New Rider, LONG search for proper fit, needs help
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
New Rider, LONG search for proper fit, needs help
Hi everyone,
First, thanks for all the great knowledge here. I've been reading for a couple of months, but posting for the first time – as I think I now need to ask some specific questions.
My Info
41, male, 145lbs, 5'10", 31.25" inseam, long torso and short arms, fairly fit, very flexible, in good cardio shape.
Just started riding this summer. I'm on the west coast for the summer but home is on the east coast, so there's no really *local* bike shop for me. I bought a bike in early July and have ridden about 500 miles on it since then. When I bought that bike I went on at least a dozen test rides at half a dozen shops, and I read everything in the world that I could about fit. Very few of those shops were very thorough about fitting me, even though I tried to make that a real emphasis.
My long torso means I need a longer effective TT length then might be called for given my height, but I have to be careful, given my short legs, to avoid frames that I simply can't stand over (max standover for me is about 80cm, but with steep sloping top tubes it's usually possible to standover frames 'rated' at a lager number). In addition, I am finding that my short arms mean that it's easy for me, when I finally get forward over the bars, to be TOO FAR forward, with my head out in front of the bars looking down at the wheel (with the hub well in front of the bars).
Since I was not sure about the fit or the info I was getting, I decided to buy a cheaper bike and ride for a month and then see where I was. Well, it's been a month and I've now logged almost 500 miles. I bought a Giant Defy 2 (2012) in M/L which is a 56cm effective TT length. The bike came with a bunch of spacers on the stem and a 110mm stem at +16 degrees. The bars were a good inch or two above the saddle.
I've checked my saddle position a dozen or more times, I and I think I have it right, at just about 28" from center of BB to top of saddle.
After a month I realized that the bars are far too close to the saddle. My competitive cyclist fit numbers say I should be anything from 518mm to 550mm (depending on type of fit) from nose of saddle to front of bars. On my bike I was at 508. So I took out all the spacers and changed the stem to -10. This gets me to 518mm (saddle to bars). But at this point, it still feels slightly cramped AND it feels like I now have my head way out over the bars – too much weight forward, unbalanced. Looking at my riding position on this bike, I have less than a 90 degree angle at my shoulder sockets and I look to have my chest almost out over the headset. It's as if I'm trying to compensate for the bars being too close.
All of which led me to believe I'd fit better on a 57 to 58 TT frame. So today I rode a 58 (58.2 TT) Roubaix and a 58 (57.4 TT) Madone. The Roubaix had the bars way up, but it still felt MUCH better than my current bike; the saddle to bars length was 521 (20.5"). The bike was REALLY comfortable and confident. I could just BARELY stand over it, but it was doable. The Madone was THE first bike I've ridden where I finally felt stretched out, and it felt really good. Despite a slightly shorter TT length, the madone did NOT have the bars jacked up (maybe a 2cm drop) and so the saddle to bars length was 533mm (21") right near the center of my fit numbers. This felt different, but I liked it better and think it's a better fit for me. This bike was also EASY to stand over.
So I think this confirms that I need a 57-58cm TT frame.
But this is a challenge, not only for standover, but as I learned on the Madone, also for seat height. The Madone 58 will not allow a seat height lower than 730mm. My seat on my current bike is set at about 712mm (28"), and again, I can't imagine it going higher. If anything I have only a 25 degree bend in my leg, and nowhere near 35 degrees.
2 questions.
1. Does my logic and research seem right to people in terms of my need for a 57-58cm effective top tube?
2. If so, given my seat height of 28" and my max stand-over height of about 31" (stretched to 31.5" for seriously sloping top tubes), what bikes out there should I be looking at?
I realize that custom is one option, but other than that I'm seeing:
Specialized Roubaix 58 = 58.2 TT and 32" standover, but workable
Giant TCR M/L = 57 TT and 31.0" standover
Gunnar Roadie 58 = 57 TT and 31.9 standover (might work, might not)
As I say the Madone seemed like the perfect size for me, but from what I read, you cannot cut the seat mast and at 73cm, that seat is going to be too high for me.
Any advice or suggestions will be much appreciated – thanks!
First, thanks for all the great knowledge here. I've been reading for a couple of months, but posting for the first time – as I think I now need to ask some specific questions.
My Info
41, male, 145lbs, 5'10", 31.25" inseam, long torso and short arms, fairly fit, very flexible, in good cardio shape.
Just started riding this summer. I'm on the west coast for the summer but home is on the east coast, so there's no really *local* bike shop for me. I bought a bike in early July and have ridden about 500 miles on it since then. When I bought that bike I went on at least a dozen test rides at half a dozen shops, and I read everything in the world that I could about fit. Very few of those shops were very thorough about fitting me, even though I tried to make that a real emphasis.
My long torso means I need a longer effective TT length then might be called for given my height, but I have to be careful, given my short legs, to avoid frames that I simply can't stand over (max standover for me is about 80cm, but with steep sloping top tubes it's usually possible to standover frames 'rated' at a lager number). In addition, I am finding that my short arms mean that it's easy for me, when I finally get forward over the bars, to be TOO FAR forward, with my head out in front of the bars looking down at the wheel (with the hub well in front of the bars).
Since I was not sure about the fit or the info I was getting, I decided to buy a cheaper bike and ride for a month and then see where I was. Well, it's been a month and I've now logged almost 500 miles. I bought a Giant Defy 2 (2012) in M/L which is a 56cm effective TT length. The bike came with a bunch of spacers on the stem and a 110mm stem at +16 degrees. The bars were a good inch or two above the saddle.
I've checked my saddle position a dozen or more times, I and I think I have it right, at just about 28" from center of BB to top of saddle.
After a month I realized that the bars are far too close to the saddle. My competitive cyclist fit numbers say I should be anything from 518mm to 550mm (depending on type of fit) from nose of saddle to front of bars. On my bike I was at 508. So I took out all the spacers and changed the stem to -10. This gets me to 518mm (saddle to bars). But at this point, it still feels slightly cramped AND it feels like I now have my head way out over the bars – too much weight forward, unbalanced. Looking at my riding position on this bike, I have less than a 90 degree angle at my shoulder sockets and I look to have my chest almost out over the headset. It's as if I'm trying to compensate for the bars being too close.
All of which led me to believe I'd fit better on a 57 to 58 TT frame. So today I rode a 58 (58.2 TT) Roubaix and a 58 (57.4 TT) Madone. The Roubaix had the bars way up, but it still felt MUCH better than my current bike; the saddle to bars length was 521 (20.5"). The bike was REALLY comfortable and confident. I could just BARELY stand over it, but it was doable. The Madone was THE first bike I've ridden where I finally felt stretched out, and it felt really good. Despite a slightly shorter TT length, the madone did NOT have the bars jacked up (maybe a 2cm drop) and so the saddle to bars length was 533mm (21") right near the center of my fit numbers. This felt different, but I liked it better and think it's a better fit for me. This bike was also EASY to stand over.
So I think this confirms that I need a 57-58cm TT frame.
But this is a challenge, not only for standover, but as I learned on the Madone, also for seat height. The Madone 58 will not allow a seat height lower than 730mm. My seat on my current bike is set at about 712mm (28"), and again, I can't imagine it going higher. If anything I have only a 25 degree bend in my leg, and nowhere near 35 degrees.
2 questions.
1. Does my logic and research seem right to people in terms of my need for a 57-58cm effective top tube?
2. If so, given my seat height of 28" and my max stand-over height of about 31" (stretched to 31.5" for seriously sloping top tubes), what bikes out there should I be looking at?
I realize that custom is one option, but other than that I'm seeing:
Specialized Roubaix 58 = 58.2 TT and 32" standover, but workable
Giant TCR M/L = 57 TT and 31.0" standover
Gunnar Roadie 58 = 57 TT and 31.9 standover (might work, might not)
As I say the Madone seemed like the perfect size for me, but from what I read, you cannot cut the seat mast and at 73cm, that seat is going to be too high for me.
Any advice or suggestions will be much appreciated – thanks!
#2
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII
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Breezer Venturi in M/L size: 570TT, 31.4" standover, 54cm seattube, and at 14cm, the shortest headtube you'll find.
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks, chaadster. It definitely looks like that bike would fit.
But I'm curious: you seem to count the short head tube as plus here. Is that just because you like short head tubes, or because you think a short head tube would fit me better?
I was actually thinking when making the move to a bigger frame, I'd want to stay with a fairly long head tube, because I'm not looking to have a ton of saddle to bar drop. With the bars about level to an inch below the saddle, I feel like I am in a good riding position – much lower and I feel like my weight is too far forward.
I have also tracked down the Felt Z series bikes as having TONS of standover, even on their larger frames.
But I'm curious: you seem to count the short head tube as plus here. Is that just because you like short head tubes, or because you think a short head tube would fit me better?
I was actually thinking when making the move to a bigger frame, I'd want to stay with a fairly long head tube, because I'm not looking to have a ton of saddle to bar drop. With the bars about level to an inch below the saddle, I feel like I am in a good riding position – much lower and I feel like my weight is too far forward.
I have also tracked down the Felt Z series bikes as having TONS of standover, even on their larger frames.
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I finally did Wrench Science's fit calculator. They give me a total reach of 67.82 cm. It seems clear to me then that I'd prefer a 57 or even a 58 TT to a 56, since with a 56 I'll need to have a slammed 120mm stem just to get to the needed reach. On a frame with a 57-58 TT I'll have some flexibility in stem lengths/angles and spacers. This all ties in with what I felt riding longer TT bikes yesterday.
#5
Senior Member
Overall I think your thought process is pretty good! I'm not sure what frame will satisfy your needs, however.
#6
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,367
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII
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Thanks, chaadster. It definitely looks like that bike would fit.
But I'm curious: you seem to count the short head tube as plus here. Is that just because you like short head tubes, or because you think a short head tube would fit me better?
I was actually thinking when making the move to a bigger frame, I'd want to stay with a fairly long head tube, because I'm not looking to have a ton of saddle to bar drop. With the bars about level to an inch below the saddle, I feel like I am in a good riding position – much lower and I feel like my weight is too far forward.
I have also tracked down the Felt Z series bikes as having TONS of standover, even on their larger frames.
But I'm curious: you seem to count the short head tube as plus here. Is that just because you like short head tubes, or because you think a short head tube would fit me better?
I was actually thinking when making the move to a bigger frame, I'd want to stay with a fairly long head tube, because I'm not looking to have a ton of saddle to bar drop. With the bars about level to an inch below the saddle, I feel like I am in a good riding position – much lower and I feel like my weight is too far forward.
I have also tracked down the Felt Z series bikes as having TONS of standover, even on their larger frames.
Some builders, like Rodriguez, do use longer HTs without elevating the front of the TT:
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks, both.
I may find that I like a more aggressive riding position, but I'm sure I need to ride more first. But I do think the sloping top tube, even severely so, may be necessary in my case, since basically the only bikes that have a standover of under 800mm and a TT length of 57-58 are going to have sloping tubes. That venturi Breezer is definitely an exception though, and is an intriguing bike.
I think I'm going to see if I can test ride a breezer and the Felt Z3/Z4. That will give me a better sense of things.
Custom is my other option, I just don't want to start that process until I'm very confident about my fit/geometry. I've actually talked to the R+E folks and they were great. I've also emailed Doug Curtlo, whose prices on custom geometry are so impressive. The other poblem here is that my riding experience is limited to aluminum, and my next bike will almost definitely be carbon or steel, but I've never really ridden either and obviously there is a HUGE difference between them.
thanks again,
I may find that I like a more aggressive riding position, but I'm sure I need to ride more first. But I do think the sloping top tube, even severely so, may be necessary in my case, since basically the only bikes that have a standover of under 800mm and a TT length of 57-58 are going to have sloping tubes. That venturi Breezer is definitely an exception though, and is an intriguing bike.
I think I'm going to see if I can test ride a breezer and the Felt Z3/Z4. That will give me a better sense of things.
Custom is my other option, I just don't want to start that process until I'm very confident about my fit/geometry. I've actually talked to the R+E folks and they were great. I've also emailed Doug Curtlo, whose prices on custom geometry are so impressive. The other poblem here is that my riding experience is limited to aluminum, and my next bike will almost definitely be carbon or steel, but I've never really ridden either and obviously there is a HUGE difference between them.
thanks again,
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I rode the Felt Z3 yesterday. It fit very well – plenty of reach with plenty of standover. And the 17lb carbon bike with all ultegra was a big upgrade from the aluminum/tiagra Giant I'm currently riding...
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Just in case anyone was still following this thread – last night I bought a Soma Smoothie. It's a 58 with a 575mm effective top tube, and completely adequate standover height for me. The frame seems to share a lot, in terms of geometry, with the Rodriguez posted above. I'll be dialing it in and putting some miles on it, while still keeping my eye on that Felt Z3.
#10
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,367
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII
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Just in case anyone was still following this thread – last night I bought a Soma Smoothie. It's a 58 with a 575mm effective top tube, and completely adequate standover height for me. The frame seems to share a lot, in terms of geometry, with the Rodriguez posted above. I'll be dialing it in and putting some miles on it, while still keeping my eye on that Felt Z3.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Actual stand over on this smoothie is definitely less than 31.6". I have plenty of room. The 570TT is at the bottom of my range but reach is good with a 110mm stem. Putting the new stem and narrower bars on now and then hope to get some miles in.