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Old 05-15-16, 12:29 AM   #1
ADAP7IVE
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Does anyone own a Tern Verge S8i?

Looking for more info on this bike. Lots of love online for the Link models and some of the Verge models, but I can't seem to find reviews for the Verge S8i (this bike: http://www.ternbicycles.com/bikes/471/verge-s8i). I'm going to get a folder in the next six months, and this one is high on my list to test-ride. I'm having difficulty finding one close by, and I may need to travel to Kobe or Osaka to find one. Before that, has anyone tried this and can comment on its stability, durability, comfort? It's probably going to be this or a Brommie, after test rides (unless of course the test rides go badly and I go back to the drawing board).

Thanks!

Last edited by ADAP7IVE; 05-15-16 at 12:41 AM. Reason: added info
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Old 05-15-16, 06:29 AM   #2
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Right now, any Tern is birota non grata.

They have proven extremely dangerous, frames snapping at the middle hinge without warning. You are strongly advised not to get a Tern.
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Old 05-15-16, 09:50 AM   #3
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Right now, any Tern is birota non grata.

They have proven extremely dangerous, frames snapping at the middle hinge without warning. You are strongly advised not to get a Tern.
Such a shame, cause it's a great idea for a bike--belt drive, IGH, hub dynamo. I have seen some of the shearing incidents and recall from 2013 and 2014, but is this still happening?

One way to look at it, I suppose, is to avoid any company with such a well-documented and recent major failure rate.

Maybe the Dahon Mu Uno could do well enough, and at a much lower price. Or I just take the plunge on the Brompton and just deal with maintaining the chain (something I'm not a fan of).
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Old 05-15-16, 10:07 AM   #4
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Actually, if you would have looked a few threads down, you would have seen the new thread with the new recall. Here's the link: Expanded Tern recall
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Old 05-15-16, 10:10 AM   #5
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Thank you.
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Old 05-15-16, 11:06 AM   #6
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If you want a belt drive, this is another option. https://www.bikefriday.com/bicycles/models?select=17503 Same price range as the Bromptons.
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Old 05-15-16, 04:34 PM   #7
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Downtube has what looks like a great value ($729) in an 8 speed folder with belt drive:

Downtube 8H Shimano Nexus - Downtube

It doesn't "look" as beefy as the Tern, but I'm not reading about Downtube frames snapping in two. It won't fold like a Brompton, but I'd expect it will ride better.
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Old 05-15-16, 06:36 PM   #8
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If you want a belt drive, this is another option. https://www.bikefriday.com/bicycles/models?select=17503 Same price range as the Bromptons.
Yeah, and BF is definitely well-loved. They have a good reputation from the reading I've done.

I'm really liking their models with disc brakes, too. Probably would do that.

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Old 05-15-16, 06:37 PM   #9
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Downtube has what looks like a great value ($729) in an 8 speed folder with belt drive:

Downtube 8H Shimano Nexus - Downtube

It doesn't "look" as beefy as the Tern, but I'm not reading about Downtube frames snapping in two. It won't fold like a Brompton, but I'd expect it will ride better.
I continue to hear more and more good things about Downtube. I may just go with that, though I live in Japan and he doesn't have a Japanese distributor for me to test-ride.
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Old 05-15-16, 07:48 PM   #10
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I continue to hear more and more good things about Downtube. I may just go with that, though I live in Japan and he doesn't have a Japanese distributor for me to test-ride.
I will give you a free bike, if you can get a distributor in Japan to buy a container.

FYI the new 2016 8H's have disc front hubs, and disc tabs on the fork. I also changed the gearing with 60T front chainring and 22T rear cog. I expect they will clear customs in the USA very soon. You will probably find some reviews on this forum in a week or two.

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Old 05-15-16, 07:57 PM   #11
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I will give you a free bike, if you can get a distributor in Japan to buy a container.

FYI the new 2016 8H's have disc front hubs, and disc tabs on the fork. I also changed the gearing with 60T front chainring and 22T rear cog. I expect they will clear customs in the USA very soon. You will probably find some reviews on this forum in a week or two.

Thanks,
Yan
Hi, Yan, nice to hear from you again.

I wouldn't mind at all helping you find a distributor in Japan and even doing a little translation, regardless of payment. I simply have no idea how bicycle sales, container orders, and distribution work. That's why I was hesitant before to say, "yes, I can do that!"

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Old 05-15-16, 08:19 PM   #12
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ADAP7IVE i'd also say if you want a belt drive get a downtube. they've been proven on these forums here with basically zero frame incidents and supported by the owner on there if you have anything. with the downtube it's good to go. with a dahon uno you will have to tweak it around and rebuild a wheel and setup a belt drive train which is more $$$ and require actual know how on doing it.

You'll probably notice on my profile I ride a Tern. But it is one of the very earliest Terns that came out of the factories and escaped all the recalls so it's been riding super solid and an amazing bike. But even I cannot vouch for you to get a new Tern right now with the way things are going. I would probably recommend them again if I don't hear any further recalls in 3-4 years time. Which if there are still flaws you would see them pop out again.
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Old 05-15-16, 09:02 PM   #13
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ADAP7IVE i'd also say if you want a belt drive get a downtube. they've been proven on these forums here with basically zero frame incidents and supported by the owner on there if you have anything. with the downtube it's good to go. with a dahon uno you will have to tweak it around and rebuild a wheel and setup a belt drive train which is more $$$ and require actual know how on doing it.

You'll probably notice on my profile I ride a Tern. But it is one of the very earliest Terns that came out of the factories and escaped all the recalls so it's been riding super solid and an amazing bike. But even I cannot vouch for you to get a new Tern right now with the way things are going. I would probably recommend them again if I don't hear any further recalls in 3-4 years time. Which if there are still flaws you would see them pop out again.
Thanks for the advice. You're right, I see lot of praise for Yan's bikes on these forums, so I would not mind owning one at all. I thought the Mu Uno came with a belt-drive, though? (DAHON Mu Uno - DAHON)

Too bad about the Terns, but I'll keep an eye on them in the years to come.
@downtube : I can't yet send private messages because of the forum rules, but I got your message. Is it okay to email you?
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Old 05-15-16, 09:57 PM   #14
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Hey Adaptive,

Note, the recall from Tern concerns the same group of bikes that were recalled in 2013, according to the release on the Consumer Product Safety website: http://www.cpsc.gov/vi-VN/Recalls/20...ding-Bicycles/

If they were recalling 2015 bikes, then I'd see cause for concern, but recalls are par for the course in the industry.

Search 'bicycle' at the CPSC website (Search Results: bicycles) and you get 375+ results from Enve, Specialized, SRAM, Louis Garneau, Uvex, and Nashbar in the first two pages. I've played around with the S8i at Interbike and Taipei Cycle, and can gladly vouch for the design (which is reinforced / gusseted around the hinge if I recall).
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Old 05-15-16, 11:52 PM   #15
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Hey Adaptive,

Note, the recall from Tern concerns the same group of bikes that were recalled in 2013, according to the release on the Consumer Product Safety website: www.cpsc.gov/vi-VN/Recalls/2016/Stile-Products-Expands-Recall-of-Tern-Folding-Bicycles/

If they were recalling 2015 bikes, then I'd see cause for concern, but recalls are par for the course in the industry.

Search 'bicycle' at the CPSC website (Search Results: bicycles) and you get 375+ results from Enve, Specialized, SRAM, Louis Garneau, Uvex, and Nashbar in the first two pages. I've played around with the S8i at Interbike and Taipei Cycle, and can gladly vouch for the design (which is reinforced / gusseted around the hinge if I recall).
Thanks for the reminder, it is helpful to keep in mind that the recalls affect the same group of bikes. As always I would prefer to test-ride before dropping so much money, so I'm still hoping I can find one and test ride/check the welds and joints myself. All options are on the table until I can test them.
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Old 05-16-16, 12:17 AM   #16
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It would be great If you could post pics of the welds at the bottom of the hinge.
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Old 05-16-16, 12:27 AM   #17
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It would be great If you could post pics of the welds at the bottom of the hinge.
I dunno if @WCycles has any of those pics, but if I can find one to test ride, I'll be sure to take some pictures and post them.
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Old 05-16-16, 06:30 AM   #18
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Hey Adaptive,

Note, the recall from Tern concerns the same group of bikes that were recalled in 2013, according to the release on the Consumer Product Safety website: http://www.cpsc.gov/vi-VN/Recalls/20...ding-Bicycles/

If they were recalling 2015 bikes, then I'd see cause for concern, but recalls are par for the course in the industry.

Search 'bicycle' at the CPSC website (Search Results: bicycles) and you get 375+ results from Enve, Specialized, SRAM, Louis Garneau, Uvex, and Nashbar in the first two pages. I've played around with the S8i at Interbike and Taipei Cycle, and can gladly vouch for the design (which is reinforced / gusseted around the hinge if I recall).
This is the problem with information about Tern failures. On their forum they had posers supporting the company even as the failure rate was increasing and no actions were being taken. I think it is highly likely WCycles is planted to change the direction of the conversation. Let's look at the facts....

The first recall was in 2013, then the second was in 2014. The most recent expanded recall covered bikes sold in April 2016. I find it highly unlikely that 2013 bikes were sitting around for 3 years until they sold. Tern's level of honestly has not been at the level I would expect.

I had a troubling situation a long time ago 2007 or 2008 I had a customer in Canada that emailed me his front fork broke and he fell and got hurt. He simply asked for a replacement fork. I instantly refunded him the cost of the bike & shipping and sent him a brand new replacement 8FH ( $500-$600/each ) bike to Canada. A few weeks later I emailed to ask how the new bike was holding up and he told me he put a front hub motor on it again and it broke again and he was not well. He was deceitful about the first failure, he never told me he put a front hub motor on the bike. Regardless I believe I acted properly. I can say everyone I know in my industry would do the same. I dealt with Dahon for years, they would step up to the plate right away.

The stuff in the Tern forum is just unbelievable:

#1 Horrible failures with serious injuries
#2 Josh Hon in his forum at one point claims the failures were not statistically significant due to their high sales volume....oh my. I can say the failures WERE statistically significant ( I'm a mathematician ).
#3 The forum was closed to the public
#4 Failure rates increased and nothing happened
#5 Several customers were left with broken frames, and were not given replacements for a long time. I recall one woman that was blamed for the failure ( Nothing was offered from the dealer at the time of failure )
#6 Several members of the forum were planted to change the tone....which was impossible. Most just ignored them.
#7 There has been no explanation from Tern on the cause of the issue, but it has spanned two factories and three different time periods: 2013, 2014, 2016.
#8 After many months of posting on their forum I gave up to run my own business. Everyone assumed I was posting to help my business, and I got alot of negative energy from many members. The truth is my sales dropped while I was distracted with this nonsense. Once I got back to my business sales have been booming. We doubled in 2015, and have grown 2.5 times so far this season.

There is much more troubling stuff to find in their forum. I have backed it up locally. I assume law enforcement will need a copy in the future.

Sorry WCycles technicalities are distractions, let's focus on real issues. No other bike company has ever had this kind of stuff in my 25+ years in the industry....there are no bicycle companies to compare with.


Thanks,
Yan
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Old 05-16-16, 06:45 AM   #19
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Another giveaway is that that was WCycles first and only post. Who's Tern trying to kid?
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Old 05-16-16, 08:47 AM   #20
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Thanks for the advice. You're right, I see lot of praise for Yan's bikes on these forums, so I would not mind owning one at all. I thought the Mu Uno came with a belt-drive, though? (DAHON Mu Uno - DAHON)
oh wow nice, I guess something like that might be available in japan but for sure the mu uno in north america is chain only. also I switched to dahon japan and even they do not carry that belt drive mu uno. usually it's a problem to get certain dahon bikes that are not available in your country and would probably cost quite a bit in shipping to grab it from a store from the country selling it.
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Old 05-16-16, 09:18 AM   #21
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Hey Yan, I must be blind. Is there no forum for Downtube? I would of thought for sure there would be one.
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Old 05-16-16, 09:22 AM   #22
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Thanks for the reminder, it is helpful to keep in mind that the recalls affect the same group of bikes. As always I would prefer to test-ride before dropping so much money, so I'm still hoping I can find one and test ride/check the welds and joints myself. All options are on the table until I can test them.
Ya, you have to keep in in perspective. There are some great local folders you can get here in Tokyo, no need to order from abroad IMO. I'm doing the same with my 2nd Tern Eclipse Uno (IGH, Dynamo, etc.), well except for the belt drive. Although I've been toying with the idea of going belt on my Civia...

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Old 05-16-16, 10:46 AM   #23
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Hey Yan, I must be blind. Is there no forum for Downtube? I would of thought for sure there would be one.
Blind....not quite. You probably have 20/20 vision. We don't have a forum.

Thanks
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Old 05-16-16, 02:55 PM   #24
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Ya, you have to keep in in perspective. There are some great local folders you can get here in Tokyo, no need to order from abroad IMO. I'm doing the same with my 2nd Tern Eclipse Uno (IGH, Dynamo, etc.), well except for the belt drive. Although I've been toying with the idea of going belt on my Civia...
I agree, and I'll choose to order through a shop here if I can. Unfortunately, I'm out in Tokushima. The closest Brompton dealer (for test rides, etc) is in Kobe, Bike Friday is Osaka. But we do have Dahon and Tern dealers here.
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Old 05-16-16, 02:57 PM   #25
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oh wow nice, I guess something like that might be available in japan but for sure the mu uno in north america is chain only. also I switched to dahon japan and even they do not carry that belt drive mu uno. usually it's a problem to get certain dahon bikes that are not available in your country and would probably cost quite a bit in shipping to grab it from a store from the country selling it.
I noticed that too, with Tern's US vs. Japan shop. Such a pain.
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