cpg

Has anyone actually put the question about cost of manufacture/retail cost to the man behind Helix? Rather than speculating, his answers to such a question may well give a good a idea as to weather or not the price quoted is actually deliverable. Its not an unreasonable for potential investors to ask though and probing questions of the company/individual they are investing in.

Ultralight

Occurs to me that if Helix does succeed, and can keep the $1600 market price for the derraileur version, it may displace Bromptons to a considerable degree as its overall physical volume and size is about the same as the Brompton, plus the bonus of an all titanium frame, much larger wheels and considerably lighter in weight. All at the price similar to a normally appointed Brompton with steel frame. Dunno....just seem like a threat to Bromptons.

Of course, that is if the Helix succeeds.

UL

Winfried

We're still waiting for a competitor to come up with a bike that would fold as small as the Brompton while providing better manufacturing + components. And ideally, a lower price to make it more accessible for all those commuters out there.

Dahon has been at it since, what, 2008? And the Curl that came out this year was pulled after just a few weeks over "technical problems", as they say.

mconlonx

Truth on my end: I'd still be interested in the design even if it was in steel instead of titanium, at the same price. I'd be even more interested in a steel version if it was significantly cheaper than the Ti bike.

Another nod toward believe-ability -- The seeming discount pricing, like with many Kickstarter campaigns, could also just be a way to cover the up-front costs of the startup. There's a lot of fixed costs which go into ramping up into production and if they can amortize those costs over an initial run at a discount price, it could very much be worth the lack of profit, especially if every bike from there on out is just gravy, no amortizing the initial fixtures and development. There's also publicity and marketing to consider. Along with just getting it out in the hands of consumers. Any number of ways to justify lack of profit which will then be built in to pricing after the initial run.

towndock

Kickstarter underway. They appear off to a quick start:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...t-folding-bike

jcrider

Hello,

From the dimensions quoted on kickstarter, is anyone able to tell me how it might fit for someone who is 6'2" tall and has a 32 inch inseam?

Many thanks.

Sizing and Geometry

A) Seat tube length: 338 mm / 13.3 in
B) Effective top tube length: 590 mm / 23.2 in
C) Actual top tube length: 590 mm / 23.2 in
D) Head angle: 73 deg
E) Seat tube angle: 77 deg
F) Standover height (centre): 671 mm / 26.4 in
G) Head tube length: 100 mm / 3.9 in
H) Wheelbase: 1066 mm / 42 in
I) Chainstay length: 411 mm / 16.2 in
J) Bottom bracket height: 308 mm / 12.1 in
K) Trail: 70 mm / 2.8 in
L) Frame reach: 435 mm / 17.1 in
M) Frame stack: 672 mm / 26.5 in
N) Handlebar height: 980 mm / 38.6 in
O) Seat post height to pedal spindle: 882 mm / 34.7 in max | 580 mm / 22.8 in min

towndock

As with most folders, it is designed to fit a range of sizes. Item "O" suggests you'd be OK:

O) Seat post height to pedal spindle: 882 mm / 34.7 in max | 580 mm / 22.8 in min

From their site:
[h=3]What is the max/min rider height and weight?[/h] Helix has been designed to accommodate riders between 5' to 6'3" and carry up to 250 lbs. There is a large range of adjustability possible to achieve the desired fit. The saddle height can be raised or lowered to the appropriate height to accommodate a 5' - 6'3" rider based on industry fitting guidelines. The saddle can also move forwards and backwards and also the seatpost has a 20mm setback that can be reversed to further adjust the saddle position forwards or backwards. The stem has a 20mm rise that can be flipped to achieve a 20mm drop. If any of these adjustments is not enough, it is always possible to replace the stem, seatpost, handlebar and crankarms to achieve a better fit. The seat post dimensions are 27.2mm x 350mm and the steerer tube diameter is 28.6mm.

jcrider

Thanks. That is very helpful. I did not see their fit description on the website.

Ultralight

I happened to be online when they launched and apparently met goal less than an hour after launch. Obviously I'm fascinated by this bike....

UL

Ozonation

I just received the email 15 minutes ago that Helix had launched on Kickstarter, and when I went to check, they had already doubled their funding goal. I had signed up to get notified, so I have no idea how much time elapsed, but I was kind of surprised that they've already exceed their goal in such a short period of time. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be...

Ultralight

Just peeked in again out of curiosity. Approaching a quarter million dollars in less than three hours.

Wow!

UL

smallwheeler

$400,000 in 7 hours....

Ultralight

Yeah, I was chatting with my wife earlier today when they hit 1/4 million under 3 hours and said they may hit 1/2 million by tomorrow. Beginning to look like I'm a pessimist and they hit it before midnight. Goodness gracious. Whether one supports this or not, it's a good bit of fun to see the project take off like a rocket.

I'm wondering however if people are cancelling order with other high end folder manufacturers. My guess is that success has a way of snowballing so that this projects is getting to a size where it feels too large to fail and a number of potential buyers on the sidelines jump in. There is safety in numbers. $1200-1600 is still a good chunk of change but relatively speaking, the performance to price ratio is off the charts.

Of course, if they are loosing $ per bike, then the larger the number, the worse it is for them.

But the scale is likely to let them negotiate better component pricings. It is even possible that if this takes on such a reputation that some manufacturers may want their parts on the bike and provide even better pricing. I am in pure conjecture mode here at this point...

Normally Kickstarters have 'stretch' goals but there were none here. I'd bet if they had it, this would meet and exceed every stretch goal.

UL

jur

By the looks of the enthusiasm, they won't be able to deliver all bikes ordered. In a day, about 300 - sure that will taper down quite drastically but it still looks undoable in the scheduled time. That would be 10 bikes per day in the final production phase. With no breaks.

Seems they might have gone with the limited number to erm... limit numbers.

Ultralight

So....Jur did you jump? I expected you to....

UL

towndock

I'm impressed. If the order volume creates a delayed delivery for some, with good communications they could manage that. Customers in their native Canada may not mind - early March isn't ideal biking time in the great white north.

Re the pricing concerns many have voiced: Comparisons were made to bikes made in very small quantities. I have no manufacturing knowledge in this area, but would assume higher quantity of titanium frames would create manufacturing efficiency. The raw cost of titanium has gone down 20% in the last year (like many commodities). Does that translate to the cost of titanium tubing?

On first glance, manufacturing in Toronto seems odd (expensive real estate, urban labor rates). But there is that example of a rather successful folding bike company that manufactures in an even pricier place - London. The Helix launch and future will be interesting to see.

Ultralight

So....Helix did hit half a million in the first 24 hours. Golly.

UL

BruceMetras

So out of the 325 backers at this moment, does anyone on Bike Forums have a horse in the race?

mconlonx

Nope. If I had that kind of money, I'd have a new Birdy, a BF, or one of Jur's Ti frames on order.

Or a $400-600 folder and a plane ticket to someplace awesome.

downtube

I was going to wait until it hot the market, however I changed my mind and bought in. I got the impression this campaign is turning into an event....possibly changing the market in many ways.

I think manufacturing Ti frames in North America is a great. China is not so cheap for manufacturing also import delays, duty, communication problems are all reasons to try North American manufacturing. Additionally the high cost of overseas Ti manufacturers compared to the cost of tubing can justify production close to home.

Thanks,
Yan

jcrider

When I checked Helix's Facebook page yesterday, it had a couple of posts celebrating that they were substantially over the funded minimum (at that time, I think by about 200%), and the messages said something like "lets keep it going" or "lets see how high it can go" or something to that effect.

I notice that those posts are gone from Facebook today. I hope that does not suggest there is any concern with actually filling all of such orders.

I would very much like to own one of these bikes.

downtube

They are at 300+ bike orders so far. I doubt that will be a problem. I hope they max out around 3,000....that would be a comfortable goal to scale. Any more could create complications....that's my opinion.

Thanks,
Yan

jcrider

thanks for the input.

jcrider

I have often thought that Len Rubin should get his suppliers lined up and do a kickstarter campaign for his ultimate brompton clone. He used to write that he needed a capital source, and that could be a way to generate capital and attention to his concept.

Nightdiver