ejewels

Hey All,

I was hoping I could get some help in making a tough decision, so sorry if a long post.

I recently purchased a Giant Defy Advanced 2 in size Medium at closeout for a great price. The LBS I bought it from did a bike scan and quick fitting to make sure it fit. They said I'm good on the Medium so I bought it.

2 days later I used a gift certificate at another bike shop and got a standard fitting done on the bike. After a little more in depth fitting (using the trainer; measuring seat height and angles) They said I could be on either one, but they would recommend the Medium-Large (M/L) size if I were buying from them. For people who don't know Giant sizing... the M in compact geometry is like a 54, where a M/L is like a 56.

I called the original shop I bought it from and they said they'd exchange it if need be for a M/L, but they still think I belong on the M. I only did a body scan with them, though.

Here are my stats without shoes on:

height: 5'9.35"
cycling inseam: 33.25"-33.75" depending on how hard I press up!

Here are the settings/measurements from the fitting on the actual Medium bike:

Saddle Top to BB: 75.4
Saddle Tip to C. of BB: 6.6
Saddle to Stem Drop: 4.3
Saddle Tip to C. HB: 52.2
Fit Kit Saddle Height: 93
Leg angle: 150
Plum Line: Kneeover + 1
Torso to hand angle: 95
Back angle: 50
Arm Bend Angle: 155

So I ask you guys, Do I stay with the medium, or exchange for the M/L. I have some neck issues, and the second fitter took that into consideration saying the saddle to bar drop on the medium is a little much at 4.3 cm. I had a ton of seat post sticking out, too. On Giant's sizing chart, I am squarely on a M, but with my long inseam, I'm more on a M/L. If anyone could help me make a decision, it would be greatly appreciated!

bbbean 

Go ride a few Giants in M and M/L back to back. Keep in mind that if your frame is a little too small, you can add a longer stem and raise the saddle. If it's a little too big, you can opt for a shorter stem and lower the saddle. Ultimately, though, it's like being between shoe sizes - nobody but you can decide what works best.

ejewels

Thanks bbbean. I did ride both sizes and thought the medium felt best reach wise, but I could stand to have the actual drop up a bit so i'm not down so far (this with all spacers used on all bikes). If you look at those numbers I posted, does anything stick out as being too small or a red flag?

And, on a side note... the M looked small with a big amount of seat post. It almost looks too small which is probably one of the reasons I'm second guessing it myself. This is really tough as two reputable bike shops are saying 2 different things.

bbbean 

Note that I'm not a fitter - just a rider. but the only things that would make me change sizes would be comfort or performance. Note that you can also get stems in varying angles, so if you want less of/more of a drop, it's an easy adjustment and relatively inexpensive. In my experience, most shops will swap stems out with you if you bought the bike there. My shop swapped stems with me 3 times before I hit just the right angle and length.

BB

exmechanic89

How much is a 'ton of seatpost'?

Sy Reene

+1. I'm sure the LBS that sold you the bike would be much happier swapping stems for you rather than the entire bike. Also you mentioned neck pain due to the drop; I guess this begs the question whether or not you're new to road bike riding? Frequently new riders start with neck/shoulder pain until their body adjusts. If you've been riding in such a position previously then ignore this suggestion.

Only other possible swaps are the bars; if you want more reach, you can get bars that have this versus longer stems. If the drops are too low relative to seat height, some bars have less of a drop than others, etc..

ejewels

Thanks guys. Its funny I said "I heard its recommended to go for the smaller size" and was instantly told how wrong that is. They said a good fitter won't make you go for the smaller size. Not sure the validity of that.

is 4.3cm of drop too much? And yes, I'm fairly new to road riding. And as far as seatpost... the bike is compact geo so I think it looks worse than it is. I'd say a good 9-10 inches out she had it at... maybe more.

I'm really starting to think that height wise, I fit the medium perfect. But having a long inseam makes the M/L better. Ugh wish I was a size thats easy to fit.

ejewels

In terms of seat post showing... is there a rule where its too much? It wasn't at the minimum insertion line, but since its compact sloping geo it looked like a lot. The fitter said as long as you're not at the min insertion point its ok. Just looks a little off.

exmechanic89

Yeah a compact (modern) frame will definitely seem like there's a lot of seat post sticking out compared to a level top tube (vintage) style frame. It sounds like both sizes wil fit you, so I'd say don't overthink it.

no1mad 

Moved from General Cycling.

ejewels

Is it common for one shop the suggest one size, and another shop a different size? The second shop who fitted me closer said its not like the medium is definitely too small, more that they'd put me in a M/L in their opinion. They didn't like the fact I had neck issues and have saddle to bar drop like I did. Granted this wasn't the pro fitter at the shop, but someone who does the basic fits.

tangerineowl

I'm the same height as you, but with a 34" inseam.
For me, the M/L was far too long in the reach dept; however the stack height was ok.

To get the fit you're looking for, you're
1. either going to have to shorten the stem on the 56, to move back the reach to the bars.
(with the 56, you've got the stack height you're chasing).
or 2. going to have to use, say, 30mm of spacers below the stem on the 54, plus getting a stem whose angle (flip the stem which is currently on the bike?) is pointed upwards, to get you the height (saddle-to-bar drop) you are chasing i.e. to get a similar height to the 56.

Note also, the 420mm bars have an 80mm reach / the 440mm bars: 85 reach.
(There are alu 70mm reach bars/short drop, out there for a good price).

4.5mm is not too much drop. It all depends on what position you want, and are comfortable with.
As you're fairly new to road riding, it will take a while for your body to adjust to this position. That was my experience when I purchased my first road bike.

Re the amount of seat post showing; as long as you are not beyond the min. insert point, you're good.
Ignore how it looks. You want a bike with a comfortable reach.

ejewels

thanks man. So you have a defy or just tried them? 4.5 cm is the drop (not mm) but I'm assuming you meant that. I was measured with all of the stock spacers on so I'm assuming that's enough?

tangerineowl

Don't have a Defy. Test rode one for 2 hours.
Reach was too long for me, even on the M size. (I read up at the time, the bar reach on that model).

The bike I do have (sidebar); I've had to shorten the stem to 80mm.
I do know what the next bike I get will be (I need a short reach/tall stack frame), but that will be in a year or so, when I've saved up.

Yeah, with the 54 and 30mm of spacers (plus an angled-up stem), you should be getting the height (min. drop to bars) you are chasing.
You will need to play around with that, with time on the bike.

ejewels

So sounds like the drop isn't bad, but slightly aggressive for a newer rider and an angled stem would help. What's funny is going by the size chart I'm actually on a M.

tangerineowl

The thing with the majority of size charts is they don't take into account your inseam. Daft.

ejewels

Well that's the thing, the size chart takes height and inseam into account. Medium goes all the way up to 5'11 and 33" inseam. So me being closer to 34" inseam just makes that drop a little higher I guess.

AnthonyG

There is a modern trend in fitting for small frames with lots of seatpost showing and big drops from the seat to the handlebars. Older fitting standards would have had you on a larger frame with a smaller drop from the saddle to the bars. Neither is right or wrong. If you feel more comfortable on the bigger bike then get the bigger bike. I think the idea is that the smaller frame puts you in a more aerodynamic position yet if this more aero position is less comfortable and you come to dread riding you bike then its a bad idea.

Anthony

ejewels

Thanks Anthony. The second shop did seem a little old school and stuck in their ways claiming that going smaller is not best when between sizes. I will say the reach on the medium was more comfortable.

ejewels

I should also ask, is there a benefit to going either way? My primary focus is fitness and challenging myself, and I don't plan on racing.

AnthonyG

Nominally, most people find larger frames more comfortable to ride long distance while smaller frames are used these days by riders looking for better performance but honestly its up to how you feel.

Reaching lower but shorter vs higher but longer are two different ways to achieve a similar end. With the larger frame with less drop you can fit a shorter stem which reduces the reach while having higher bars.

I would be inclined to put you on the bigger frame if your not racing.

The enlightening question here is, Do you feel that you have too much weight on your hands and shoulders with the smaller bike? If you don't have too much weight on your hands and shoulders then its just fine. A riser stem as others have suggested is another simple solution to the problem, if it is a problem of raising the bars.

Anthony

ejewels

Ok thanks. I don't feel too much weight. Shouid the giant sizing chart have any weight on this? I am 5'9.25" and the M/L starts at 5'11".

AnthonyG

I don't put that much weight on Manufacturer sizing charts.

I don't think that you need to change sizes either at this point. You rode both bikes so you can say better than most.

What are you trying to achieve here? What do you perceive to be the issues or problems?

Anthony

ejewels

Well the only reason I'm questioning it, is because the fit I got yesterday said if they were selling me a bike, they'd choose M/L. This was due mostly to the drop and me talking about neck issues. The saddle setback was also all the way back on the rails.(This fit was not done by their pro fitter, but more a sales person who knows basic fit and does their "basic" fit package. They told me if I could wait a week I could get fitted on their fit bike with the certified pro fitter).

I think when it comes down to it:
Medium fits everything but with a more aggressive drop (4.3cm). I have beginner neck issues that has been chronic, so its a concern, I guess.

M/L is too big reach-wise, and even feels a lot larger, but the stack and handlebar height is good in stock form.

I should also note the first bike store I bought from would charge me $210 to swap bikes as they have policies.

ejewels

Oh, and what do you guys think from the LBS saying "you read a lot of false info on the forums. The pros DO NOT ride bikes that are too small, they are proper size for them. It is false info to size down if you're in between sizes".