born2pdl

I'm interested in an affordable ($400 or less?) performance 20inch wheelset for rim brake. What else is available now on the light weight higher end? Kinetix pro, Folex, Zip, Deca?, HED, control tech, Chinese carbon?

My budget max would be around $400. I weigh 165lbs, and the wheels need to be reliable, trouble free. Lighter on the weight would be the focus more than just aero.

Could also just buy the rims if available separately and lace them to the right hubs. Thanks.

rhenning

What size 20 inch? 406 or 451. What size and width and brand of hubs. IG, multi speed 5,6,7,8,9,10,11 gear. What size rim width as that would change depending on the tires you want. If you use ebay there are lots of wheels availableavaible. For example look up mini velo wheels. Another place would be Bike Friday because they build thir own wheels they would know what works together and is currently available. Roger

ThorUSA

carbon, hed, many others are out of the 400 dlr range ... Dahon Pros are no where to find
Tern Kinetix Pro X would fit the bill

born2pdl

Ok, I want to do a custom build and thought I'd pin down a wheelset, and that might point me to a specific frame or bike. Right, I don't have the bike yet. I've read up on all your bikes for years and I still can't figure out how to choose one. So this is going about it backwards after all, maybe need to pin down the bike first. BTW, I'd like a fast sport bike to use on club rides while traveling. I know about many of the choices, too many: pocket rocket, older dahon TTpro or hammerhead, brompton, (even birdy) and many more. I have most of the group for the build, mainly need frameset and wheelset.

I thought that maybe performance tire selection might point me toward 406 or 451, but it looks like there are 20x28's in both. Or available wheels for my purpose would point me to 406 or 451. Well thorusa has some light wheels in both.

I'm paralyzed with choices. Tough life, right?

rhenning

I have owned one of the first BF Pocket Rockets since 1995ish. If what BF told me is true when I bought it preowned it is frame number 2. I have updated it some over the years and still have not found a reason to buy a new frame. One of the good things about BFs is they use normal off the shelf parts. They also will build a frame that is custom fit for you. In my case I was going to buy a new one and the sales person said they had the preused frame in my size for a bit less money which I bought. It still has the original 451 24 spoke wheels with Shimano 36 hole hubs and Sun MA14 rims. The wheels are light and have been bomb proof. My riding weight is about 200 pounds. Other components have been replaced with newer stuff and I even bolted on dual pivot brakes. Most of the components have been Shimano Ultegra/600 level. Tires have been many over the years in the 451-28 size. I don't think any one tire has been better than another. BF still has the pre owned program so you can always call and see what is available. Roger

smallwheeler

would love to see some pics of this bike, roger. is it a diamond frame? was it built with 1 1/8" headtube or 1 1/4"?

fietsbob

You mean 451 rim , so you run narrow high pressure tires I assume.. that will be most of the gain

over 406 wider tire 20"

then use road rim brakes then , as rim is larger Diameter. brake reach less..


i recc Aluminum rims

braking on carbon is not as effective, and needless overspending, unless rarely used pure race wheels

now Bi Fri has sources for 24 spoke hubs .. Shimano Caprio is made for small wheels a 9~26 t cassette.

HGR3inOK

Have you considered the Tern Verge X18? See Tern folding bike Verge X 18

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

invisiblehand

IMO, this is the most important thing: what you want to do with the bike.

If folded size or quickness of fold are not paramount, then assuming you don't have a huge budget -- I'm eliminating Moultons and something by R English -- Bike Fridays, high-end Dahons, and Airnimals seem like good bets.

Some old thoughts on getting a Bike Friday are below ...

The part-time epistemologist: If you're interested in a Bike Friday ...

Some new thoughts ...

Lately some new choices in ERTO 451 have been popping up such as Schwalbe Ultremos and a handful of quality ~34 mm wide tires crossing over from the BMX world. So if you're really confident that you want relatively skinny tires and getting high gears is an issue -- the slightly larger wheel will help you get above 100 gear inches with a 56-11 chainring-to-cog combination -- then it would be a good choice, IMO. Otherwise 406 gives you slightly lower gearing, with a bigger choice of tires and tubes, while being able to fit fenders with wide tires.

Assuming you're set on 451, based on anecdotes, I'd make sure that the bike is built with 57 mm long reach calipers to leave space for 32-34 mm wide tires. Over the years, the number of folks that have wanted to use wide tires for a tour or a gravel ride or a tire with some knobbies is a decent size. The weight penalty is minimal. And there is no replacement for displacement, IMO. Those extra few mm -- going from 28 to 34 for roughly a 100% increase in air volume -- makes a big difference in comfort and control on less than optimal surfaces. In short, it makes the bike far more useful.

As for a wheels, the high value performance wheelset is probably a handbuilt Velocity A23 wheelset. Relatively light. Supposedly rugged enough for a wide range of uses. Since this is a travel bike, you're probably better off with something rugged and a bit more mundane.

geomild

carbon son

invisiblehand

Oh ... you can always work up a kick but Swift Folder too. I get the sense that it doesn't pack as well as a Bike Friday, but it rides well.

rhenning

Smallwheeler it is kind of buried for the Winter but if I can I will get a picture tomorrow. The best I have on my computer is a picture of it in its travel case. Yes it is a diamond frame and I think the headset is 1" or 1 1/8" but will have to check. Roger

rhenning

I wemt into the garage and can barely see the Friday. This was the best picture I could get of it hanging up. Do not think I will be moving a bunch of bikes to do better tomorrow. Hope this helps. In case you are wondering that is a 57 front sprocket to a 11 in the back. Gears are 46 to 28 low (33 gear inches) and 57 to 11 in high (104 gear inches) with 16 gears total on it. Roger

smallwheeler

thanks for the effort, roger. maybe in the spring when you take it out for a ride you could snap a few pics. i like that vintage sugino mighty comp double... i also have an early diamond frame BF. the bike currently lives down south at my mother's house. i plan on giving it a complete overhaul some time in the spring. i have a really nice velocity uriel wheelset with capreo hubs that i think i'll use for the build.

p.s. to the OP, you should definitely get a bike friday.

rhenning

My wife also has a Bike Friday Pocket Crusoe with the Capreo hub and that is something I would also do. At 67 years of age I am not trying to do the most bling but have good dependable bikes. Roger

invisiblehand

We have two bikes with Capreo hubs. If you're using indexed shifting with a front derailer, it's a good idea to keep the designed rings for the derailer.

I recall that some of the early Bike Fridays actually had a penny welded into the frame as some sort of plug.

smallwheeler

keep the designed rings for the derailer? can you explain what you mean by that? also, excellent post above and very comprehensive blog entry linked. i enjoyed reading that. thanks.

invisiblehand

I'm familiar with Shimano, but from what I understand, this applies to Campy and SRAM. With that caveat and an apology for going over stuff that I suspect you're already fully aware but presented for clarity ...

A front derailer -- say Shimano 105 -- will have a shape appropriate for the chainrings in that group. Last I checked, a Shimano 105 triple has 50-39-30 tooth chainrings with ramps and pins. Consequently, the outside of a Shimano 105 front derailer will have a shape that mimics the 50-tooth chainring while the inner expects a 39. STI needs this optimal setting for crisp shifting. Put a 52- or 53-tooth chainring in there with the 105 front derailer ... something a bit out of spec with ramps and pins ... and STI will still work, IME. But it will get a little sloppy. As you get further out of spec or lose the ramps/pins, STI performance quickly degrades.

However, if I were to friction shift the front derailer with say a bar end, I can still get pretty good shifting at combinations where STI chokes.

My limited experience with Campy where the front shifter has many micro positions suggests that it would be more robust to off-spec combinations. I've never ridden an SRAM brifter.

jur

To improve shifting on my bikes with 60T front ring, I made my own shifting pins. That made such a massive difference.

born2pdl

Thanks everyone for the tips and links. I read a bunch more about it (there's way to much folder info to ever read). Invisible correctly guessed/identified what I'm after. Reasonable budget, higher top speed, lighter weight, conventional drive train. I could start with a used Pocket Rocket (56cm) and go from there. I've been looking to see what pocket rockets are out there. What's a guess at the bike weight in basic road race form without crazy spending? I'll read up on Capreo cassettes compared to 10 or 11 sp conventional.

rhenning

I believe my BF is right around 20 pounds with no weight wienee work done to it. Add 2 full water bottles, a bag with 2 tubes, tools, tire levers, a pump and some food in it the bike is still sub 25 pounds. Roger

chaadster

I'd be curious to know how you did that, as I have an "el cheapo" non-pinned/ramped 60t that could use some improvement.

jur

I drilled and tapped M5 holes next the the chain, screwed in M5 stainless bolts, and ground them down so only about 0.5-1mm sticks out. I'll take some pics later. I uased a high strength Loctite to make sure they stay put.

chaadster

@jur, thanks!

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