tds101 

A titanium frame is worth the extra cost.

mconlonx

You can get a significantly cheaper single speed bike, for instance a Dahon Boardwalk @ $300 or so. With the comparable Helix running $1200. Probably more comparable to the Mu Uno at $600-700, and the disk brakes, particularly the Spyre calipers, would push the price higher as well. Once you get into full size bikes, You could compare to nice SS mtn bikes in the $800-1000 range.

The Alfine IGH equipped bikes... Compare to full size bikes at $800 - 1200 or so. On the cheap and of the folder world, there's the Downtube with belt drive and 8sp IGH for $700 all the way up to something like a Birdy or Bike Friday in the $1800 range. So the IGH bikes are comparable to premier folders, minus a belt drive.

10sp with Zee/SLX components. This seems to me the bargain of the bunch. @ $1300, I'd say it's comparable to bikes with similar quality, either mtn bikes or other folders. Mtn bikes at this range have a pretty nice suspension fork, so that would be the tradeoff premium for titanium.

In any of these configurations, the titanium frame and decent components seem like a screaming deal. Especially compared to other premium folders with steel or Al frames, but even compared to some non-folders.

downtube

Not sure...they are decent. I guess close to 1k a little bit under...but this would be for an established brand, which this campaign does not have.

Thanks,
Yan

downtube

I agree with mconlonx it seems like a screaming good deal. I just have a hard time evaluating the risk/reward of campaigns....ironically I will be running one myself soon.

Thanks,
Yan

BikeLite

At first glance, the folded dimensions don't seem accurate for 24" wheels. The other parts are sticking out 4"+ on several sides from my eyeballing.

prathmann

It does look a little optimistic. But note that 507-40mm wheels will have an actual size of 23" despite being labeled as 24". And they list two versions of the folded size: 23 x 25 x 9 (I'm very skeptical) and 23 x 26 x 9.5. The latter will require a rather carefully made suitcase to hold it and stay under the airline L+W+H <= 62" rule, but maybe the size could be reduced with some minimal disassembly.

bhkyte

It would be not an issue with 20" wheels. I would be interested in a 20 inch version. But there are established compacts in market that do simular commuting roles. There are established full sized bikes that do the full sized fold for off road. I don't see the value in the middle ground. A smaller folding 20 would out preform all the 16 inch compacts most likely. I see value in.
I hope they are sussessful and they build a 20" or even a 16 to follow that I would consider funding.
As for now very interesting.
I wish them luck it looks to be good enough for us to regret if it fails. I wish it every sussess.

Ultralight

A bit OT but given that with Kickstarter, one is not guaranteed the product thought one sprints $1300 plus shipping on it, this seems very risky. Apparently nobody, including Kickstarter, will guarantee that the Helix will be delivered after the $1300 is charged. Am I right or am I missing something here? In all, that seems quite risky, no?

I'm not knocking the design at all - but more the risk.

UL

Nightdiver

You've pretty much nailed it.

mconlonx

Part of the thrill of investing...

kwmin7

I know that Kickstarter will not refund the money..
but if the project fails, Doesn't project creator refund? Can he just take the money and disappear? (I'm not saying that Helix will do this.. )

jur

This project looks like it has a lot more credibility than some of the other dubious ones that have been featured. It was also endorsed by none other than Mark Anders, inventor of Strida. You can see from the publicity material that this is a finished product. So to me this generates confidence. If I didn't have 2 Ti Swifts, I might have put down the money for one of these.

Ultralight

Jur, you can probably sell off one of your Swifts and more than pay for a Helix with money left over...

After comparing a number of folders side by side, I realized that something like the Brompton is a boon. I just saw a youtube video where four guys fit four Bromptons in the trunk of a prius.....wow. I think it may be possible to do that with a Helix also..

UL

bhkyte

I have had 4 folders in the back of a vauxhall astra many a time. Doesn't have to be a Brompton. Brompton don't tend to need disambley, but they are harder than mezzos. And birdies to remove bars,seat posts,or wheels quickly anyway. For small cars I tend to find thin folds work best. So the helix may work better than a Brompton in the right car. I have found that only my diblasi R4 fitted compact cars like nissian micra due the the 3 layer fold. A mezzo or Brompton just didn't fit.

bhkyte

Has this page been hacked I keep getting redirctions?

towndock

Nope. You likely have a browser issue.

Agreed. One may have legit concerns about a newly launched product (as they might with any company), but nothing about this suggests they won’t deliver a bike.

mconlonx

It took four guys to do that?!?

I like the fact that with pretty much any folder (20" wheels) I can fit it cross-wise across the back seat space of nearly any subcompact car. Without folding. I could do this in our old Mazda Protege5 with both a vintage Raleigh R20 and a Birdy.


Beyond concerns about a 1st-gen design, the issue with non-refundable Kickstarter funding for this particular project is this: for a Ti bike, the price sounds too good to be true. Like $500-1000 too low for what it is.

And that as good as the design might be, as talented an engineer and marketer as the guy or team running the show might be, they might have miscalculated the actual cost of production. That when it actually comes time to push the "go" button on manufacturing, they will do a cost review and find out that they will be losing money if they actually go through with it, and pull the plug... while still having to pay for the upfront fixed costs already incurred.

I hope they pull it off. I don't have any reason to think they won't. But being in a business where I source manufacturing, I can easily see how things could go wrong enough that they stop short of production.

I prefer to envision a future where people are riding their awesome Helixes, purchased at intro pricing through the Kickstarter campaign, and I am gnashing teeth, beating breast, and tearing hair about not getting in on the initial deal.

tcs

Okay, there's a general consensus that Helix is using a different cost-to-manufacture manual than everyone else in the industry, but I'm surprised that no one else seems to think the Helix Kickstarter's demonstrably erroneous marketing statements are any sort of red flag for investment/pre-purchase.

Ultralight

Nightdiver

You're not alone. Some others have said similar things in other threads where the Helix is discussed. I try not to support companies that are either so inept as to not know their market and competitors, or so sleazy as to knowingly publish false superlatives just for marketing buzz. Of course, sometimes it's just miscommunication, so benefit of the doubt...

towndock

That's a lot of pressure to put on Helix - to prevent your self induced injury they'll have to stop shipment.

Re comments on their marketing prose - I'll concur it does seem like Donald Trump may be helping them with their copy.

HGR3inOK

+1

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

Nightdiver

I actually don't think their pricing is completely out of line. Low, yes, but maybe not unsustainable. So far everyone is comparing their pricing to companies that may or may not use similar sales channels. Brands that skip the layers of retailers and/or distributors are able to undercut pricing. Compare the pricing of the Helix to Ti bikes from BikesDirect. Of course BD has lower labor costs of Asia manufacturing and I'm assuming rather nice volume pricing for components. Not sure how Helix is able to compete with building their frames in Canada. Maybe their factory workers are powered by Elsinore.

downtube

Jur,

The issue is not whether or not the Helix is a viable concept.....most think it is. The question to fund or not fund is a question of risk/reward. The retail price is slated at $1400 which is not much more than the kickstarter price. I would rather accept no risk and buy for $1400, rather than accept $1200 risk to save $200.

Thanks,
Yan

Cyclosaurus

Yan, I would agree with you if I thought that the price will settle in at $1400. I think this bike is the real deal. If not, it's one hell of a well-crafted smoke and mirrors show. I am betting that the funders will get their bikes, after which the price will go up to something like $2000 because I think that reality will settle in about the costs of mass producing a titanium bike to quality and making any real profit. Man I'd love one of these though. I really am pulling for the guy, but I don't think anything but a divorce will get me a Helix.