms its modern roundabouts traffic circles. In Massachusetts older circular intersections are called rotaries and the state enforces that restriction.The term traffic circle is not used in the United Kingdom, where most circular junctions meet the technical criteria for modern roundabouts.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 09-02-14 at 06:10 AM.
#58
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I think the reason they used the name change was more to get people, who used the rotary for over 50 years, to think differently about how the new circle would work. Turn based vs yield based. I thought the change would be a nightmare but it really works better with the changes. I would imagine that some of the name thing came from Europe where they call their circles roundabouts. If you've been watching any of the tours they really are roundabout focused over there. In Halifax here we are starting to implement more and more roundabouts despite initial skepticism. I have become a fan really on the bike as the with the turn based cars get much closer to each other then the yield based system.
Ever sit at a red light with no traffic, especially if there are flashing green arrows and other delays, sometimes a roundabout would be nice.
.
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There's quite a few here in northern Nevada and they usually work well. Some of them are designed with an outer ring for pedestrians and an inner ring for cars. It's a bit strange when you first use it but you get used to it.
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I have one traffic circle or as they call them in Massachusetts "rotary" that I include in a regular ride. I'm glad it's not part of a daily commute though. Fortunately I can stay on the right side and exit after passing just 2 exits. Some days I gauge the traffic better than others, but really no matter what you think, the event will take it's own course every time. I'll try to post 2 vids one facing forward and one facing back for reference.
ACTP0011 - YouTube
concord rotary looking back ACTP0017 - YouTube
ACTP0011 - YouTube
concord rotary looking back ACTP0017 - YouTube
#61
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[QUOTE]Halifax is a great city - my daughter is studying there at Kings - love everything about Halifax. Based on my visits, the drivers are just incredibly courteous.
'Turn-based' is a new one for me - I fancy it works in friendly/polite towns like Halifax.
I grew up in UK a long time ago, and can relate to the 'yield-based' concept as the rule was effectively the same (traffic already on the roundabout had right-of-way). In contrast, I was under the impression that most of Europe had the opposite rule, namely the traffic on the roundabout had to yield to the traffic wanting to enter the roundabout
I agree, in the right circumstances roundabouts are much better IMHO than stop lights (or the ever-increasing number of all-way-stop junctions that my home town has a penchant for). [The 'much better' refers to traffic generally - I have no real experience of biking through a roundabout, does not seem to be a comfortable proposition.]
However, as traffic increases eventually roundabouts cease functioning effectively. Unless traffic on the roundabout has right-of-way (the old UK system) then the roundabout can seize up solid. But in the UK when the traffic got heavy enough going in one direction, it became impossible for the 'cross-flow' traffic to advance onto the roundabout so they could be stuck unable to continue their journey for very long periods. Various approaches have been taken to address the challenge in England, but that is not really germain to this thread.
I wonder how long before Halifax faces this challenge ?
Turn based vs yield based.
I grew up in UK a long time ago, and can relate to the 'yield-based' concept as the rule was effectively the same (traffic already on the roundabout had right-of-way). In contrast, I was under the impression that most of Europe had the opposite rule, namely the traffic on the roundabout had to yield to the traffic wanting to enter the roundabout
Ever sit at a red light with no traffic, especially if there are flashing green arrows and other delays, sometimes a roundabout would be nice.
However, as traffic increases eventually roundabouts cease functioning effectively. Unless traffic on the roundabout has right-of-way (the old UK system) then the roundabout can seize up solid. But in the UK when the traffic got heavy enough going in one direction, it became impossible for the 'cross-flow' traffic to advance onto the roundabout so they could be stuck unable to continue their journey for very long periods. Various approaches have been taken to address the challenge in England, but that is not really germain to this thread.
I wonder how long before Halifax faces this challenge ?
#64
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We all have different priorities. I understand the sentiment since shoulders heal but a vintage bike is gone forever.
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Planners here have "gotten religion" about roundabouts and at least a dozen have been built within a few miles of my house. I've gotten accustomed to them now; the most important thing I've found is to "take the whole lane" when entering the roundabout to avoid being run off the road by an inattentive driver turning directly in your path.
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Me too. I pull 53 footers, sometimes in pairs, although I don't go where there are traffic circles with doubles, but even with a single, staying in one lane throughout the circle is physically impossible.
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-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 09-26-14 at 05:46 AM.
#69
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Roundabouts are almost impossible to make ADA-compliant (Americans with Disabilities Act.) In spite of that, they just put one up in downtown Lansing a few years ago. Peds have the right of way in all 4 directions. Cars must stop before the crosswalks, then when it's clear they pull up to the circle where they have to stop again for circle traffic. Then after negotiating their way into the circle and to their exit, they must stop again for more pedestrians. While they're waiting the second time for pedestrians, everyone else in the circle needs to stop and wait for them (only one lane.) Much worse than a light!
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Traffic circles serve two purposes for road designers. I suspect that the main reason they're becoming popular is they eliminate the classic turn hazard of 4 corner intersections. Also smaller circles on city and suburban streets tend to slow traffic since they're something of a steering challenge. They certainly reduce the number of cars racing to beat cross traffic. In both respects, I like them as a cyclist since they tend to act as equalizers, and protect me from cross traffic.
OTOH- as the radius grows larger, and tangential ramps are included, the reverse happens. They become drivable at higher speed, and many motorists treat them like expressway lanes. I encounter a variety of circles (or whatever you want to call them) and have mixed feelings depending on the size. They're especially bad if they include an expressway off ramp, since drivers don't think they're on city streets yet.
The worst are the very large multi-road roundabouts like those in the UK, some of which have large wooded islands, which drivers take at full speed.
OTOH- as the radius grows larger, and tangential ramps are included, the reverse happens. They become drivable at higher speed, and many motorists treat them like expressway lanes. I encounter a variety of circles (or whatever you want to call them) and have mixed feelings depending on the size. They're especially bad if they include an expressway off ramp, since drivers don't think they're on city streets yet.
The worst are the very large multi-road roundabouts like those in the UK, some of which have large wooded islands, which drivers take at full speed.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#71
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A roundabout without a statue or a fountain in the middle is like a church without a cross on the steeple or a cemetery without headstones. There's just something missing. Incomplete.
Last edited by volosong; 09-26-14 at 03:29 PM.
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human behavior in rotaries is interesting. I think ppl get anxious because they are unsure how to share a roadway. so some choose to go FASTER at ridiculous speeds thinking it will solve their fears by forcing everyone to just yield to them. a rotary is most efficient when everyone travels at a safe and reasonable speed allowing others incl themselves to enter and exit. the crazies that just floor it and cross traffic from inside to outside and blow their horn at everyone else, just makes the situation dangerous. when I drive through rotaries I use my directional so ppl know what my intentions are. while so many others do not and then blow their horn because God forbid someone else wants to use the rotary the same they are. I feel relatively safe on a bike in that particular rotary though because I stay on the outside and wear bright colors and use strobes and signal. I'm slow enough that cars can usually gauge what;s happening and either scoot in front of me and cross to exit or slow to allow me to continue as they divert behind me to exit. approaching the westbound traffic they also can pretty easily gauge my speed so that they can enter or wait. as a bonus I think the westbound traffic takes advantage that the rotary traffic slows due to my inclusion and that allows them easier access to enter. I enter from the prison rd coming from West Concord
#73
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As alluded to above, there are major differences between roundabouts, rotaries, traffic circles, and other similar designs. They should not be confused. To be a roundabout traffic approaching the roundabout must ALWAYS YIELD to traffic in the roundabout. Note that yield does NOT mean stop so you only stop if necessary. There can be no traffic controls (signals, etc) within a roundabout. Entering lanes s/b force deflected.
If designed properly they can handle quite high traffic volumes (I think around 50,000 AADT) very efficiently and safely.
They are quite horrible for vehicular cycling and it is not at all unusual for a driver who is looking for cars in the roundabout to miss a bicycle rider or for cars within to not see them. They are (or can be if designed properly) quite safe for normal bicycle riders, pedestrians, and disabled. Here is a good article on that: A view from the cycle path: roundabouts
Having spent considerable time driving in both Europe and the U.S. I am a huge fan of roundabouts (and not a fan of rotaries or traffic circles). I am also a bigger fan of properly designed Dutch style segregated bicycle/disabled infrastructure.
If designed properly they can handle quite high traffic volumes (I think around 50,000 AADT) very efficiently and safely.
They are quite horrible for vehicular cycling and it is not at all unusual for a driver who is looking for cars in the roundabout to miss a bicycle rider or for cars within to not see them. They are (or can be if designed properly) quite safe for normal bicycle riders, pedestrians, and disabled. Here is a good article on that: A view from the cycle path: roundabouts
Having spent considerable time driving in both Europe and the U.S. I am a huge fan of roundabouts (and not a fan of rotaries or traffic circles). I am also a bigger fan of properly designed Dutch style segregated bicycle/disabled infrastructure.
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wow, awesome article, thanks for sharing. I look forward to reading it when I'm not at work!
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