Firochromis

Hi people,

I'm in the process of choosing a folding bike for my wife. She is not a bike person so I'll also planning to use this bike. (You know The Rules.. At least 3 bikes it says...)

After I saw some folding bikes with dropbars my search criterias have been changed. I want to be sure if the selected model can be converted to a dropbar bike with briefters and all. I have a 10 speed Campagnolo Veloce half set after one day I loose my conscious with an open ebay page on my browser.

I can not afford a FB which comes with a dropbar, and besides none of them comes with a Gruppo. So I'll buy a cheaper and brief model to be modified later. My modifications will be:

1. Mount a dropbar on the bike
2. Mount a front derailleur to the seatpost
3. Buy a Campy compatible rear hub and have it applied to the existing rear wheel
4. Do the rest of the work

Some of the stems I saw don't physically permit to mount a dropbar. This criteria eliminates some of the models. Second criteria eliminates even more. Most of the basic models doesn't have front derailluers. And some of the seatposts doesn't have enough clearance to mount a front derailleur. Every Dahon model within my budget is eliminated with this criteria. Tern's do have the clearance but I have to check their seat tube diameter tomorrow in a store. From the pictures, they seem to be thicker than regular road bike seat tubes. In the end, I can live without a front derailluer, but as I said my wife is not a bike person so if it will be one ring then it has to be small. And that'll be inadequate to me. After so much words, my questions are:

1. One Turkish brand folding bike has about 40mm seat tube diameter. Can I find a sort of clamp to use my braze on front derailluer with?
2. Do you think hubs that are produced for full size road bikes can be used in a 20" wheel setup?
3. Any suggestions about this projest?

Regards

prathmann

Just a couple comments on things to watch for. The hub shouldn't be a problem if you get a bike with the correct spacing between the rear dropouts. This can vary quite a bit between brands and many folding bikes are designed for a smaller spacing than is common on regular road bikes. You'll need to check this specification on any bikes you are considering.

On the front derailleur mount be aware that you need to have the mount be at the proper angle. Folding bikes with smaller wheels tend to use larger chain rings to compensate and the combination of a relatively large chain ring with a lower cog placement (due to the smaller 20" or 16" rear wheel) means that a regular front derailleur mount will usually have the cage angled too far forward.

Firochromis

Thank you for your reply. If I decide and manage to use front derailleur, I'll use a Campagnolo 53/39 crankset and 12/25 cassette. Would using a road crankset eliminates this problem?

prathmann

No, there's still a different angle needed for the front derailleur on a folder with small wheels and correspondingly lower position of the cassette cogs.

bhkyte

As someone who has done simular mods 5 times I feel you have the wrong approach. You should look at dual drive and bullbars NOT drops and front mechs.

It depends on what size wheel you want.
16 inch wheels need at least a 56 tooth cog to work with a conventional cassette. More like 60+ to replicate a full road bike then your front drailler compactability is unlikely.
I have done many road race set up folders and I have found that drops dont fold well. Turn them upside down and cut them down like old low profile bars and they fold better.
Drops can be added to single clamp stems like the brompton. You just need to add a stem extender like a abber hallo. You can also alter it to be quick release then it will fold flater.

There are apadters for front mechs available.

I would recomend you get a sram dual drive set up. 27 speeds from one hub compactable with shimano brifter AND it upgears the bike by 36%. Perfect for small wheeled folders. And means that a front mech, and large chainring is not needed. It shifts instantly and makes a front mech shifting look silly by comparison.

I have done all or some of these mods to 5 folders.

If you look at some of my threads there is my go faster dualdrive Mezzo a spare mezzo(for sale at moment), a mission space genie, a brompton, and a downtube that all got the treatment.
The converted downtube was one of my favourate folders from about 20 I have owned.

ThorUSA

for the money which will be spend on questionable approaches ....... like Campa stuff...
it would be much smarter to just buy a nice middle range folder for the wife .... and ready dropar for yourself

u will save money and have 2 folders which actually work for the both of you

pinsonp2 

Dahon 30th Replica looks like a good compromise. You might find a used one on ebay. Also checkout the Dahon vector x27h or the Speed Pro TT. I have the former and like it a lot.

P2

bhkyte

Fair comment.

But part of the point of these forums is to see whats possible and to learn from others.

It is possible to get what the OP wants quite cheaply with some patient buying.
dont go for drops, dont go for campy, if less than 20 inch wheel.
Dont attempt to run a front mech unledd you know you can get an adapter. Get either a IHG or dual drive.
A shimano intenal hub gear is possible to match with brifters also but you need a vera shifter £100.
Bars can be made to fit stems but you may need a stem extender.

Folders with bull bars,or low profiles and a QR stem can be made to fold as flat as standard bars. But not drops handlebars.
Some folders fold with bull bars with out a QR stem. Ie a brompton does with bars that are wide enought to fold either side of the wheel. 45cm afaicr.

What size wheel do you want.

ThorUSA

absolutely true of course

but these are mods for the very experienced folder owner, and as we all know general bike knowledge sometimes gets in the way .lol
I doubt that the wife likes drops or extended bulbar.... with all he hassles of travel agents or brake conversins

invisiblehand

While I agree that it's possible to do better with thrifty shopping and careful planning, I'm in agreement with Thor here. Most of the time experimentation is relatively expensive -- never mind the time involved -- compared to finding a bike built for he purpose.

bhkyte

Yes fair enough. I depends on how much the OP wants the mods he mentions. It doesn't come cheap to get specialist parts.
I would not agree there is a compact folder with the options I have on my mezzos, or what I had on my brommie. If the OP does wants a fast road race originated compact older, they are not available.

Every one with a history of upgrading folders will need a first step
Young Jedi..........

I started with the Downtube after only upgrades to tyres, pedals, and brakes to My Dawoo and Diblasi.

invisiblehand

Absolutely. There further from the mainstream you are, the more likely you'll have to do the work yourself.

bhkyte

The mainstream needs to catch up with me. I am in step.

fietsbob

BikeFriday Pocket Rocket it can have road race parts picks.. They build to order.

they ship around the globe from Oregon .. there is a UK distribution if that is more to your liking,
but they are all made in Eugene.

Adding , have a Custom Made front derailleur Mount that fits onto a Brompton seat tube

and lets you add a front derailleur of the braze on type , and a shift lever to make it shift.

I'll sell It, as a set .. PM ..

Tourist in MSN

Sometimes 10 speed Campy brifters can be used with 8 speed Shimano rear derailleur and cassette. I just set up my rando bike with a 10 speed Campy Veloce brifter and Shimano XT M739 rear derailleur with Sram 8 speed 11/32 cassette. I am not sure which vintages of Campy work this way and which do not. The photo is the Veloce brifter that I am talking about, it works fine with my XT derailleur on an eight speed cassette.



More on mixing Campy and Shimano components here: Shimano & Campagnolo - Can't We All Get Along? Cyclocross Magazine

And other options discussed here: Jtek ShiftMate | Jtek Engineering

I thought I could fit a front derailleur on my foldup bike when I bought it. Could not. I ended up buying a Sram Dual Drive rear hub for more money than I wanted to pay to get the gearing I needed. I am not using the correct shifter on the Dual Drive hub, so I have no suggestion on the best way to shift that with drop bars.

invisiblehand

Generally, you can use 10-speed Campy with 8-speed Shimano and 11-speed Campy with 9-speed Shimano. (X-2) If you have a derailer that can do the alternative hub-bub routing, you can mate 10-speed Campy with 9-speed Shimano. (X-1)

Important details -- such as Shimano Dynasys MTB derailers -- are in this excellent article.

Rear Shifting | CTC



I'm using a Sturmey Archer three speed bar end with one. It appears to be close enough

There is a long tradition of using Shimano STI shifters with SRAM Dual Drives. Turns out that the front derailer cable pull for old Shimano shifters matched that of the DD. However, at some point, Shimano put in a 4th trimming shift which complicates matters somewhat. When each line -- Ultegra, 105, Tiagra, etc. -- of STI includes this 4th shift is varies with the lower end lines getting the 4th shift later.

https://youtu.be/Oj7bPJEMyvc

bhkyte

I have a trim positional on my mezzo. I only noticed after about a few months. In reality I find its still completely intuitive. I think if I do one click to shift up rather than push all the way across it gets between shifts. I would have to think to do this incorrectly.

So mine works like this. 1st postion =1st gear, 2nd =1st, 3rd=2nd 4th =3 gear.
So change up one full push or half push untill it shifts. Change down still takes you to right gears.
I think this is correct.
In reality its a none issue in my experience. Its the best shifter I have ever used.

It may be worth avoiding some older or newer versions of sti?

This is on shimano tiagra sti.

The option that really intersets me is a versa laced to a afline 11 and discs.

Tourist in MSN

Thank you very much. I asked that question some time ago here and got no response. I am using bar end shifters on my foldup bike so this would be perfect.

I have been using my Shimano front friction shifter (left half of the eight speed set) for shifting the dual drive, but friction is clearly not the right way to go.

In fact, the question I asked in May 2013 is below. I assume you are using the SLS30 part number that I cited.

bhkyte

If you set the SA lever to be in second when the Sram dd hub is in secound , as long as the SA pull enough cable I don't see why the SA would not work.
As long as its reasonable engages on slines inside hub. Slipping would quickly show this to be the case.
If thats the case you may need travel agents.

Tourist in MSN

Thanks. I will order one tomorrow.

UPDATED: Ordered, hopefully this will work just great.

bhkyte

Sheldon site says SA is compatable with sach dual drive. However, a sach lever pulls less cable so does not work with an SA hub.

Afaik sach DD and sram are same cable pull?

I have sash and sram dual drive setups on my mezzos that seem to work OK with shimano brifters ok.
Dual drive is easier to set up, possibly due to trim issues on my later shifter mentioned earlier.

invisiblehand

I only added it to the triplet in 2013. So I may not have been entirely positive regarding it's long run prospects.

John Allen suggested elsewhere that it's not a perfect match and didn't seem worried about the difference. But you might keep that in mind over time.

SLS30 sounds familiar. But it's been a while. The real question is whether SA makes any other 3-speed bar end shifter. If the answer is no, then it's almost certainly the same model. I'd be surprised if they changed the cable pull over the last two years.

BruceMetras

Too bad you didn't ask the question on this forum .. I've been using the SA SLS30 R3B bar end shifter for years to shift both the dual drive and Sachs 3 speeds.. never an issue..

invisiblehand

Bruce ...

You're killing me with that adjustable stem.

BruceMetras

Yes, once I get the adjustment that I want with the stock stem, then I modify it to the quill as seen on the Yellow TSR3