GTizzy

Helix - Blog Post

So is this project going to deliver?

shrooms

As Downtube suggested it's too risky to believe they are going to deliver. There is no money back garantee if you fund the Kickstarter program.

jur

I believe he has a fantastic design. It comes accross as a 90%... The gearing and the fit is slightly risky. I think the biggest risk is the guy sticking to his pricing and going out of business. Many here believe that the price is too low.

What he has going for him, besides the great-looking bike, is that he seems strong financially from other ventures, so he could ride through the dips.

GTizzy

The folding mechanism looks like an inner core that joins two tubes by sliding between them. Am I wrong? Is this design new / unique? I don't recall seeing it on any other folders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUOnLx1-7BQ

Also, Shimano Zee, while no XTR, is not a cheap group by any stretch.

Still looks interesting, though I'll probably wait until production is confirmed

downtube

Shrooms,

I did not say that. I said it does not make sense to risk $1200 to only save $200, hence I would wait for the product to come to market to minimize risk. I hope he delivers....seems like a great product, and would make a lot of people happy.

Thanks,
Yan

tcs

It really does seem like a cool folder and I wish them all the best. That said, I guess I'm having trouble warming up to the Helix because of their marketing:

Most compact folding bike in the world! Nope.

World's lightest folding bike! Nope.

Safer! This is just marketing hyperbole if not backed up by documented 3rd party testing. (BTW - It's Mr. Boutakis'company to run, but very few companies advertise 'safer'. Such claims open up a lot of liability.)

Easier to use! Well, it's a 'lift' design, so at best that's opinion/debatable.

(Mr. Boutakis) can be credited for introducing vertical folding to modern folding bikes. Whatcha talkin bout, Willis? It's hard to see the difference between the Helix fold and the fold of a Birdy or an Anemos.

I'd also like to see what the Helix looks like folded and unfolded with (optional) factory racks/bags and fenders/mudguards.

towndock

Brilliant design, happy to see it is finally launching. If it succeeds it will be a big + for the folding bike world.

Caveat: While I'm 90% blown away by the beauty / ingenuity of the bike, I can't stop being nervous about that fork.

invisiblehand

Hah! You've just aged yourself old man! Welcome to the club TCS!

FWIW, I think it looks like a cool bike and something with a lot of potential. But considering that the alternatives are pretty good, I think it's risky. My take is that this is the bike for someone that is really hung up on the small wheels.

I think TCS's comment about fenders and a rack is excellent. In some of the photos, the clearance between the top of the wheel and the fork crown appears quite small. My experience taking folders on Metro suggests that fenders are a necessity since even when it doesn't rain, there are still wet spots that other things that make tires messy.

RE: Jur's comment ... How can they make the frame for less than $1200?

shrooms

Sorry about that. I just didn't want to repeat what you said.

tcs

I was the guy at the party who sent Greg Lemond for tacos.

kahuna100

Agreed on the small wheels criticism, here's a quote from their website:

They could be but folding bikes come with their own set of compromises. They ride funny because they have small wheels and compromised geometry; they're heavy; they're awkward to use; and worst of all, they don't actually fold that small.

Makes me wonder if the guy ever rode a Brompton. Full disclosure...first post on this forum, Brompton owner. Wish the guy well but it's never a great idea to diss your (very successful) competitor before you've won the game.

2_i 

Isn't Perfect typically the Enemy of Good?

keyven

Welcome to the club. Nothing bonds stronger than criticism of our beloved folder!

Ultralight

Any thoughts on the fact this comes only with 165mm cranks? Is this the industry norm? That seems to be an added expense for many males of average height or up. Replacing that particular crankset is not a low cost proposition.

Thanks

downtube

I think 165mm cranks are required for the compact fold. I like this bike alot, however it's weaknesses seem to be the cranks and fork.

FYI I have never seen a folding bike without weak points.

Thanks,
Yan

Ultralight

5mm is such a tiny difference though, less than 1/4 inch. Hard to imagine that the design could not accommodate that. Hmm....

downtube

Look at the photo of the bike folded, I don't see much room for anything longer.

Thanks,
Yan

ThorUSA

looking at the pictures it doesn't seem to me that a longer crank would make any difference on the bike. while todays trend for big bikes is going longer and longer up to 175 mm instead of the yesterday normal 172.5 or last weeks 170 mm ... making the crank any shorter than that seem to me that it is showing that the guys have no clue specing the right components. ( not to mention about the pricing, which will never work out )

thor

downtube

I was focusing on the first picture on their website. I thought the fold required short cranks, looking again I see I was incorrect. Now I am confused...why spec 165mm cranks?

I give these guys credit for thinking outside the box but I hope they change specs to 170mm cranks.

Thanks,
Yan

jur

Perhaps he got a truck load of short cranks for a song.

prathmann

With my current bikes having cranks of 165, 170, and 175mm and not having much of a preference, I could live with the 165mm. But I note a rather small front ring of only 38t which would limit the gearing with a regular 10-spd cassette to about 82 g.i. (the Capreo 9-26 cassette would allow a more reasonable 101 g.i. but with poor parts availability). If the high-end gearing is so limited a shorter crank might be desirable by allowing a higher cadence than one can comfortably maintain with longer cranks. I presume the small ring size choice was driven by the effect on the folded size of the bike.

Ultralight

What do you mean about the pricing which will never work out? Too cheap?

Ultralight

I've been away from bikes for over two decades so I'm behind the curve.

Two question:

For those of you who are well informed, looking as the components that are ALREADY specified on the Helix, what do the correspond to with a full sized regular non-folding bike in terms of pricing? Would those component appear in a $1000 bike? $1500? More? Less? Just trying to get a sense of the components.

And with Kickstarter, if one plunks down $1300, and Helix does not deliver, is the supporter out of the $1300? I've heard horror stories of people loosing sizable chunk of cash when the manufacturer did not deliver.

Thanks
UL

downtube

With the Ti frame your looking north of 2k.
I imagine so, since you are funding a campaign....you are not buying a bike ( that is a perk if it works out ).

Thanks,
Yan

Ultralight

Thanks Yan.

Sorry - I wasn't clear. I meant with a regular quality steel or aluminum frame rather than Titanium. What would a regular steel/aluminum frame with these components retail for normally?

Thanks!
UL