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Tweaking Dahon EEZZ/Curve to add/replace 3-speed IGH?

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Tweaking Dahon EEZZ/Curve to add/replace 3-speed IGH?

Old 06-25-15, 01:16 PM
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the other option to consider is a used mezzo as these are inexpensive and take standard sized old. ie 135mm.
my spare dual drive mezzo is on sale on ebay across the water from you.

The new ebay world wide postage scheme may make mine or another economically viable.
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Old 06-25-15, 05:47 PM
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Thanks for the input. I already have a Brompton, but I was looking for a cheaper alternative for someone to whom €1.500 is a bit steep, although he does need the range provided by the six-speeder.

The Mezzo looks nice, but it has no front lug to hook up a Brompton carriage block; Besides, its unusual handlebar prevents putting a bag in the front anyway. Out of curiosity, I'd like to check the Mezzo you're selling. May I have the URL, in private if you prefer?

I saw a Curve D3 in a store this afternoon but couldn't measure its OLD: It's obviously less compact than a Brompton when folded, but it could be a good, cheaper alternative while providing a bigger gear range + easier shifting if fitted with an Alfine 8/11.
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Old 06-25-15, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Winfried
Thanks for the input. I already have a Brompton, but I was looking for a cheaper alternative for someone to whom €1.500 is a bit steep, although he does need the range provided by the six-speeder.

The Mezzo looks nice, but it has no front lug to hook up a Brompton carriage block; Besides, its unusual handlebar prevents putting a bag in the front anyway. Out of curiosity, I'd like to check the Mezzo you're selling. May I have the URL, in private if you prefer?

I saw a Curve D3 in a store this afternoon but couldn't measure its OLD: It's obviously less compact than a Brompton when folded, but it could be a good, cheaper alternative while providing a bigger gear range + easier shifting if fitted with an Alfine 8/11.
obviously less compact ..... well ...
go to my website
than to technical
than check the pics in the page called Curve vs Brommy

keep in mind that the pedals on the curve are not eben took off or folded when you compare

it might be a few mm here and there and maybe not... its definitely NOT obviously less compact ...
that's Brompton kool aid you are drinking

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Old 06-26-15, 03:46 AM
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Re mezzo.

MEZZO D9 FOLDING BIKE UPGRADED TO 21 SPEED PLUS EXTRAS | eBay

There is a quick release rack system that works really well and there is a possibility of using the seat post and bars to carry addition luggage. The large commuter bag is really large. There are also compactable panniers but you would need to avoid heel strike. The mezzo rack is much bigger than the brompton version about 50 to 100 percent.

The curve is a small package. You will have no issues on a train. It's footprint is reduced if you stand it on its edge. it's a perfectly userable train commuter.
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Old 06-26-15, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ThorUSA
it might be a few mm here and there and maybe not... its definitely NOT obviously less compact ... that's Brompton kool aid you are drinking

My bad. I should have written "Judging from 2m away and through the window pane, it looks like the Curve is less compact than the Brommie".


It's good news that it's, indeed, barely bigger:



Originally Posted by bhkyte
There is a quick release rack system that works really well and there is a possibility of using the seat post and bars to carry addition luggage.
Yes, but I prefer having a bag on the front, because most of the weight is already on the rear wheel.

Originally Posted by bhkyte
The curve is a small package. You will have no issues on a train. It's footprint is reduced if you stand it on its edge. it's a perfectly userable train commuter.
Thanks for the input.

--
Edit:

wish its fold was a bit smaller. Not bad for trains, apartments and offices. A bit big to bring onto a coach type bus. There's no way to squeeze it small enough between your legs and still get it behind a seat.
https://www.amazon.com/DAHON-CURVE-FO...ews/B00277OQA4

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Old 06-26-15, 08:23 AM
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you have to be carefull with amazon on the CUrve
The bike gets shipped from Dahon since almost 2 years now without fenders and carrier, but some sellers are still using the old photos, I cannot believe that some still sell 3 year old bikes, or that they put fenders and carrie onto the new bike :-)
I know how difficult it is to get the carrier and fenders for 16 inch bikes, we have both in stock :-)

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Old 06-26-15, 10:04 AM
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I could stop by another shop that sells Dahon, and happens to sell the D3.

Moral of the story:
  1. The D3 has a 120mm OLD
  2. The XL was sold with a Nexus 8, which apparently has the same OLD as the Alfine 11… but is no longer sold by Dahon.


The quest is over
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Old 06-26-15, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Winfried
Those options are way too expensive, especially when bought individually.
Indeed. But if you're looking for significantly more than a 300% gear range, what other options do you have?

If you have a Brompton with 6 speeds, you could modify it with different cogs to make the gear range larger for a relatively small sum.
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Old 06-26-15, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ThorUSA
you have to be carefull with amazon on the CUrve
The bike gets shipped from Dahon since almost 2 years now without fenders and carrier, but some sellers are still using the old photos ... I know how difficult it is to get the carrier and fenders for 16 inch bikes, we have both in stock :-) ...
My personal Dahon Curve D3 did not come with fenders or rack, and it has the single kickstand rather than the double kickstand that was on some previous models. I added fenders and a luggage truss for various KLICKfix-compatible accessories. See:
Dahon Bags and Luggage
The Kanga rack is the one that I use the most.

Even without the fenders and luggage truss, some disassembly is required to fit it into a 2011 Dahon Airporter Mini. Also, FWIW, the serial number on my Curve begins with D204. The rear hub is a SRAM iMotion 3, and the rear dropout spacing is 130mm.

-HANK RYAN-
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Old 06-26-15, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand
Indeed. But if you're looking for significantly more than a 300% gear range, what other options do you have?
The Curve… with an Alfine 11 and its 409% gear range.

Originally Posted by invisiblehand
If you have a Brompton with 6 speeds, you could modify it with different cogs to make the gear range larger for a relatively small sum.
Like I said above, I already have a six-speed Brompton (and a 50/34 double chainring): I was looking for a cheaper alternative for someone to whom €1,500 was a bit steep.

Originally Posted by HGR3inOK
Also, FWIW, the serial number on my Curve begins with D204. The rear hub is a SRAM iMotion 3, and the rear dropout spacing is 130mm.
That's yet another version of the D3: Over here, the OLD is 120mm and it comes with a three-speed Sturmey-Archer S-RF3 IGH.

Let's hope Dahon gets it acts together, and fixes the Curl in 2016:
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Dahon.Curl.NT.jpg (85.1 KB, 45 views)
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Old 06-27-15, 11:38 AM
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i aaaaammmm not sure with the Curl. it was showcased since......errr......2011?

i wish dahon get their internals sorted and roll out the eezz so it is available everywhere. its an interesting bike but nowhere to buy them.
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Old 06-27-15, 03:45 PM
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Yup, it's an interesting bike.

Too bad it only has three speeds, but maybe its derailleur can be upgraded.
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Old 06-28-15, 03:09 AM
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do you know how much it will weight in stock? would be nice to use it as a platform to play around with lightweight components from litepro.
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Old 06-29-15, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Winfried
The (Curve) D3 has a 120mm OLD
...and a 28 hole rear rim, and the Sturmey-Archer XRF8W is available in a 120mm OLD, 28 hole version.

Last edited by tcs; 06-29-15 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 06-29-15, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Winfried
Yup, it (the EEZZ D3) is an interesting bike.

Too bad it only has three speeds, but maybe its derailleur can be upgraded.
The EEZZ D3 uses a proprietary, narrow OLD rear hub that will only fit three (9-speed cassette width) cogs. It has a special 9 tooth top cog. I inquired to Dahon about the other two cogs (an 11T and a 13T), to find out if they're standard Shimano pattern and could be changed. Of course I didn't get an answer.

As geared from the factory, the EEZZ D3 (is this bike actually available anywhere yet?) has a very narrow range. To be equivalent to a standard three speed IGH, it would need 9-12-16T cogs.

Dahon's published factory specs for the light, quick folding EEZZ say it is larger than the benchmark Brompton when folded, but I see pictures on the internet that make it appear that the EEZZ folds smaller. Perspective is a funny thing, though...

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Old 06-29-15, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
...and a 28 hole rear rim, and the Sturmey-Archer XRF8W is available in a 120mm OLD, 28 hole version.
How good is that IGH, compared to a Shimano?

---
Edit: BTW, what does the (W) mean in "X-RF8(W)"?

Last edited by Winfried; 06-29-15 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 06-29-15, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Winfried
I was looking for a cheaper alternative for someone to whom €1,500 was a bit steep.
Ahhhhhh ... I missed that this was for someone else. Now things make more sense.
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Old 06-30-15, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Winfried
How good is that IGH, compared to a Shimano?
I don't own a Shimano Nexus 8 (I do own a bike fitted with a Shimano Nexus 7). I've ridden a bike fitted with the Sturmey-Archer 8 since 2009. Great hub, never misses a shift, nice spread of gears, choice of shifters, spares available, although if you absolutely must shift under pedal pressure, you and the XRF8W will have a short and unhappy relationship.

Edit: BTW, what does the (W) mean in "X-RF8(W)"?
That's the newer (2009- ) design Sturmey 8, a wider range (W) and more robust design than the original British designed 8 (2002-2008, non-W). In the past couple of years, Sturmey began to drop the 'W' on the newer model's designation.
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Old 06-30-15, 01:32 PM
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Thanks for the infos.

I'm used to stop pedaling or even backpedaling when shifting gears on the Alfine 11, so it's no problem.

500€ for the bike, 200€ for the IGH, and possibly no need to change the rear wheel.

--
Edit: It looks like the Curve requires horizontal non-turn washers. In case the washers provided by SA aren't for horizontal dropouts, will non-SA washers work as an alternative?

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Old 07-09-15, 07:31 AM
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The X-RF8(W) accepts a "20 to 23 or 25 teeth sprocket". According to the Sheldon Brown page, combined with a 44T chainring and a 20T sprocket, I'd get a development of 2.4 - 7.7m.

I read somewhere about IGHs that they impose a limit on the chainring/sprocket ratio because of the torque: Does someone know what the limit is for that IGH, so I know which chainring/sproket to get?

And what about replacing the chainring with a double, eg. 50/34?

Thank you.
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Old 07-09-15, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Winfried
I read somewhere about IGHs that they impose a limit on the chainring/sprocket ratio because of the torque: Does someone know what the limit is for that IGH, so I know which chainring/sproket to get?
Got no idea about an official primary drive ratio limit. I've ridden my XRK8W for five years with a 25T cog driven by Sturmey's matching FCS80, 30T crankset.
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Old 07-09-15, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Winfried
Edit: It looks like the Curve requires horizontal non-turn washers. In case the washers provided by SA aren't for horizontal dropouts, will non-SA washers work as an alternative?
Everything you need should be in the aftermarket retail box: hub, nuts, non-turn washers for horizontal dropouts, cable, shifter.
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Old 07-10-15, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
Got no idea about an official primary drive ratio limit. I've ridden my XRK8W for five years with a 25T cog driven by Sturmey's matching FCS80, 30T crankset.
Thanks for the info.

The "Internal-Gear Hub Torque" article on the Sheldon Brown site went quite above my head, but it does mention this about the SA XRF8(W) IGH:

A higher top drive ratio imposes more forward torque on the frame. The Sturmey-Archer XRF8(W) 8-speed hub's top ratio is 3.24 and so the torque on the frame is 0.69 of that from the chain. With the 38-tooth chainring and 25-tooth sprocket sold with this hub, torque from the chain is 74 pound feet. 69% of this is 51 pound feet, nearly as much as the 60 pound feet which a disk brake can generate with the same rider and bicycle, but taken up at the small radius of the antirotation washer tabs. It is no surprise that antirotation washer failure has been reported with this hub.

[…] As already stated and as the graphs show, the torque to the frame is lower if the hub mostly gears up rather than down.

On the other hand, greatest efficiency of a hub gear is usally at the unity ratio, with the gears idling -- and this is best as the most often used, level-ground gear, which is much closer to the top of the useful gear range than to the bottom. Lower gears will then impose a large torque on the frame.

[…] Yet other hubs minimize torque to the frame by avoiding extreme decrease ratios. The Sachs Elan hub had only two gears below unity ratio, and 9 above. Sturmey-Archer 8-speed hubs have only a unity ratio and increase ratios. Efficiency suffers with these hubs in the most-used upper middle part of the gear range.
I guess I won't have to worry about excessive torque on the D3.
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Old 07-10-15, 11:48 AM
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"On the other hand, greatest efficiency of a hub gear is usally at the unity ratio, with the gears idling -- and this is best as the most often used, level-ground gear, which is much closer to the top of the useful gear range than to the bottom."

"Best". I would say rather that it is a reasonable compromise to have the unity gear (probably the most efficient) to be the most used gear - if there is such a thing. I would also say that it is another reasonable compromise to have the most efficient gear be the lowest ratio - the one the rider uses when loaded/going up hill/against a wind, when the going is toughest - like the S-A 8.

And I hate to sound like a broken record, but everybody talks about efficiency with IGHs, but rarely with the various cog/chainwheel combinations of derailleur gearing. Yep, the efficiencies are different, and sometimes comparatively quite low with the relatively tiny cogs used to get useful ratios with small wheel (folding) bikes.
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Old 07-10-15, 03:11 PM
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Am I correct in understanding the trade-off for folding bikes:
  • direct drive as 1st speed allows for a small chainring, but means that, unless they live in hilly areas, riders spend most of their time using "geared" speeds
  • direct drive as one of the middle speeds imposes a bigger chainring but means riders will often ride with the speed with least friction

?
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