osco53

The Expressway was a fine ride, Just like I thought the skinny tires let me feel every pebble and sidewalk crack. Some of this may
have been the Aluminum frame, IDK.. I was a nice little bike but I didn't want Black, I wanted that pretty blue of the discounted Exp 2 but
I also wanted the 8 speed..

Then I found a local bike shop that sells ONLY Folders,,ONLY!,, Imagine that, I didn't expect that.
The Shop,,

2IIFOLDBICYCLE shop... Two Fold Bicycle Shop - St Petersburg, Florida
Located in St Petersburg Florida
There's some shop pictures on the net if ya look. Real cool owner, knows what he's doing. We Talked, he gave me options, never asked me my
budget,,It was $600 btw.
He had IN STOCK Bike Fridays and Bromtons and many Dahon's plus a few other makers I never heard of and all the toys, bags, n gear, etc..
And he had TIRES,,the tires we all like not just a few but several dozen from more than a few makers in the sizes we seek,,
Etero 451's for example,,In several flavors.. Gonna get a sticky one for my Tour easy next trip over..

Anyway A Red Dahon Speed P8 was all folded up and in the shop window,, sittin on a pair of 20x1.75 IMPAC Streetpac tires.. I've had these Inexpensive tires before and they are good tires, they roll great, feel sticky and wear ok, for the money, I may stick with them.
I can get two for less than One Schwalbe..
Retail was $750, His price was $599,,,

He showed me what $450 would get me,, then what $499 and $550 would do for me. He then took the P8 out of the window, set it up,
said, "Got a Helmet?" I said yep..

He said, "Take your time,, there's a park back that-o-way a few blocks,,go ride around the park a while". He then turned away and went back to work on a bike build..

He Is In Downtown St pete, the perfect testing ground for me,, Old sidewalks, many cracks, lots of pedestrian and auto traffic. Off I went....

Sold,,,

I cannot give an experienced opinion of the differences in the Giant Expressway and this Dahon considering these two were my first and only folding bike rides. But I will say,

The Giant didn't feel like it was made for me, It was what It was and I bet I would have been happy with it once I adjusted to the feel and mastered the slight squirly feel it had at lower speeds. It also felt disconnected from the road as the speeds came up. Again with saddle time I feel like these issues would all go away...

The Dahon Instantly felt like MY bike,, there was no, nada, none, not even a second of adjustment time or twitchy as I hear many mention. The fatter tires and better components gave me a better ride,,sidewalk cracks did not exist, turning and leaning felt natural. The faster I went the more dialed the bike felt. I made it to top gear,,

I must add that IMO my 5 years riding LWB Recumbent Tour Easy most likely gave me an edge with the so called first ride twitch.. But if that's the case why did the Giant twitch under me ??

The difference for me, was night and day.

Note: the RED color is wonderful but my Smart phone camera seem's to make it look faded...
In a few Pictures I turned on the flash for effect
,

tds101 

I think you made an excellent choice. I'm contemplating either a P8 or Tern ride. I wasn't fond of my Xootr Swift. Nice bike, just not my style.

osco53

This dealer also had Tern's, 5 models I think,,,
wild guess here,,,
about 8 Brompton's,
about 5 Tern's
about 8 or 9 Dahon's, one less,, my fault my fault
4 Bike Friday's,
and a few more I did not have the time to drool over ....

osco53

A rookie's observation,, on looks only.

Tern's I saw, a more fluid curved smoother looking bike.

Dahon's I saw, a few, same as above and then my P8,, a more Industrial look, straight frame tubes, looked IMO tuffer more utilitarian..

tds101 

Actually, I'm not a rookie. Thanks for your superior view.

The Speed P8 possesses a nice cromoly frame, and not only looks "industrial", it's decently strong. The Turn folders look "smoother", but the hinges are a bit tougher & they handle heavier riders and rough roads nicely.

I'm surprised you didn't berate me for getting rid of my " tougher than both the Dahon & Tern" folder. Especially since it was rockin a NuVinci N360 hub.

osco53

LOLOLOL NOOooOOooo No A rookie's observation,, on looks only.

ME !! I meant me,,I'm the rookie I said I've only ridden these two folding bikes and have seen only those in this one shop..
I've never owned one, sorry I thought that was clear..
This observation of mine was a first look at these bikes I know nothing about..

I got it home and rode it again, In 7th gear I got a good leg burn going, Top gear,8th is a bit too much. Yeah I'm happy

tds101 

Lol!!! My apologies. There's been so much arguing in this section of the forum lately I misunderstood the meaning of your post. I guess these 4 weeks in an MTA training class have totally befuddled my limited senses.

Honestly, you looking at the selection and TEST RIDING the bikes makes you much smarter than what you'd consider a rookie. Even i neglected to do so. We live, we learn. And the newest ones to the folding bike arena are often teachers.

osco53

I try hard not to be a know-it-all or a, "this bike is best because its what I have",, some with low post counts sound like they are employee's of this or that brand. Ok I know that's my paranoia but it DOES happen I bet..

I simply must stress again,, My Opinion/Observation's from my test rides of the Giant and the Dahon are a complete beginners view with No previous ride experience on folding bikes what so ever.

The difference in the way these two bikes felt was miles apart. (I must add I test rode the Giant the day before, not a side by side test), at another bike shop.

He offered to let me test ride others that cost more from the other well known makers
but I was at the top of my budget and so completely happy with the ride of the Speed P8 I did not want to risk
liking one so much better that I would no longer want the P8..

I worked a long day to day, very tired, still I took the P8 out for a one mile loop ride,, Yeah I'm gonna like this little bike.
It's purpose is to get me some good cardio miles during the week so I can get stronger and Increase my endurance on my mountain bike.

My Tour Easy eats up so many miles and more time than I have before I even begin to feel like I've had a workout. But the main thing is
the Tour Easy cannot go with me to work, the Dahon,,can

tds101 

Well, long story short - the P8 is supposed to be a performer. Not a race bike, or super high end. It's touted as solid, has decent components, rides quite well for the price point, and is reliable. Between the 2 I'd expect the Speed P8 to come out on top.

osco53

Is the P3 the step thru frame ? or
Dahon Ciao P3 ??
Dahon Piccolo P3 ??

I wanted to look at it for fun but I'm not sure ??

tds101 

Ugh,...I meant P8. Dang autocorrect. A P3 is a code I use at work,...

PS: my phone corrected it AGAIN!

osco53

The P8 "It's touted as solid, has decent components, rides quite well for the price point, and is reliable.",,

Autocorrect, I unnersand compleetie

After three rather short rides, (My total mileage is about 5)

My P8 feels,
Very Solid,
Stops very well and the pads are not even worn in yet.

The components are fine with me But a sticker on the handle bar right next to the twist shifter sez , "When shifting to faster gears please do so one at a time" No Issue with that, I did shift one at a time but very quickly backing off the power as I did,, works fine.
I will make It shift better after I get the sticky factory chain lube off and get the cable stretched into shape.
I can tell the lube on the chain does shifting no favors at all..
I tend not to touch a drive train before the cable gets settled in

I like the ride,

Point one,, Solid, I bet that means reliable

Going out on the Mountain bike tomorrow, I'm due a burn down workout, Gonna make it hurt real bad.
Sunday Is my recovery day,
I'll ride the P8 Monday afternoon to workout my sore legs. Got a short 12 mile loop for that

tds101 

Right now I have no foldie, so I'll be fixing a flat to ride my minivelo around next week. Tomorrow, it's single speed time! After I get some family time.

Enjoy your workout ride!!!

osco53

Ok, Finally I got two five mile rides on my 'Foldie',,Hey sounds cool like, 'Fixie'

I did a close to home five mile loop and really rung it out. Shifting as much as I could, to loosen up the very tight drive train.
Got home and cleaned that NASTY STICKY GOOIE factory chain lube off with my Park chain cleaning tool (get one) and simple green.
It took about six washing's. I guess that's for transport overseas in shipping containers but It's terrible for shifting....

If I owned a bike shop I'd always get that stuff off before a customer ever test rode a bike..

I dried the chain and used my trusty Finish Line Dry Lube,, hey It works great on my mountain bike so that means Its over kill on anything else. Works for me!
Let It sit overnight, wrapped a rag around the chain and spun the drive train In both directions constantly going to clean
spots on the rag, untill I could wipe no more off. Then I did the same five mile loop.
Yep, trust me fella's and get the Park chain cleaner rig then get that Goo off your new bike's chain ASAP !!

The $10 Wall mart chain cleaner is useless, It has no brushes for the sides of the chain, I know right !

Here Is the right Bike food:





Feed your bike, Feed It !!!

FWIW this little bike handles great, NO adjustment time needed, I just ride the thing..

osco53

Next bit of advice before I forget for all you first time foldie people,,hey I'm one ..

If you have any strength at all, and or any riding experience, If your going to do anything more than ride on crowded city sidewalks dodging pedestrians. GET the 8 speed !

The 7 speed's granny gear, the 28 tooth in the cassette may be fine, I don't get on my 30 tooth much, but I have and am glad It's there.... But,, The 7 speed free wheeler is 14-28 tooth and the only way to upgrade is a new hub/wheel then there's the rest....cost more than starting out paying a little more for an 8 speed....

The thing Is It's the other end, the speed cogs..
My 8 speed cassette has a 11 and a 13 tooth that the 7 speed does not have.

I'm on that 7th gear often and that's ONE tooth taller than the 7 speeds 7th.
Plus today I had a light tailwind and a flat smooth section to ride, It was fun to get into 8th and spin up !

Get the 8 speed in what ever bike you choose..

I'm just saying, for me an average strength rider 33- 97 gear inches Is far FAR more versatile than the 7 speed's 37- 74 gear inches...
Think about this aspect,
I have only one more gear cog, but I have THREE gears OUTSIDE/beyond the 7 speeds range.. follow me ?

Choose wisely boyz

BruceMetras

52/11 on 406 1.75 tires yields 88 g/i , not 97 .. the P8 is a solid performer and has been for years.. enjoy it!

tds101 

I ordered a Tern Joe P24 instead. My riding takes me from Queens, through Brooklyn, and back into Queens just to get into work. A lot of potholes, and I even have some cobblestones I have to contend with. Plus I still have my "winter weight" . I needed the larger wheels. The Speed P8 is excellent, but so is the Joe P24!

osco53

I didn't do the gear Inch math I simply copied the numbers off the Dahon site on my 8 speed and on a cheaper model with a 7 speed...

Odd your numbers are different, Odd a manufacturer would make a mistake like that on TWO models.....

osco53

I looked at the Joe's.. almost went thata'way but I wanted the 20 Incher,, personal pref and how I was going to use it..

Short 10 mile or less leg and lung drills,, Intervals, spin drills. I will not face anything like your pot holes, only uneven sidewalk cracks..

tds101 

My one way commute to work is 11 plus miles. A 20" wheeled bike, for me, won't really work. I like the added stability with a larger folder. And I can still do rack & fenders, fold it in half, and bring the bike inside my house instead of having to put it inside the garage. It's a real PITA, believe it or not, to get my bike out of the garage in the morning. The side of my house, with the gate, is sooooooooooo narrow.

PS: I'm about to do an electric conversion on my single speed 29er. It will be what I mostly ride during the work week, until I finally get back in shape to be able to do 100% me power. And that's in the garage. I'm not bringing that beast inside! WooHoo!

BruceMetras

Odd that the Dahon Site actually lists the g/i at slightly lower than my math at 86.6 g/i .. post your Dahon site so we can compare..

osco53

DAHON Bikes:*Speed P8 my P8
DAHON Bikes:*Speed D7 a 7 speed..

https://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html ,, on this I got a Gear Inch range of 34.7-94.5 with my 1.75"ers

BruceMetras

Interesting .. the bike you link to has 2.0x406 Big Apples.. the bike you say you purchased above has 1.75x406 .. so I was using 1.75x406 as the size to calculate gear/inches.. but even if you use 50x406 figures, you only get a shade under 93 g/i

Gear/inches = tire diameter x big gear/little gear..

1.75x406 (47x406) tire has 1515mm circumference .. convert to inches=59.6 .. divide that by Pi (3.1416) to get a diameter of 18.9 inches.. 52/11=4.73 .. 4.73x18.9=89.4 g/i

Sheldon lists at 88.3g/i for 52/11 406 1.75 ... but I see they use 44x406=1.75

and Machars lists 111.1 g/i for the same gearing and a generic 1.75x406 tire size.. (clearly a database error)

The Dahon Speed P8 page I linked to comes with 1.75x406 tires and identical gearing.. so you generously have a top of 89 g/i .. and of course to get more accurate, one would have to do a weighted/measured rollout of the bike in question... probably not worth the effort, but would be interesting none the less .. much like calculating a wired speedo for precision .. and the beat goes on ...

HGR3inOK

FWIW, the current USA-spec Dahon Speed P8 comes with 20x1.75 tires. Previous models of the Speed P8 sold in the USA from 2005 until recently had 20x2.0 Schwalbe Big Apple tires.

My first folding bike was a 2004 Dahon Speed P8. It was replaced by a 2008 Dahon Speed P8. Both were wonderful bikes.

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

osco53

Wow, I didn't know a 2.0" and a 1.75" would make that big of a G.I. range difference,, still I am glad you clairfied that.. Thanks !
The Mike Sherman calc. I used,,I could have sworn I plugged in a 20x1.75 tire ,,I will look again..

I still say to any first timer,,,pass on the seven speed, go for the 8....
The 7 spd 74 ish gear inches would be too short for me.

I took another ride local, subdivision roads level, plus side walks, some twisty, many cracks.
I seem to use gear #'s 3,4,5,6,7,,, remember, my 7th is a 13 tooth,,IMO I would feel the 14 tooth of the 7 spd as shorter..
When I'm trying to cover some ground quickly with lots of stop and go, no open area's I think 6th is all I need..

I also found an open VFW parking lot doing the Flea market thing,,, plenty of room to look with on the bike.
even then at walking speeds I did not use the 30 tooth cog...
The little 20" wheels get up and go so easy.
Starting off In 3 is fine and 8 like I said, for me, only in the open, level, smooth and a tail wind