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Old 02-23-16, 03:16 PM   #1
Winfried
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Touring with a BikeFriday: Pocket Llama or New World Tourist?

Hello

As an alternative to the Brompton for touring, I'm looking at two models from BikeFriday: The Pocket Llama or the New World Tourist.

I know BikeFriday is badly distributed in Europe, but I'm willing to take the chance.

Does someone how those two models differ?

Thank you.
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Old 02-23-16, 03:38 PM   #2
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I went through this decision-making recently and went with the NWT (Pocket Llama = PL). I didn't need the higher bottom bracket height of the PL and ability to put very wide tires on it. That is the main difference, and the Pocket Llama is about 1 pound heavier.

So, it depends on your needs (offroad+on-road PL, on road + occasional gravel etc. NWT).

BTW - I got mine in mid-December and promptly rode it across the state of Florida (5 days and about 260 miles) and since have added about 400 miles to that. I really like the way it rides, and how easy it is to put in my office or store it away at home. That is, without folding it. I got it to fit into a suitcase, but not a bus. I use my Mezzo for quick folds.

Also, the service from Bike Friday is unparalleled (in my experience of purchasing MANY bikes over the years). I know one can buy direct from Green Gear from the US, so maybe so in Europe.
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Old 02-23-16, 03:52 PM   #3
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When I got my bike (the bike shop didn t really advice me ) I made.the mistake and.I bought a NWT ,if I could buy another bike today I will go for the Pocket Llama because of the bottom bracket height and the ability to put very wide tires on it and I will also buy it with the easy pack mast.Anyway I wish I could find an alternative for BF...
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Old 02-23-16, 04:13 PM   #4
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Thanks much. I guess I'll go for the NWT + EZ Pack Mast then, since I mostly ride on paved roads with occasional gravel.
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Old 02-23-16, 04:24 PM   #5
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Higher BB , you dont hit a pedal, pedaling around corners,

I pull to the curb or get off the saddle to put a foot down ..

PL Rear comes to a Mono stay , NWT 2 separate tubes.

Now there is a relocation of the BB shell That has changed the NWT.. the BB is part of the rear section
Probably better with an IGH, as the chain can be tensioned with the adjustable dropouts
designed with the Tikit for IGH in It.

PL has a Hinge behind the BB and the BB is Part of the main frame .. (R'off needs a Chain tensioner )

FWIW My PL came with a CK Grip-nut headset the steerer tube threaded but not slotted .

It has a 1" quill folding Steering Mast .. now .. (some one else's custom Built to Order)

I'm contemplating a non folding one .. Quill tube core, a tube like a regular steerer gripping around that

and a sleeve of spacer tubing around It for stiffness ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-24-16 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 02-24-16, 03:12 AM   #6
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Thanks for the infos.
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Old 02-24-16, 03:25 AM   #7
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Machka and I have Pocket Llamas that we picked up directly from the factory. We like them and their adaptability to different styles of riding, which I suppose comes down to wheels as much as anything else.We've been running 28mm Schwalbe Duranos for road rides and a little bit of gravel riding. We've done a century, and other rides up to 85km on them. They've been comfortable.

This weekend, we are riding off-road on an island that prohibits motor vehicles except for National Parks ones. I've put a pair of Maxxis MaxxDaddy BMX tyres that measure 2" in width. they fit nicely, and I am looking forward to riding them this weekend. There is still plenty of room between the chainstays and fork blades.

The Llamas were always chosen for the higher BB and the ability for us to go off-road. They have been solid on the road (and off when we have gone there). Bike Fridays, as I have discovered, have their idiosyncracies -- such as making sure the quick release on the steerer insert is really tight, and fiddling with the chainring and chain when folding/unfolding, and removing the disc on the front wheel to ensure it doesn't get bent.

I didn't much like the cheap and nasty plastic bidon cage. Yes, I know that it's meant to bend out of shape to let the seat mast fold down fully, but it also should be strong enough to not break away from the braze-ons after only a few uses.

Anyway, because of the shrinking airline limits on suitcases, I've take to removing the seat mast when packing. and may even adopt a QR for that location.

So far, we've done three international flights, and five local flights with the bikes, and have been happy with how it's all gone. They have already proved their worth, in my estimation, in saved airline fees, and more importantly, getting about airports and to and from accommodation.

We don't have any experience with the NWT.
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Old 02-24-16, 11:52 AM   #8
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I have found the Inherent benefit of a Center lock disc hub , is the ability to easily remove the disc for packing.

Schmidt uses the center lock on the front dynamo-hub , Shimano Compatible , or using a 6 bolt to center lock adapter.


they Bike Friday ship Internationally from the factory , in Eugene Oregon ..

Or like Machka and Rowan , You can Fly to the Eugene Airport take the bus into town,

and pick it up when It is scheduled to be finished ..

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Old 02-24-16, 02:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
Hello

As an alternative to the Brompton for touring, I'm looking at two models from BikeFriday: The Pocket Llama or the New World Tourist.

I know BikeFriday is badly distributed in Europe, but I'm willing to take the chance.

Does someone how those two models differ?

Thank you.
In short ...

NWT has a lower BB with a ~2" max tire width ... with disc brakes, people are regularly using Big Apples on the Facebook group.

Llama is somewhat heavier and ~2.15" max tire width.
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Old 02-24-16, 02:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Now there is a relocation of the BB shell That has changed the NWT.. the BB is part of the rear section
Probably better with an IGH, as the chain can be tensioned with the adjustable dropouts
designed with the Tikit for IGH in It.
Is that standard or an option?

I vaguely recall that it's an option.
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Old 02-24-16, 03:11 PM   #11
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If you order it with an IGH they will use a different rear dropout than if you spec a derailleur drive train .

They're made like Lunch at a cafe ..

your Build ticket comes up and its built , to your menu picks , when you are the front of the queue.

Last edited by fietsbob; 05-05-16 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 02-24-16, 04:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Is that standard or an option?

I vaguely recall that it's an option.
I remember it being either $200 or $250 extra.
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Old 02-24-16, 07:40 PM   #13
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I remember it being either $200 or $250 extra.
That's sounds right to me.

Having the pivot around the BB is nicer for quick folding but worse for packing.
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Old 02-25-16, 03:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
I have found the Inherent benefit of a Center lock disc hub , is the ability to easily remove the disc for packing.

Schmidt uses the center lock on the front dynamo-hub , Shimano Compatible , or using a 6 bolt to center lock adapter.


they Bike Friday ship Internationally from the factory , in Eugene Oregon ..

Or like Machka and Rowan , You can Fly to the Eugene Airport take the bus into town,

and pick it up when It is scheduled to be finished ..
Yes to the centrelock hubs, but we went with the SRAM groupset that was on the bikes. I might look at the centrelocks some time in the future. For now, the time cost in undoing and doing up the six bolts on each front-wheel discs isn't large.
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Old 02-25-16, 09:20 AM   #15
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In short ... NWT has a lower BB with a ~2" max tire width ... with disc brakes, people are regularly using Big Apples on the Facebook group. Llama is somewhat heavier and ~2.15" max tire width.
Thanks for the infos.
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Old 02-26-16, 01:12 PM   #16
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Thanks for the infos.
Anytime bud.
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Old 03-04-16, 11:13 PM   #17
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i own a nwt diamond , and i just finish a 3000km trip in southeast asia , use a nitto type cargo , it as strong as the big one like surly lht ,even better. except sometimes riding in sands or jungle
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Old 03-05-16, 03:07 PM   #18
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Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 05-05-16, 02:15 PM   #19
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I have been following your posts and I see in your earlier photos you both rode standard bikes. How do the Bike Fridays compare as to ride? The company says that they feel like a regular bike. Is that your experience? Thank you.

Mona
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Old 05-05-16, 03:45 PM   #20
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As a Touring bike .. and with low trail steering geometry they ride best with a front Pannier load ..

and when carrying a front load many consider a Low Trail geometry best.
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Old 05-11-16, 04:22 AM   #21
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I have been following your posts and I see in your earlier photos you both rode standard bikes. How do the Bike Fridays compare as to ride? The company says that they feel like a regular bike. Is that your experience? Thank you.

Mona

Hi Mona

I am not sure if you are referring to my post, and if you are...

I find the Pocket Llamas to be a great bike to ride, whether with narrow Schwable Durano slicks, or much wider Maxxis MaxxDaddy BMX tyres for offroad use.

Essentially, on the road, I don't feel much difference between the diamond frame bikes I ride, and the BF. Bear in mind the Pocket Llama has the higher bottom bracket and is designed for MTB-like riding, but I find it pretty darned good for a road bike. Machka and I have done a century on ours, and have felt comfortable all the way. We wouldn't hesitate to do more. The bike points and corners well; of course, that's subjective, but they hold up well against the big-framed bikes.

Ride comfort is a factor of the tyres, as well as the frame. And the short answer is... I feel like I am riding a diamond-framed bike. The narrower, high-pressure tyres are no impediment to this. The wider BMX tyres handle gravel and potholes well... although really rough surfaces with large rocks do challenge the small-diameter wheels/tyres. The suspension seatpost helps, although I am considering a CF non-suspension one to experiment and see if there is a saving in weight without compromising comfort.

I always prefer to tour with panniers on the rear, and have had no issues with handling with the road tyres.
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Old 05-11-16, 05:35 AM   #22
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Bike Friday

Thank you! This is exactly the information I was looking for. It indicates that BF is as versatile as they say it is. Please keep posting about your travels as I find them very enjoyable. I am traveling vicariously through you and Machka!

Best,

Mona
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