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Hi all, I've just recently been trying to get into road biking after riding mountain bikes for a long time and then taking a pretty big break from riding in general. It's the typical story: I'm getting a bit older and need to find low-impact and fun ways to try to stay in shape!

I got a really good price on a Novara Strada bike (2016 model) from REI, knowing that despite all the research I did before buying it, I wanted to have the option of returning it in case it turned out to be the wrong bike for me (but it'd be nice not to have to exercise that option). The bike is a size small which on paper corresponds to my height; I tried the next size up and it was way too large. It seems an unfortunate side effect of REI's non-hardcore approach to making bikes that there's a pretty big gap between each size in their various Novara-branded bikes, but it's somewhat understandable.

Aaanyway, the upshot is that I'm concerned the bike might be a bit small. I've attached a couple pics -- unfortunately not in motion, but leaned against a wall -- and I've got the bike set up so it already has a longer (110mm) stem and a setback (25mm) seat post with the seat pushed back pretty far. The seat height is such that I have heels barely touching pedals at full extension, with shoes on. Riding it around for a few 5-mile loops, I haven't experienced any big-deal knee or arm pain so far but there does seem to be some weight on the arms that lessens if I slide back off the end of the seat a bit, but there's not really much room to move the seat back anymore with the current setup. I feel I might be cramped in the cockpit but frankly I don't have much to compare to as I've only ever ridden dirt before. (That explains the shoes, obviously!)

This is the bike: https://www.rei.com/product/875001/n...a-5d-bike-2016

I'm 5'5" barefoot with 28" biking inseam (shortish legs longish torso, I'm told). Not that it's super important (?) but with the current setup I'm about 1-2cm forward of KOPS. I punched my body measurements into the CompetitiveCyclist fit thingy and my bike comes up short about 1-2cm on most of the bike measurements for the "competitive" (most compact) fit given by that site.

Anyone have thoughts on the bike fit? Thanks guys!

(Edit: fixed the pics' size)

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(Edit: deleted this post, moved the pic that was here into my original post. Thanks for any input, everyone!)

tangerineowl

Have you measured your current setup against these CC measurements (Using the 'Race', and/or 'Merckx' fit, type only):-
1. saddle setback from BB (horizontal measurement from BB to saddle nose).
2. BB to saddle (BB to top of saddle, in a direct line)
2. saddle to bar (nose of saddle, to top of bars (where stem meets the bar)

??

Phil_gretz

...from the competitive cyclist output to that bike's measurements. Is the range of possible adjustments in line with the calculations?

Phil_gretz

...deleted, accidentally double posted.


OP, that bike looks too small for you. To my eye, anyway...

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Thanks for the replies, guys!

@tangerineowl, Assuming I did the CC measurements correctly, my seat setback and saddle-to-bar are short of CC's "competitive" suggestions by about 1-2cm but it'd be difficult to get it closer without buying an even more setback seat post than the one I got (which already has 25mm of setback), and maybe an even longer stem. The other, longer fits aren't close enough to try. (The bb-to-saddle matches since it's matched to my leg length.)

@Phil_gretz, do you mind pointing out some of the things you see that say the bike is too small? It does sound like this may be the case...

deapee

Definitely not too small.

In the first pic, it looks perfect...maybe 10mm TOO LONG of a stem. You could either A) get a 10mm shorter stem B) move your saddle forward 10mm since you appear behind KOPS C) leave it how it is, just realize you probably want a bit of a bend in your elbows when on the hoods. Your shoulder looks to be exactly at 45 degrees, so that'll put you leaned over a bit more too.

In the second pic, it fits great. I can't get onto the drops without my knees coming up past my elbows. Like mentioned, your saddle is a bit back, like 10mm behind KOPS (since you measure from the bottom of the patella).

Just went back and re-read your original post ... essentially everything you changed, I'd change back. If you want a true analysis, you're going to have to put it on a trainer so we can see you pedaling at a normal output around 80 cadence...and multiple hand positions, hoods, drops, and hoods with forearms parallel to ground.

EDIT: also realize that you actually look very flexible and you look like your body was made to ride a bike. If you do lower your stem on those spacers, that effectively lengthens the reach...I mean if your body can handle it, I'd almost reduce those spacers by half, put the original stem back on, and see how that felt. I think your saddle is fine, just at the aft-end of being fine though.

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@deapee Thanks for your reply! As for KOPS, I'm definitely 1cm or so forward of it, although it's slightly harder to tell in the photos. This is based on observing during rides (looking down instead of at traffic haha), but I don't know how important that is. Thanks for the observation about arms vs knees, that was one of the things I was most concerned about...

ypsetihw

this doesn't look too small for you at all.

AnthonyG

The bike doesn't look too small to me either. Yes, its on the smaller, more aggressive side but not TOO small. If you are in fact in front of KOPS then the first thing I would do before changing anything else is move the saddle back to KOPS and see how it feels and performs then.

Its definitely within the envelope of some minor adjustments.

Anthony

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@AnthonyG, thanks for the input! With my current seatpost that has 25mm setback, there's only about 5mm further that I can push the seat back (and the seat already has quite a bit of rail compared to other seats I've seen), so would you say a post with more setback is needed?

tangerineowl

KOPS is only a guide from which to fine tune.

I would take the bike out on the road, get up to speed.
Get in the drops for a bit, then lift your hands up slightly off the bars.
If you feel yourself tilting forward, then stop. Move your seat back 4/5mm, then repeat the same action, until you find you are just on that edge of balance.

If you find that you need to move your seat further back than what your current post allows, then chase down a cheap post with more setback.
Either way, with the position of your seat as it currently is, it sounds like you need to track down a more offset post.

As for your reach to the bars (when in the drops):-
Once you get your saddle fore-aft sorted, I'd look at getting perhaps a stem which is 10mm longer than on the bike.
Again, you can pickup cheap stems, until you get the fit dialled in.

As you get used to the position on the bike, you may find yourself wanting to get more stretched out over time.

Once your reach to the bars is sorted, you can play around with the drop by removing spacers / rotating the bars a bit etc.

AnthonyG

Assuming that you are in front of KOPS, then yes, you should try a seatpost with more setback. I'm not a fan of current trends in frame geometry. 99% of small frames have steep seat tube angles of 74 Degrees or steeper (bigger number). Short riders don't need steep seat tube angles and if anything they need more relaxed seat tube angles. Fitting a setback seat post will only restore the geometry to a position it should have been in in the first place.

Anthony

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@tangerineowl, thanks for the tips, I'll try them. When you say tilting forward, do you mean I should be able to lift my hands off the bars momentarily before falling back on them? Or should I actually be able to ride hands-off for a few seconds? I guess I'll be able to feel it out...

@AnthonyG, thanks for the feedback. Yeah if you look at the size specs for the bike, it's listed as having a 75deg seat tube! So a minor side effect is that the seat looks like it's hovering over the back wheel with hardly any seatpost supporting it...

AnthonyG

A 75 degree seat tube angle is BONKERS! Its got nothing to do with good fit. The 75 degree angle is there so that the manufacturer can list a shorter top tube length on a specification sheet. Its a scam and its been a scam for SOO long now that the scam has become the new normal.

Buy a seatpost with more setback. Move the saddle back and try again.

Anthony

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It's also got a 71deg head tube, almost as slack as my trail MTB. Maybe I should exchange the bike on general principle lol!

AnthonyG

Unfortunately this is another trick to make the top tube length shorter on paper as well as reducing the likelihood of pedal overlap. Unfortunately everyone uses the same tricks. There isn't a manufacturer I can recommend. My bike is custom but even going custom is a crap shoot.

What's the right answer? Smaller wheels on small frames with shorter cranks as well.

Anthony

tangerineowl

hands-off for a few secs or so.

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Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I pushed the seat back another 5mm (as far as the current seatpost will let me) and it feels like it's just about there, or close enough for now until I can find a more setback post. Time to ride more!

Carbonfiberboy 

Looks too small to me. In the right photo, your elbows don't clear your knees and they should, up to being 2" in front of your knees. Also your upper arms are not square off your torso in that photo and they should be, second indication of the same thing. In the left photo, your arms are about square off, but only because you have almost no bend in your elbows, and you should have ~15°. Also your back in hunched and it should be straight or almost so. That would create even less of a 90° angle there. So I say it's too small. Being at the max range of adjustment at both ends and still not quite right would say "too small" to me.

AnthonyG

The thing though with modern frame design, the next size up isn't really bigger or should I say the this frame isn't really smaller than the size up.

The difference between the two is a taller head tube on the medium and a 1 degree slacker seat tube angle. Going by the photo's I don't think the head tube height is too low unless you want to be more relaxed. I've already advised to fit a more set back seatpost.

Anthony

Carbonfiberboy 

Really? I would think top tube length would differ by about the same amount as the seat tube as one goes up or down in size. Though I've only owned bikes dimensioned in either inches or cm, no S/M/L frames.

TT length is usually the problem in fitting, as the saddle can go up and down a long way without a problem. For those with short legs, head tube length also can seem a problem if the rider is trying to get low. But stems can fix even that.

AnthonyG

Modern bikes with 700c wheels only "Work" down to medium sized. The "Small" or 48cm, 50cm or even 52cm is always a fudge.

Nominally, when you reduce the top tube length or more accurately the reach you are talking about pulling the front wheel closer to the bottom bracket. You can only do this properly down to 54cm sized bikes. Bellow 54cm they fudge things by steepening the seat tube angle which makes the top tube length shorter on paper but in reality short people need the handlebars pulled back, not the seat pushed forwards. In smaller sizes they also slacken the head tube angle which pushes the front wheel out while shortening the top tube length on paper.

This small frame we are discussing is just the medium frame which has been fiddled. If you really want to do a small frame properly you need smaller wheels along with shorter cranks which is another discussion.

Anthony

Carbonfiberboy 

Well see, that's what's confusing me. I have three 9 or 10-speed 700c frames with horizontal top tubes: a 50cm with a 51.5cm top tube, a 52cm with a 53cm top tube, and a 54cm with a 54cm top tube. I have fitted all these bikes so that my position is very similar between them. I'm a little more upright on the 54 because the headtube is longer and also more upright on the 50 because I'm a little bit scrunched. On the 50, I also can't really get my saddle back far enough because the seat tube is steeper like you say, and the head tube slacker. The 52 is really my size and I'm lowest and most stretched out on it. I've ridden them all on at least century rides with no problem. I'm a short-legged 5'6.5".

All that said, the TT lengths do vary by ST lengths and thus it could be expected that normal length stems would work well enough for riders of the appropriate size for each of these frame sizes, though the balance of each bike might be slightly different.

The OP may have slightly shorter legs than average for his height and thus a longer torso, which is also my case. Thus I like a bike with a longer top tube and enjoy bikes which are larger than might be usually recommended to me. These have the added benefit of getting the saddle further back and thus better able to balance my long torso. The downside is that my hip angle is more closed and I really can't be fat and ride well. Or maybe that's an upside.

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Thanks for your input, Carbonfiberboy! As I've myself noticed based on AnthonyG's comments, the next size up of this particular bike really does seem to be more or less the same frame with some angle tweaks and a taller head tube. I went and rode it and basically it's just as short a reach with the stock components, just taller (too tall).

I also went and looked at other similar "endurance"-geometry bikes from other brands in my (our, as it seems) size and they all seem this way (very steep seat tubes and slack head tubes, short wheelbases), but you know what the difference is between my bike and those? They all ship with very setback seat posts! Which is exactly to AnthonyG's point about the seat post just putting the seat back where it should have been to begin with. (My particular bike came with a completely useless straight post and 90mm stem.) I've not been able to find a small-size compact-style bike from a big-brand company (i.e. the brands I'm familiar with) that actually has a legitimately longer top tube for the height, a task that is trivially easy in the MTB world due to the frame designs.

What I've done now is returned the seatpost used in my pics above, which turned out to be 15mm setback and not the 25mm the catalog stated, and replaced it with another post I actually measured out to have 25mm setback. Now I am very much in KOPS (fwiw), I pass tangerineowl's hands-off test, and the bike feels comfy and sporty! My elbows in tuck position (while riding as well as leaned up against a wall) are now slightly ahead of my knees as well.

All I can say is, thank goodness for REI's and Performance's exchange policies. Now to put on some miles!

Ps: The bike also came with a *terrible* seat, and as a result I discovered that the Fabric Scoop "shallow" I replaced it with is one of the most comfy low-profile seats I've ever used. Also, I know some people will eventually find this thread while searching for info about REI bikes, so I will say that apart from the sizing issues, this seems to be a very nice bike with generally good spec, but you definitely can tell the minor and/or clever ways in which they cut costs. I'll just take it as opportunities for future upgrades :-D