burnfatburn

how about 'Folding handelbar', or 'smart parking head'

linberl

Here's another option, and it is not very expensive! https://www.facebook.com/FlipCrown

tds101 

This doesn't work for a threadless headset, and it STILL requires the use of an allen key. Too involved.

tcs

Dahon Groove

Didn't sell.

tds101 

The whole point of a folding bike is that it folds. Not semi-folds, etc. If a person wants a semi-folder, get a minivelo, and put folding parts/components on it. In the USA there's no desire for a semi-folding bike.

While the Dahon bikes with lockjaw tech are nice, it's unrealistic for the average person to use. And as much as some members of the forum extol it's virtue, and swear by the lockjaw "folding" bikes, they don't work for the average commuter or most people on tour. If you need to constantly take an Allen key out to fold & unfold a bike, it's counterproductive. Folding bikes tend to "attempt" simplicity, and quick easy folding. A semi-folder isn't simple or quick. And they tend to be banned from trains (in some locations, not all), busses, and won't fit in a cab or friends car.

I like semi-folding bikes, but in NYC, where multi-modal commuting is a way of life, they are somewhat unrealistic. They work on the light rail trains in the city areas, but no busses, and are only allowed at limited times on the LIRR I'm required to take. Remember, I work for MTA/NYCT. We allow all bikes, at all times, on the IRT/IND/BMT. But, on the busses, only folding bikes are allowed. TRUE folding bikes,...NOT semi-folders.

northernlights

Never heard of the Dahon Groove. I doubt it was ever widely available or marketed as a compact or semi-folding bike.
By that I mean marketing it as having the space saving benefits of a smaller compact bike while still retaining the strength of a one-piece non-folding frame, as well as a lower price tag than a folding bike. If people aren't made aware of the benefits there's no reason for them to choose it over a compact folding bike, or full size non-folding bike if they can't afford the former.

Azreal911

As much as you want such a category I've seen some full sized bikes in the past trying this. One was on kickstarter a fixie with a stem which you can rotate and folding pedals which you can lean flat against a wall at home, that pretty much disappeared or I haven't heard anything about it after. But the market is small already for folders in general so this is even going to have less of a demand since it's not fully meeting the demand of one group or the other (folders vs non folders) it's kinda wishy washy on what the bike is trying to be. Even with a bike like this:

Urbanite 20something - Urbane Cyclist Bicycle Store | Toronto M5T 1R9

folding down the handlebars and pedals would probably save you some space but the benefits aren't big enough to attract an entire market. Most would rather keep it as a solid rigid bike that they can ride hard on. Also to expect a lower price tag on something that is probably sold in small numbers would be hard for any company to justify if the economies of scale are not there for it. Even the one I listed is already more expensive than the average full sized bikes in department stores with it's custom frame.

I'm with tds101 on this one it seems just like a halfway compromise that it's not really a folder and folds flat but takes up a similar space of a full sized bike still. With this it may be thinner but in the subway it would still be something that would block quite a bit of walk through space vs a folding bike. A 20" folding bike would take up space of a person standing with a bag while some halfway fold like that would probably take up the same amount of square footage but it's spread out right across which for trains would be an issue when it gets crowded and people are trying to get past you. At that point it's pretty much no different from bringing a non folding bike in there.

Also with this type of bike you can easily make it yourself which is probably why there isn't much of a market for it (Any bike minivelo or 20" wheeled solid frame with a special folding handlebars and folding pedals and you are done). Anyone can build this with just parts on their own as suggested by all the forum members here. But they cannot build a folding bike on there own without fully testing the safety of the folding joints and design.

fietsbob

Rather than wishing, start your own Company and have what you want, Made..

tds101 

I agree,...create a company that designs and builds what you want. Test the waters, and see if the demand for a semi-folding bike is there. I, personally, would be out of the loop.

northernlights

A niche product like this wouldn't be successful built from scratch by an unknown company. The startup costs would be too great for such a small niche item, it would be a loser. OTOH it would be very simple for an established company such as Dahon for example to offer a non-folding or semi-folding version of their folding bikes. It would be exactly the same except the frame doesn't fold, and the price would be accordingly lower. It would cost them literally nothing.



Because it makes zero economic sense to start a company based on such a niche market, unless you like losing money. This product is a subcategory of an already niche market or a niche of a niche if you will. It would have to come from an already established company to introduce and offer it in their product line.

fietsbob

So Who is this Them?

Bring a Line of Credit to the Taipei Bike trade show ,
write up a complete CAD Drawing set + manufacturing Programs for the CNC machines
and bring it on a Lap top to play it on and download...


This forum wont do anything For You.

No 'You Guys should' committee meetings will happen.. the quorum is Zero.

tds101 

Well then,...why are you getting so worked up? If you can't accept what we ALL have to say, there's really nothing else we can suggest. Especially since minivelo's are a no-go in pretty much all of North America, and what your're desiring is basically a minivelo with a few folding components/parts. Either stop complaining about how it's unrealistic to do it on your own (financially), or go the KickStarter route and see where it leads.

Think about it,...how many people have an idea, it totally bombs,...and then a few years later someone comes along and the time is right for it. Test the waters, as we may all be amazed at your success (and we may be 100% incorrect).

Azreal911

Dahon or most companies won't be wasting money or time building a subcategory of a already niche product. I really doubt they got this big by selling bikes that no one really wants and that would also require them to market the hell out of it when their existing product sells really well already. What you are asking a company to do here is to waste resources to build a product that no one was really looking for. To say it will cost them literally nothing is a HUGE misconception! any frame they actually sell have to undergo rigorous standards testing (depending on the country you sell to you would have multiple tests) folding or non folding as well as warehousing the frames. Also when you are making them build these "niche" products they are not building their main product that sells pretty well already. If you want to see this category even start you'll have to do it yourself but I doubt you can convince the big players that there is even a market for such a thing.

oh and also to speak on your other quote that people would not buy into something from a no name company that just started up:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ke/description

that kind of throws your argument there for a loop.

but this is what you where trying to make companies sell which is already the second time i've seen on kick starter.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...?ref=discovery

This seems to already tell you there is almost very little to no demand for such an item so it's already a failure to even think of starting. Spending money to market something that no one wants or needs is kind of a lousy business practice in my mind. Big companies don't really want to even start selling sure failures. If the product or design was good, all it would need is word of mouth to start up a storm on the internet these days but this was at most a light trickle.

But what you are wanting is a non folding folding bike frame with a long folding stem that can fold down which from my mind is a HORRIBLE design, you have the flexible stem of a folding bike vs the stiffness of a short stem mini velo and then you don't have a folding compactness of a folding bike which now takes up as much space as a full size bike because of the long package now. It basically does nothing great in either spectrum.

tds101 

As Azreal911 has shown, not all designs are a success. A folding bike is desireable, and a partial folder, not so much. That is, unless a new idea shows up perhaps. Me, either a full-on folder, or a non-folding bike. I will do rotating/collapsing handlebars, quick release wheels, etc. But, these are all easily done mods ANY bike owner can do. It's just about how easily the parts are available,...and they're not. I had to figure out, on my own, how to mod my full sized folding bike stem to rotate (using a quick release, as an allen key will eventually strip the handlebar stem), so I could get it on a train that has restrictions on the type of bike I can bring on during the hours I'm REQUIRED to ride it. I figured out a solution, and no one else knew what to do. People here in the forums tried to assist, but my easy solution wasn't well known.

You have a personal desire to do something that has been attempted before with little to no success. Create a few mods on your own. See how they work,...then see if people are interested. 99% of the middle of the road ideas just don't make it, no matter how well thought out and practical they are.

Diode100

This was done by German company some years back:-

https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bi...ng-german.html

tds101 

No pics OR active links in the link you provided.

Diode100

that was an old thread, try this one ;-

.: Compactbike :.

fietsbob

In kick starter funding mode , for development& production tooling money , is a Bike Friday Backpack bike..

No joke and about time! New Bike Breakthrough from Bike Friday

partial fold, the rear section, and the rest quickly removable seat and handle bar masts
and made to be fairly light, but still steel..

tds101 

If I still lived in my old home I'd want this,...

Here's my Lombardo Power2000, and it has a few changes to it. All it needs now is the NVO Stem w/a quick release,...

I do like minivelo's, and I'd personally luv a semi-folding bike,...but the rest of North America doesn't share our desires.

northernlights

We're talking about a simple modification to an existing design, not building a bike from scratch.

Those are fully folding bikes that aren't even for sale yet so their success or failure is yet to be undetermined.
Both look like very high-end bikes that will probably price in the thousands, when and if they become available for purchase, which doesn't meet my criteria for affordability.



Interesting, but both are $800 bikes which doesn't meet my affordability threshold ( I would put at under five or six hundred US dollars).

I'm a consumer and end-user of bicycles not a producer.

tds101 

Most here are consumer end users, but we're also realistic about the current state of the market. f it's not available, make your own. Get a minivelo, do some searching for (inexpensive) parts, do a mod or 3. It's not perfect, but it's what it is.

PS: Here's the link to the NVO stem. Replace the 1 bolt with a quick release and the stem is easily removed and rotated sideways for easier transport/storage.

https://nvocomponents.com/product/tm2-ds-dual-slot/

northernlights

Yes that's exactly what I meant.


The minivelo looks too tall; like a regular road bike but with 20 inch wheels. In most cars I can just fit my Tern Link D8 into the trunk with just the handlepost/handlebars, pedals and seatpost folded down, without folding the frame. The minivelo would probably not fit (too tall, non-folding handlebars, non-collapsible seatpost).

tds101 

Then the only other option would be a Xootr Swift,... As for my minivelo, it was a racing bike. That's why it's so upright,... Amazingly quick & comfy ride.

northernlights

The minivelo is definitely a nice looking bike. I would still consider it just because it looks so cool, though I'd have to get it with a flat bar. I might be able to squeeze it in the trunk with a quick release tire and NVO stem.

tds101 

It has a set of quick release wheels, and it originally came with a flat bar and lower stem. I get bad neck and shoulder pain if I'm too forward, so I went with a modified upright position. And yes, an NVO stem and folding pedals would work wonders for it.