dbg

I need to be able to straighten up and stretch on long rides to help keep my back loose (chronic lumbar facet issues and other things mostly comfort related) --so no-hand-ability is very important to me. I have built up and tested out over a dozen candidate bikes for my light touring and find it difficult to predict ahead of time which styles/types will be easy to no-hand --or even what the key elements are that make a bike more no-hand-able. I am meticulous about properly functioning headsets and wheel bearings. But I seem to have to stumble onto builds that are very easy to no-hand.

I mostly prefer light touring (hotels) and carry minimal stuff (except essential tools and parts -which can get a little heavy). If I'm unsupported I'm carrying minimal clothing. Clearly, loading down a touring bike (especially front end) throws no-handing into unpredictable territory.

Some observations:
1) My favorite workout bike (eighties Raleigh Technium built into single-speed) is so easy to no-hand that I can almost coast to a stop while no-handing.
2) My expensive CF superlight (2004 Trek 5900) is easy to no hand but gets a little twitchy at very low speeds.
3) My long time favorite light tourer (2000 Lemond BA) was never "easy" to no hand but doable if I was going fast enough. I converted it to 650B (38's) and lowered trial with new fork (experiment) and it got much harder (impossible basically) to no hand.
4) My commuter and other MTB frames I've built were very difficult to no-hand (not a big problem since I wouldn"t necessarily need no-hands while commuting or single-track'ing)
5) I picked up another used Lemond frame (2000 Zurich) as a candidate for new favorite light tourer and the first test (with 650B) and standard fork is that it is very easy to no-hand --almost as good as my single speed.
6) Two MTB's built up as tourers (26" wheels, road drops, high trail, etc) are both not very easy to no hand.

The only observation that seems to work most of the time is that bigger tires (mtb 26's, and the conversion to 650B 38's) make it harder to no hand. Hmmm. Not enough data yet to conclude on that one.

Any experience out there on what factors you have discovered contribute to no-hand-ability?

qcpmsame 

Modern bicycles have straighter forks, less trail in the design and most of the frame geometries have tight head tubes further making them twitchy. Add in the narrower tires it gets tricky. I'd hope some of the racer forum members from here can help out, no handing is pretty much mandatory for them when its drink and eats time.

Best of luck with the hands free riding.

Bill

Garfield Cat

Body positioning.

On a road bike, there is the tendency to lean forward. But try this: lean backwards just slightly. Or experiment from straight vertical to going backwards a little at a time while you are riding "no hands". It also relaxes the back.

Once I stabilize with no hands, I lean backwards for a while. It just feels good on the back.

John E

Kid rides around the block several times. When he passes his own house after the first lap, he proudly says, "Look ma -- no feet." Next time around it is "Look ma -- no hands!" The third time, "Look ma -- no teeth." The book about the rise and fall of the Schwinn empire is well-named "No Hands."

Safe no-hands riding requires a bike with a very smoothly operating headset, true rims, and precise rear wheel dish. It also requires coordination and skill on the part of the rider (this is where I fall -- so to speak -- well short of the requirement), and certain bike-rider combinations do work better than others. (You do not want the dreaded oscillation setting in.)

Great tip by Garfield Cat -- watch the Tour de France racers when they ride no-hands.

[Shamelessly off topic. Garfield -- I grew up in west Los Angeles and returned there for college (UCLA), but I spent my four high school years in Huntington Beach -- freshman year at old Huntington High, the other three at Marina.]

Jinkster

Very interesting topic and it certainly intrigues me because back in my younger days ( about 3 decades ago) I used to pedal a 27 mile loop out too the island and back daily and many times rode all day with a couple of friends who were just as psychotic as me where we'd travel all around the Palm Beach area all day long riding an unknown amount of miles which I'm certain was 3-4 times my normal 27 mile loop and when I got fatigued and or weary of being on the bars?...hand-less straight up I went...I also remember that I would leave my arms and hands dangle to shake them out and relax them but then I would also place them mid-thigh and press down on my thighs effectively pedaling using both legs an both arms (to a degree) which actually helped me keep up with my buds and continue to pile on the miles but I can't ever recall experiencing any "twitchy problems" from the bike which was a Centurion Ironman model.

I know there's a ton of validity (from setting up racing suspension on sport bikes) that qcpmsame pointing out that fork rake/trail can have a tremendous effect regarding stability and control but where my mind goes with this is also taking "The Gyroscopic Effect" into account...where I would think any given bike to be less stable with a smaller diameter and/or lighter wheel and more stable with a larger diameter and/or heavier wheel.

I also believe Garfield Cats commentary regarding getting your body weight moved more rearward is a very strong point as well as this takes weight off the front wheel and lessens the effect and amplification of how the front wheel reacts while encountering slight yet continuous road/surface imperfections.

And just yesterday I spent a couple hours (yes I'm that obsessive) wearing the threads of my seat post clamp out making continual, yet miniscule adjustments to my seat height on my Giant OCR3 and actually used "Handless Riding" as a means of evaluating the final tuning and dialing in of my seat height judging by that as I got it more right?...the bike became more stable while pedaling with no hands....which in turn told me "my hips were at zero rock" and far more stabilized...and got it too the point that it rides and tracks like it's on rails as my hands leave the bars and I go straight up while maintaining pedal speed....and I feel this helped me dial in my seat height too...spot-on.

Hope that helps and L8R, Bill.

Kai Winters

Trail, angles, head set, etc. are all partly responsible for "easy" no hands riding.
Some bikes, as you relate, are just "twitchier" than others.

Also being relaxed and seated a bit back, as has been said, is also important...over correcting is the biggest problem...we wind up veering a lot more than planned lol.

Other than my old Colnago...eighties model with a fast, twitchy front end...I've preferred a more relaxed geometry.

NOS88

I'll echo a portion of John E's post. I've found via first hand experience that rim straightness has to be only a little off to make a bike I could ride easly with no hands next to impossible. Additionally, changing tires on another bike improved it's ability to be ridden no hands.

dbg

It's not style. I'm very good at no-handing. I'm also meticulous on mechanical stuff, and build wheels, etc. I can usually manage to get almost any bike to no-hand. My observation is that some are very difficult and require a lot of balance, posture shifting, and extreme diligence. Those are not comfortable to no-hand, don't give much relief on a long ride (too much effort to no-hand), and are a little dangerous when you are well fatigued. But other bikes are an almost effortless no-hand experience.

Barrettscv 

+1

I'll ride no-handed to eat and drink while on the bike. Usually just a banana and trail mix.




I've used several bikes with aggressive headset angles and fork geometries. If the bike is difficult to ride no-handed, I won't keep it for long.

I've had bikes that had headset issues that once repaired handled well no-handed. Frame alignment can also cause issues while riding no-handed, these bikes can pull to one side.

koolerb

Really interesting question. I used to ride no handed without even thinking about it when I was a kid. Now I'm a little hesitant on my road bike but I know its something I need to be able to do so have been practicing a little. Coasting no-handed is easy, but as soon as I start pedaling I'm wobbling all over the place. Per Jinkster's post now I'm wondering if my seat heath is off.

osco53

Dude ! Where you been ?

Get a recumbent...

dbg

Oh I've been there. On a bent I had the opposite problem --what to DO with my hands (grab a beer, look around for the TV remote, ...)

dbg

Interesting. I'm going to swap some tires around and see if no-hand difficulty seems to follow any specific tires.

donheff

Interesting. I no-hand frequently to give my back a stretch and relax a bit. I too have noticed that different bikes handle quite differently. My sport touring bike and my cyclocross both respond well to a slight backward lean as suggested by GC. On the cyclocross it also requires a slight lean to the left to balance things out. My new custom sport touring bike has extended rake for comfort and tracking and it is more stable while no-handing. I was surprised that you find larger wheels to be less stable. I vaguely remember reading (probably on a thread here) that the bigger and heavier the wheel the more pronounced the gyroscopic effect and, thus, the more resistant to turning on it's access which should increase no-handing stability.

dbg

Agree. And yet my experiences and observations seem to flop all over the place (subtle pun there).

Anybody tried no-handing on those huge tire Pugsley bikes?

[one more thought: My super easy no-hander (SS) has only brake cables. Others have brake AND shifter cables/housings curving all around/near the head tube. Building up the new frame last night --it occurred to me that cable/housing tension might be subtly pushing the handlebars one direction or another]

linnefaulk

I always thought it was because I was older and fatter. I like your reasoning better.

berner

I don't have an answer to what makes for stable steering but do have some observations. Many children's bikes can be steered no hands at slow speeds. Motorcycles all have very stable steering and can be turned in just about their own length. My own bike can now be ridden no hands after fixing a misalignment problem but pedaling no hands does not feel stable. My impression is that configurations that have strong wheel flop are not stable and that trail effects wheel flop more than anything else.

Darth Lefty 

Barrettscv 

I've ridden those and they are highly unstable. You usually see riders with short skis on there feet, just to keep from falling over. The skis have claws attached to the back edge as a feeble attempt at braking.

fietsbob

Tried to measure the Trail Dimension, on the ground?

wphamilton

This question hasn't been settled yet as far as engineering and theory is concerned. Everything mentioned may contribute, but looking at the geometry and components and determining the degree of self-stability - I don't think it's feasible other unless the bike in question is a copy of another with known stability.

ModeratedUser150120149

OK, y'all have covered how to select the bike. How about how to learn to ride no-handed? Especially, without doing excessive damage to the body while learning.

dbg

I think the easiest way to learn is to first try it going down a hill. Get used to the feeling and figure out how to drift side to side by leaning slightly. Then try pedaling. Eventually it gets easy (assuming the bike tracks nice and straight).

ModeratedUser150120149

Ahhhh....so THAT is my problem. My bike doesn't track straight.

rm -rf

On bikes that were hard to ride no-handed, I had the best results by shifting to a smaller cog and pedaling at a low cadence. It was harder to go no-handed if I was coasting the bike.