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-   -   FGFS Wheel Pedal/Foot Clearance (http://www.bikeforums.net/fixed-gear-freestyle/851085-fgfs-wheel-pedal-foot-clearance.html)

Armand Navabi 10-07-12 08:26 PM

FGFS Wheel Pedal/Foot Clearance
 
I have a track frame (Windsor The Hour) fixed gear bike that I am in the process of transitioning into a FGFS. The latest thing I did is replace the stock fork for a landing gear fork. The stock fork is a track frame that angles out at the bottom. The landing gear fork is straight. After I replaced the fork, I like the way it feels and looks. Only problem is that now my wheel hits the front of my foot sometimes when I make a sharp turn and I'm not on the balls of my feet. Sometimes I like having my foot more on the center of the pedal.

I am trying to get new pedals. The current pedals have straps and force my foot to be more forward than I need. I think a bigger more BMX-like pedal will allow me to more comfortably have my feet back a little. Then I can get straps and put them on such that it forces me to not bring my feet too far up.

What can I do, if anything, to give me more room between the front wheel and the pedals? Specifically, I wonder if a shorter crank would provide noticeable difference. My cranks are 165mm. First I assumed I wouldn't want to go lower than 160mm, but reading this (http://sheldonbrown.com/cranks.html) made me wonder how short of a crank length I could go with, since I have short legs anyway.

Any other ideas, besides going 650c on the front wheel, which I don't think I would ever do?

Nagrom_ 10-07-12 08:28 PM

You completely changed the geometry of the bike. You removed a fork that had quite a bit of rake, and replaced it with one that has virtually none.

There isn't a quick fix for this.

solipsist716 10-07-12 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armand Navabi (Post 14816959)
I have a strong urge to completely **** my bike up.

ftfy

Also, this should've been posted in the FGFS subforum directly below this one, although I get the feeling you'll get flamed just as badly over there too.

seau grateau 10-07-12 08:40 PM

Get a FGFS frame.

Armand Navabi 10-07-12 08:43 PM

Yeah, I was afraid of that. So it sounds like track frame really is the problem. Any idea of what kind of frame I should look for which would work better, in this respect, with a straight fork?

Cool. Thanks. If you know stuff, here are a couple things that would helpful for me in an response:
- Question above: What kind of geometry would work better with a straight fork?
- One guy I talked to recommended some clipless pedals which force your foot too clip towards the front. That would solve my problem, but I'm not sure I want that on this bike. But it was a helpful suggestion that got me thinking of what I could do the pedals.
- Input on the crank length: 155mm length crazy and make no sense? How much would I feel a 5mm difference from 160mm - 165mm

If don't know, its cool.

Armand Navabi 10-07-12 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solipsist716 (Post 14817020)
ftfy

Also, this should've been posted in the FGFS subforum directly below this one, although I get the feeling you'll get flamed just as badly over there too.

Haha. Yeah. It was my first post. But in that case, I probably just won't post on either forum. Thanks.

solipsist716 10-07-12 08:50 PM

No biggie. I just wouldn't pour money into a project that's effectively doomed from the start, y'know?

You can polish a turd as much as you want, but at the end of the day all you have is an empty can of Mother's and a bunch of feces.

diff 10-08-12 04:52 PM

What is the exact fork you put on your bike? Even though it is straight, it should have an offset which is the exact same as rake.

Overlap is something you are going to have no matter what. Depending how much offset the fork has, you can get another FGFS fork with more offset. Most of those forks have 32mm of offset.

If you are looking for no overlap at all whatsoever, you will need a real FGFS frame and fork with 26 inch wheels. Also some of the 700c FGFS frames have super long top tubes, but they all have some overlap when the wheel is turned around.

Armand Navabi 10-08-12 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diff (Post 14820064)
What is the exact fork you put on your bike? Even though it is straight, it should have an offset which is the exact same as rake.

Overlap is something you are going to have no matter what. Depending how much offset the fork has, you can get another FGFS fork with more offset. Most of those forks have 32mm of offset.

If you are looking for no overlap at all whatsoever, you will need a real FGFS frame and fork with 26 inch wheels. Also some of the 700c FGFS frames have super long top tubes, but they all have some overlap when the wheel is turned around.

I have an SE Landing fork (http://www.danscomp.com/products-RAC...Gear_Fork.html) which has a 29mm offset. Landing gear also makes another fork (http://www.sebikes.com/part.php?id=1876) that has a 36mm offset. That would give me an extra 7mm, which is just about what I need.

I did a measurement, where I put my feet in the straps of the current pedals I have, and then rub the tire on the soles of some white shoes where it overlaps the most, and then measure how far the black mark is from the front of my shoes, and with the wheel forward its about 6.5mm and with it backwards is about 7mm.

I'm not sure my measurement is correct, because I would think backwards would be a bigger difference than just .5mm as the offset (which I am assuming is how far out the wheel is pushed) should be "pushed in" when the wheel is backwards. I don't really get how the overlap is so close (i.e. 5mm) between the wheel being forward and turned around.

But, perhaps a fork with a greater offset along with pedals that allow me to comfortably put my feet back a few mm would give me the space I need. What do you think about 160mm crank length instead of a 165mm crank length I have now?

Besides the particular clearance issue that I have discovered by trying to use a track frame for a FGFS, what else does the FGFS geometry provide that the track frame geometry does not?

Anyway, I appreciate the info. Gives me something to think about/consider.

diff 10-08-12 10:48 PM

And you are saying you had NO overlap before adding this fork? Doesn't make sense. Every fixed gear bike I have ridden has some overlap. You just have a little bit more now probably because of less rake. You have to get used to it. The point of that fork is to barspin. You have to know where your pedals have to be to spin. Getting a higher offset / rake fork will just give more overlap when spinning.

700c FGFS geo just has a super long top tube. Like the thrasher v2 has a 53cm seat tube, but a long top tube of 61cm. That is for less overlap when barspinning.

26 FGFS geo has even shorter seat tubes for lower standover, and the same long top tube. With 26 inch wheels, and certain frames you wont get any overlap even when barspinning.

EDIT: There are other differences as well, like bottom bracket height on FGFS bikes. But Low standover, and long top tube are the main ones.

Armand Navabi 10-08-12 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diff (Post 14821286)
And you are saying you had NO overlap before adding this fork? Doesn't make sense. Every fixed gear bike I have ridden has some overlap. You just have a little bit more now probably because of less rake. You have to get used to it. The point of that fork is to barspin. You have to know where your pedals have to be to spin. Getting a higher offset / rake fork will just give more overlap when spinning.

700c FGFS geo just has a super long top tube. Like the thrasher v2 has a 53cm seat tube, but a long top tube of 61cm. That is for less overlap when barspinning.

26 FGFS geo has even shorter seat tubes for lower standover, and the same long top tube. With 26 inch wheels, and certain frames you wont get any overlap even when barspinning.

EDIT: There are other differences as well, like bottom bracket height on FGFS bikes. But Low standover, and long top tube are the main ones.

I am not saying that I had no overlap. With my track fork, I don't even think I could spin the wheel all the way around because of the rake. I understand that with more rake/overlap you will have more overlap when you spin. Bar spinning is not the problem. The problem is, I am hitting my feet when I ride (e.g. when I make a sharp turn, or a tight u-turn) when the bar is forward.

Armand Navabi 10-09-12 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armand Navabi (Post 14821248)
I have an SE Landing fork (http://www.danscomp.com/products-RAC...Gear_Fork.html) which has a 29mm offset. Landing gear also makes another fork (http://www.sebikes.com/part.php?id=1876) that has a 36mm offset. That would give me an extra 7mm, ...

I did a measurement, where I put my feet in the straps of the current pedals I have, and then rub the tire on the soles of some white shoes where it overlaps the most, and then measure how far the black mark is from the front of my shoes, and with the wheel forward its about 6.5mm and with it backwards is about 7mm.

Sorry dudes. The above makes no sense at all. I dont need 7mm, I need 70mm (f'd it up like Michael Bolton in Office Space). So yeah, I don't think 9mm more offset is really going to do much. Looks like I'm putting my old fork back and bullhorns back on...

diff 10-09-12 09:22 PM

Can you show us a picture? The fork you linked us to is only 315mm fork length. It is way too short of a fork. I don't even see how that fork can barspin, or fit your wheel. Its a bmx fork.

You need to run a 700c barspin fork which are all around 420mm.

Armand Navabi 10-10-12 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diff (Post 14824967)
Can you show us a picture? The fork you linked us to is only 315mm fork length. It is way too short of a fork. I don't even see how that fork can barspin, or fit your wheel. Its a bmx fork.

You need to run a 700c barspin fork which are all around 420mm.

Sure. Perhaps the link I provided is wrong. Here are a picture with the handlebars forward and one with it backwards. I noticed one reason it is so close backwards and forwards, despite the offset, is the angle of the fork.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D...5s/s712/12+-+1

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-d...48/s712/12+-+2

fietsbob 12-23-12 01:43 PM

Just keep the track frame on the banked velodrome, the Misapplication, ridden on the street is the problem.

A street fixie should not have the overlap.

Philasteve 12-28-12 01:03 AM

A landing gear fork wasn't a good option, it has about 412 atc and 36 offset something like the bb17 cobra is 420 a2c and 20 offset. Would give you more barspin room. Like everyone else said get a fgfs frame. If you trick on a windsor the chainstays will bend after about 10 180s.


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