GTizzy

Check it:

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...cket=14#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...cket=14#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...cket=14#detail

downtube

So these guys don't know how to use business plan software? I mean come on....the risks are not with the funding, they are with the design ( IMHO )

Thanks,
Yan

2_i 

I own the top one of those. They are marketed for regional markets only. To the extent that I know the Dahon is not in charge of their production - they are just marketed under the Dahon name and their manufacturers buy some parts from Dahon, such as hinges. The quality is well inferior to the Dahons marketed in the US and Western Europe.

jyl

I looked at the Helix website with great interest. I realize many of you have been following this bike for some time, but I just heard about it.

Here is my question for you guys. Would it be possible, do you think, to make Helix into a "folding roadbike"?

My thinking is you could:
1. Put a standard road bike stem on the handlepost, in place of the shorty. If the handlepost has a diameter equal to or slightly smaller than a standard threadless fork steerer tube. Might have to cut the handlepost shorter too, if you like slammed stems.
2. Install drop bars in that stem. I realize the bars and stem will protrude from the fold, unless the bars can be rotated to fit over the tire.
3. Install an alternative seat post, with some setback - if necessary for fit.
4. Mount a front derailleur on the seatpost, using a clamp on mount.
5. Replace crank with double.
6. Replace cassette.
7. Install standard road brake/shift levers. Figure out some solution for cable stops.
8. Install clipless pedals in your favorite flavor.

Voila. Folding roadbike - possible? I'm guessing that judicious selection of carbon components for 1 2 3 & 5 would keep the weight at stock levels. And that, for the serious weight weenie, someone makes 24" carbon fiber rims . . . I know they make 24" tubulars.

bhkyte

Drops dont work well on folders. Much better of with bullbars to get a compact fold.even if you rotate the stem to fold they dont tend to work well. I preffer upside down cut back drops to proxy low profiles. You get the road bike hood postion and drop postion but not the top section of drop bars.

jyl

Seems like drop bars could hook over the wheels, if the stem were designed for it.

I had a Dahon folder. The bike just never fit right. The saddle to bar reach was too short, the bars were too high, and the bars were flat straight bars which are the most tiring design for longer rides. It was a bike made for short, slow rides in the sit-up-and-beg position. I've looked for a folder that fits and rides like a roadbike - fast, stretched-out, low and aero body position. The Bike Friday looks very good, but it doesnt fold very compactly. This Helix might, I think, be modified to work.

Pine Cone

from the FAQ section of the Helix website...


CAN I CUSTOMIZE HELIX?

Helix will be compatible with many off the shelf bicycle components. There are however some limitations due to the fact that Helix folds so small and has significantly tighter clearances than regular bicycles.

The area of most limitation is the crankset. Only specific cranksets will work and there will be a limit as to how large of a front chainring you can use due to the clearance between the chainline and chainstay. Also, it is not possible to use a front derailleur. With that said, some very high quality cranksets are compatible.
...
The maximum tire width is 1.5". Cockpit is for the most part unlimited. Helix will us a standard seatpost diameter. Rims, hubs, spokes, chains, cassettes, derailleur's including electronic shifting are all for the most part compatible.

Keep in mind any changes may affect the overall folded size, for example, adding drop bars will increase the folded width.

We will post all relevant dimensions to help with customization such as bb shell, steerer and seatpost diameters etc.

We will begin a section on our website to document compatible components. For this reason we advise all backers to wait for delivery and refer to our website before beginning the fun process of customization!

bhkyte

I have quite a lot of experience customising folders to be more like road race bikes. Looking at the helix I don't think drops would hook over the frame as drops are significantly narrower than straight bars and it looks like you would need bars about the same width to attempt this. Bromptons can take wider bull bars that fold either side of the front wheel without any Quick releases adding. The fold looks wrong for this approach. Its difficult to be compeltely sure before tring it for real but it looks like you need a quick release stem or stem bolts/ stem extender to fit any road race forward reaching type bars. Drops might work due to the gaps in the fold, but I would be surprised if standard drops could be modded to fold as flat as standard bars. Low profile or bull bars can usually be fitted in a way that does add to fold width with an addition QR fitment.

jyl

Thanks for your thoughts.

It looks to me that, when folded, the stem points to the outside. So if you fitted a longer stem, the bike would fold fine, but the bar would be displaced to the outside. If you fitted a 100 mm stem versus the stock 30 mm (?) stem, the fold would be about 70 mm wider. If you fitted drop bars, they would point even more to the outside. With compact drops, there is about 8-10" from the stem clamp to the tips of the hoods. So a 100 mm stem plus drop bars would make the folded bike around a foot wider. Does that sound about right?

It also seems to me that if you're trying to make this a roadbike, then you might mount the stem well down from the top of the handlepost, and cut the handlepost shorter. When folded, that would position the stem and bar higher. Maybe the stem would be around the top tube.

The folded bar is at an angle. So if the handlepost was cut short and the stem was short enough, and the handlebar could rotate in the clamp, then . . . I'm not sure where the hooks will end up. Somewhere over the headset and top tube?. Rotating the bars, if you could, would make the fold taller, but less wide.

Are there any stems that are a "normal" length (like 80-120 mm) with a quick release for the bar clamp? Or, would it be dangerous to repeatedly loosen and tighten the clamp bolts of a conventional stem?

I guess bull bars are an option. I don't really like how road levers mount on bull bars, the cables have nowhere to go and you can't securely ride on the hoods. Maybe moustache bars would be an option.

bhkyte

Have a look at some my threads about fitting bullbars. I probably should call my bar option something other than a bullbar. I use upsidedown cut back drops. With the road race brake/gears mounted vertically like old fashioned low profile time trial bars. Not aero bars.
Bullbars with horizontal mounted levers fold better but I dont like them and with the upside down drops you get an extra hand position.

Yes it looks like shortening the stem would help with this mod. There are a couple of options for QR stem extenders. Dahon for instance but the usual solution is a Alba Halo with a QR added. It should be perfectly safe enough with the later. The dahon is QR but marginal to hold the bars and overly long for this application at about 6 inches.
Mezzo modders have added a single QR to a 2 bolt stem(locktite other bolt) and not had issues afaik.
There are pently of alternative QR stem solutions.

jyl

Thanks!

I guess all this will be moot if Helix can't survive selling bikes at the advertised price.

Myself, I'd prefer to buy a bare frame from them.

jyl

Also, why do you think helix says a front derailleur is not possible?. When the bike is folded, the chain will pull down on the cage, but i wouldn't think it would be enough force to damage it.

jur

There few if any photos showing the Helix from the right, folded or not. But the rear wheel sits next to the seat tube exactly where a FD would be mounted. With a bigger chainwheel it might be possible, hard to say, but cranksets are also limited. Not sure exactly why, but the position of the rear wheel when folded is the reason. Also, chainring size is constrained by chainstay clearance.

jyl

I see what you mean. The rear tire might foul the front derailleur. Or it might foul the big/outer chainring. Or both.

Shame. I guess one will be stuck with 1x10 gearing. Or a hybrid IGH/cassette.

bhkyte

Dual drive would add weight but not a lot over a front mech. Shame to add weight to it but its always the case if adding more gears.

jyl

Hmm, maybe one of these (crank based three speed gearbox) would not impede the fold.

Gearbox | Efneo

Joe Remi

Interesting..it looks like a Patterson Transmission, but with one more gear, simpler installation, and a dedicated shifter. Nice.

https://pattersonbike.com/

jyl

I calculated GI using this and 11-23 ten speed cassette with 24" wheels. Would work nicely, not too much overlap and nice close ratios.

jur

If yoy stare at this Helix photo, then some of the limitations become visible.

Tiny clearance between crank and right stay. Right stay limiting chain wheel diameter.

Pine Cone

from the Helix Kickstarter comments...

[h=3]Creator Helix Labs Inc. on September 29[/h] @avi Karminer, the Efneo is a gear box that we will be looking in to further. Of all the crank gearboxes we have seen it is the most likely to be compatible.

jyl

Jur, thanks for posting that picture. Wow, things are tight. Looks like tire width will be limited too.

Pinecone, interesting comment you found.

I realize I'm hypothesizing about fitting a vaporware crank to a vaporware bike so . . .

This week I'm going to Eugene to look at some Bike Fridays as well. The Speed Tikit is the one I'm most interested in.

jyl

You know, someone needs to come up with a disc brake rotor that goes on the cassette side of the hub. Would allow a one sided rear frame, an even tighter fold, and would replace the dork disc.

mconlonx

One chopper trick is a sprocket brake:



But I don't know of any similar thing for a bicycle. And with such a setup, I've always wondered about contamination from chain lube onto the disk/sprocket and brake pads. Same thing on a bicycle setup -- how to keep from contaminating the brake pads or disk with chain lube...?

jyl

Not sure about the chain lube. But the dork disc usually doesn't get too oily, so maybe the brake disc wouldnt, and disc brakes are supposed to be super poweful, and it is just the rear brake. Okay, might be too much trouble for the benefits.

bhkyte

Looks like the QR bullbar idea would work well with the bar folding either side of the rear cassette. Yielding at least as compact a fold as the striaght bars. There is the issue of clearence from the rear mech it looks like the brake levers are touching the rear mech in the fold. I woulder if you have to select a low gear to keep the cage folded back before folding?

It looks like it would benefit from a narrower hub!! Any photos of a IHG version? A dual drive click box would stick right out of the fold and be very liable to knocks.
I think most people would change the pedals straight off and these silly tiny rollers to something bigger for better rolling.