GTizzy

Hey guys!

I just found this project today: https://hummingbirdbike.com/

It's a 6.5 kg carbon fibre folding bike, built in the UK.

Thoughts?

It launches on Kickstarter on Wednesday.

paulthomson

That's really weird, I came across this yesterday. Shame about the weird homepage, not the design I would have gone for.

I think I read somewhere that it was two years in development. It looks like a good bike but some issues I identified:

- non-adjustable handlebar post
- large fold-down size
- looks like its going to be VERY pricey

Not sure it will do that well when it reaches market but have no question that it's going to do well on Kickstarter.

GTizzy

Agreed regarding all your points, except I rather liked their website. Did you see the mobile or desktop version? Desktop leads with a video that puts the overall weight into context (two cats, three macbooks, four pineapples) that was, in my opinion, effective and cute.

blakcloud

I thought the bike was pretty interesting. My biggest complaint with my Brompton is when I do carry it, it's heavy. The Hummingbird fixes this problem.

Now a folding bike can't be everything to everyone, there has to be compromises. The question is are you willing to live with these compromises?

As for the website, I wish it was less marketing and be more informative. Maybe the information will be more forthcoming when the Kickstarter campaign starts.

Petre, the designer says he spends "hours a day on bicycle websites", so there is no doubt in my mind he will read this thread and lets us know some of the details.

I wish them luck.

bhkyte

Finding a niche for that design will be tough.
Single speed. No luggage capacity. Large fold. Looks too large and clumsy to carry folded. Does not look like it would work well on a train. Nor would it fit car boots well.
It needs a folding fork to have a chance imho. Looks like a carbon IF move done badly. I like the IF move concept.

I would prefer to get the carbon ori supra instead. About 2 kgs more, with a proper compact fold ,similar to birdie size, proper gears and road race parts for £3K.

craciunptr

Hi Guys,


I am the creator of the bike, thanks for the feedback. In response to some questions the bike will come equipped with mudguards and mounting points. There will be 2 versions of the bike, a single speed and a 5 gear internal hub. The stems will come in 3 sizes S/M/L with riser or flat bars. The bike pictured is just a prototype that I have been riding in London for the past year and I had no problems taking it on the tube/bus/trains.

It was a nice surprise finding this thread here I'm really excited about the launch on Kickstarter and would really appreciate any feedback you might have on improving the design.

Cheers,
Peter

dynaryder

Looks like a modded Brompton. Folding around the BB is a good idea,no need for a tensioner and you could make a regular derailleur work. It does have a rear brake,right? Also,please tell me the 5spd hub isn't going to be Sturmey,they're crap.

GTizzy

Seconded re. Sturmey 5-sp. I really like the niche you've identified though. Good work, and good luck! Pure (simple) function, pure (simple) form.

GTizzy

Also, consider a SRAM Automatix 2-speed

downtube

Peter,

Congratulations on a great looking bike!

Thanks,
Yan

paulthomson

Peter,

Your website has no scrollbar so I am forced to use my scroll wheel on my mouse. This is what I get when I use your website. It auto-scrolls to sections which are cut off by the top nav menu, a real pain in the arse.

using a thinkpad, latest chrome, windows 10. Never have had problems on any other websites but know that smooth-scroll, single page websites are known to have issues like this. It's for this reason i don't like your website, purely because I can't read half of the website. I wish it could be a) more informative, and b) use a traditional design.

just my 2c,
Thanks and good luck,
Paul

bhkyte

Ok you asked for more feedback.......
I have used folders on trains and put them in the luggage area. This bike folded would not do this well its too big an long. It would stick out and be awkward to carry in. You may have used trains differently with your folder.
Like the fact dont need chain tensioner. 5 speed IHG. I would want 8.
My main issue is that non folding top tube bikes tend to have another fold to reduce the folded size.
Ie mezzO,birdie and hellix have folding around the front wheel aspect.
I cant afford rhis bike anyway, just giving feedback.
Goodluck.

Winfried

Why don't you get a pair of Eazy Wheels so you can just leave the bike on the ground and pull it?


Alternatively, let the seat rest on your shoulder so that you don't pull the whole weight with your hand.

Incidently, a Brompton isn't heavier than other folders.

bhkyte

Its often only part of the issue relieved by the ability to wheel a folding bike. I find rolling racks are often thought of being a complete solution. Even allowing for the fact that most standard wheels are wheelable on cracked pavements or any thing other than standard smooth surfaces. Rolling racks require you to bend to push the bike. If you extend the seat post the folded bike is often now unlocked. Often if a train changes platform you need to lift the bike down stairs.

I find the two wheels at the back of my mezzo rack is often all I use as I tilt the bike up fully folded to manouver it most of the time. Even though its fitted with a full custom rolling rack.

I had a diblasi. Heavy folder but had a carry handle on it. Heaviest but also one of the easiest folded bike to carry I have owned. My touring birdie with IHG is also heavy but the easiest folder I have ever used to wheel using the front rack as a handle you pull it behind like a wheeled suitcase.
Light weight has to be a good thing but its only part of a convenient package.

ThorUSA

Peter
welcome the fold
looks like a nice bike

keep I simple,light .. but mke surethat feners carriers , different hubs etc etc will work if customer wants later

tds101 

Very nice.

https://youtu.be/tUC6Z-0ah9A

invisiblehand

Cool.

IMO, weight really matters for a commuter that one is going to pick up frequently.

My quick comment is that you should decide whether the bike is going to be a public transportation commuter or "in the trunk" of a car commuter. During peak commuting periods, the length of your folder is a minus for public transportation in heavily used systems. But the simple fold and solid monotube design should be great for car trunks. I look at your bike and think it's competitor will be something like a Dahon Mu Uno.

invisiblehand

The more I think about it, I don't think the Brompton is a good comparison ... although I understand why one would bring it up. The hummingbird is much lighter; but the Brompton folds much smaller and carries more stuff. I'm guessing that the two bikes will be good at different things.

I think that you should either ...

(1) ... figure out a way to fold the front wheel back to make the length shorter to make the head-to-head Brompton comparison more appealing

or

(2) ... target a different audience -- the car trunk folks that care less about the size of the fold -- and switch your tires to 406 (up to 40 mm wide) and go belt drive.

Don't forget a bike needs fenders. I think folding pedals will be useful for your fold. Maybe have attachment points so one can put a strap on the bike and carry it on one's back or shoulder.

Right now, if I wanted a Brompton, the Hummingbird is not changing my mind.

feijai

The hummingbird folds about its bottom bracket. On your website the claim is made that this causes the chain to always be in tension and thus you never have chain drops. This is a pretty incredible claim, given that chain drops are notorious on other bikes (notably ones from Bike Friday) *because* they fold about the bottom bracket. This is why the tikit, for example, folds ahead of the bottom bracket, so the entire rear triangle (including the bottom bracket) folds as a unit and never drops the chain.

Can you explain this discrepancy?

Other questions:

1. Standard parts and options are important for a bike of this cost. How do you add a rear brake? A rear gearhub? A fixed hub? An ahead stem? Drop bars or sweep bars? Braze-ons for water bottles? Fenders? Along these lines, I'd fold the stem to the other side so you can accommodate drop bars or bullhorn bars.

2. If you're going to have a fold this large, why not have the seatmast fold forward rather than slide down? Like on a tikit. That way a rider would never have to adjust the seatmast.

3. Why do you have a rake on this bike? Rakes are foolish on folding bikes. Just make the fork straight, you'll have a tighter fold *and* a more stable steering bike.

4. This bike is a (1) small-wheeled folder that is (2) carbon fiber and (3) has no suspension and (4) has a rock-hard seat installed in the pictures. This sounds like a worst-case scenario for comfort. Can you at least accommodate a Thudbuster or something?

craciunptr

Hi guys,

We're live on Kickstarter! --> https://kck.st/1ODKIwf

Just clarifying some stuff: the bike in the photos is our prototype. The production version will have fenders. The rear part that is now alluminium will be carbon fiber, which saves some weight and compensates for the fenders and everything else you can fit on it.

The bike will have a rear brake and it will be routed internally. The contact points with the ground will have rubber patches. The bike will also have an integrated handle in the main frame for easier handling.

Also, we will do a 5-speed internal hub version too, as it is on Kickstarter. 16" wheels or 20" wheels.

Thanks!

I will come back later and reply to individual questions.

mingo

Is there an option for an unpainted bike with only a clear coat at the single speed pledge cost?

bhkyte

Ok.
Like the integrated handle idea. And that rear will be CF rather than the allot lattice. Neater,stronger,better looking,easier to clean etc.

Question.
Are the 16 and 20" the same bike with different wheels? Or are the frames different.
If you spin the front wheel around is it more compact to fold?

craciunptr

Hi there,

The bike comes in 3 colours - red, black and yellow, and a 4th option clear coated carbon fibre. After the project ends, we will email everyone and ask what their preference is So good news!

Also, I read some other questions around this thread, so just wanted to clarify some things:

- The Hummingbird that you see on our Kickstarter page is our one and only prototype, that we've been using and testing and using and testing for the past year.
- The production version of the Hummingbird will have both front and rear brakes.
- The production version of the Hummingbird will come with mudguards.
- You will be able to mount a front rack / bag.
- The Hummingbird fits very nicely in a trunk and can be taken in public transportation (tube, bus).

And here are the dimensions of the bike when folded:


Thanks,
Peter

GTizzy

Hey Petre!

I really like the rear aluminum swing arm—don't replace it with carbon!

Keep the alu rear, and pair it with this awesome chainring from Factory Five: https://www.wearefactoryfive.com/pro...tice-chainring

darukhan

Hey Paul,

Take a closer look at those pictures you posted again. There IS a way to scroll on the website. Look at the CENTER BOTTOM and CENTER TOP of the screens... you'll see an up arrow (at top) and down arrow (at bottom). It's a more current website design (although geared more towards mobile and tablet designs) that's becoming more popular these days.