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Old 08-02-17, 08:08 PM   #101
pinholecam
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Originally Posted by Rick Imby View Post
A fairly even comparison would be Jur on his Titanium Swift vs Jur on the Road bike he used to ride. Both are /were Tricked out to the max.

There are easy roll out comparison plans that could compare two maxed out road bikes. We just need to find one guy with both a really nice 20" and a really nice 700c that wants to spend significant time riding both bikes.--

I have good bikes for both 700c and 406, and I do ride a fair bit (in fact, 380-400km/week for the past 3 weeks on these mix of bikes since I signed up for some silly 2017km challenge )
Raleigh MV8 (good wheels; Sora 60T/11-30T; Road bar setup)
Moulton TSR (good wheels; XT 55/11-36T; Road bar setup)
Tyrell IVE (good wheels, Saint 55/11-36T; flatbar setup - but when I lean down all the way for speed, its probably the lowest position of all my bikes)
The Tribike always carries x2 750ml bidons compared to only x1 for the Raleigh and Moulton, so its 750gm more if that matters.


My small bikes all give guys on more expensive mini velos a run for their money.
"Ideally" though, I would love a BF Pocket Rocket PRO with Dura Ace, 6-7kg.... maybe I'll get to that someday.


There is at least 3kph ave speed difference between the RB and the 3 small bikes.


To get the 'same' is not possible.
Too many differences to nit-pick on.
Frame is diff, wheel size diff, Aero characteristics, rider position, groupset diff
Eg. Is a Tyrell AM7 hub the equivalent to a Campagnolo Zonda? (there's just no measurement to such things)

So IMO, we will never get to 'same'.
I'm satisfied that with the same rider (ie. me), the speed is different.
However, at the end of a 200km brevet, after the beer and dinner, I just fold my Tyrell IVE and take a train home, while my friends discuss over sharing taxi or riding back.

Same thing with travel.
I just fold my bike and load up a coach (while friends on road bikes have to find out in advance if their bikes can be accepted; take off various parts to load up)
On flights, my foldie just goes into a box and on standard airfare, while my friends deal with booking a van to transport the bike in an even larger bike box, the fear of 'oversize' charges, and dismantling.
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Old 08-06-17, 05:06 PM   #102
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What a difference wheels and tires can make. I recently added a set of Rolf wheels and mounted Durano 20 x 1.10 tires and I mounted them Tubeless for less rolling resistance.

I rode the same route that I did last fall when I started this thread. I was in better shape then. However today I was 1:50 faster at 15:19 when my best time on my 700c bike was 17.10.

I now need a bigger gear on my Dahon. I was spun out probably 20% of the time, not just downhill like i was with the fatter tires and original wheels.

Last edited by Rick Imby; 08-07-17 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 08-06-17, 05:13 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
I have good bikes for both 700c and 406, and I do ride a fair bit (in fact, 380-400km/week for the past 3 weeks on these mix of bikes since I signed up for some silly 2017km challenge )
Raleigh MV8 (good wheels; Sora 60T/11-30T; Road bar setup)
Moulton TSR (good wheels; XT 55/11-36T; Road bar setup)
Tyrell IVE (good wheels, Saint 55/11-36T; flatbar setup - but when I lean down all the way for speed, its probably the lowest position of all my bikes)
The Tribike always carries x2 750ml bidons compared to only x1 for the Raleigh and Moulton, so its 750gm more if that matters.


My small bikes all give guys on more expensive mini velos a run for their money.
"Ideally" though, I would love a BF Pocket Rocket PRO with Dura Ace, 6-7kg.... maybe I'll get to that someday.


There is at least 3kph ave speed difference between the RB and the 3 small bikes.


To get the 'same' is not possible.
Too many differences to nit-pick on.
Frame is diff, wheel size diff, Aero characteristics, rider position, groupset diff
Eg. Is a Tyrell AM7 hub the equivalent to a Campagnolo Zonda? (there's just no measurement to such things)

So IMO, we will never get to 'same'.
I'm satisfied that with the same rider (ie. me), the speed is different.
However, at the end of a 200km brevet, after the beer and dinner, I just fold my Tyrell IVE and take a train home, while my friends discuss over sharing taxi or riding back.

Same thing with travel.
I just fold my bike and load up a coach (while friends on road bikes have to find out in advance if their bikes can be accepted; take off various parts to load up)
On flights, my foldie just goes into a box and on standard airfare, while my friends deal with booking a van to transport the bike in an even larger bike box, the fear of 'oversize' charges, and dismantling.
Your experience sounds interesting. Let me get this straight---some abbreviations I'm not sure about.

So you are saying your Road bike---700c carbon is about 2mph or 3kph faster?
Your Tribike has the forward extended hand position? Or is it standard Road bike bars?

Would one of your 406 bikes be significantly faster than the others?
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Old 08-06-17, 08:26 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Rick Imby View Post
Your experience sounds interesting. Let me get this straight---some abbreviations I'm not sure about.

So you are saying your Road bike---700c carbon is about 2mph or 3kph faster?
Your Tribike has the forward extended hand position? Or is it standard Road bike bars?

Would one of your 406 bikes be significantly faster than the others?

Tri-bike is titanium and old, certainly over 10kg and not the <7kg bikes out there nowadays.
Its got aero-bars as its a Tri-bike, but either way on the aero bars or on the handlebars, its certainly faster.

Just looked at my Strava rides over this week, with the one on the Tri bike being the ones later in the week (so presumably more fatigued).
On the regular straight stretch that I ride on, I cruise (ie. easy breathing) at ave 35-37kph on the tri bike and 30-32kph on the mini velos (ie. Raleigh MV8 and Moulton TSR).


I would say that the Raleigh is a bit faster of my bikes.
Lighter (no fold), really stiff and basically a road bike geometry sized down.
I can imagine it being able to match any high end mini velo if I changed out the fork to a carbon one and got better 451 wheels like the Tyrell AM9. (but its my commute and I like to leave it cheaper in case of theft)
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Old 08-07-17, 09:55 AM   #105
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Thanks for the info Pin Hole...
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Old 09-01-17, 07:04 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post

My small bikes all give guys on more expensive mini velos a run for their money.
"Ideally" though, I would love a BF Pocket Rocket PRO with Dura Ace, 6-7kg.... maybe I'll get to that someday.


Funny, I end up quoting myself


Bike_Friday_PRSP_1 by jenkwang, on Flickr

I'll probably write on how it rides/handles once I've put in some distance on it.
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Old 09-01-17, 05:41 PM   #107
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Ooohhh looking forward to it!
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Old 09-03-17, 09:36 AM   #108
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My road bike and my folder are both custom made, to almost the same specifications.
I don't know if I'm slower on my folder because of wheel size, gearing, less stability or what . . . but I've always chalked it up to weight, because my folder is about five pounds heavier.
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Old 09-03-17, 08:34 PM   #109
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I've been off my road bike for nearly 2 years, riding my folder almost exclusively. As I have said in the past, these bikes weigh the same, and are set up to have the same cockpit size. The road bike is Campy Record 9 speed equipped, the folder, a Birdy with 20" wheels (Ultegra 6800 hubs), is Dura-Ace/XTR 11 speeds.

On Saturday I cleaned up my road bike, trued the wheels, made a few adjustments, and took it for a ride over the same closed course I have used for the last 4 weeks on my folder. My road bike was 10% faster per lap.
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Old 09-03-17, 09:22 PM   #110
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I've been off my road bike for nearly 2 years, riding my folder almost exclusively. As I have said in the past, these bikes weigh the same, and are set up to have the same cockpit size. The road bike is Campy Record 9 speed equipped, the folder, a Birdy with 20" wheels (Ultegra 6800 hubs), is Dura-Ace/XTR 11 speeds.

On Saturday I cleaned up my road bike, trued the wheels, made a few adjustments, and took it for a ride over the same closed course I have used for the last 4 weeks on my folder. My road bike was 10% faster per lap.
If you have the ability, it may be instructive to lock the Birdy's suspension to see if that makes a difference. But besides that, I know the Birdy frame is very flexy indeed, that would soak up a fair bit of power too, and that is in the lateral plane which is exactly where you want maximum stiffness.
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Old 09-03-17, 09:37 PM   #111
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I don't claim to be a fast or strong rider but I seem consistently ~1 mph slower on a Brompton M6R w/Marathons and half clips vs my Specialized Tricross Comp w/700x32 and clipless which is ~7%. I just finished rigging a lower more aero position for my Brompton's M bars that should reduce the gap significantly (an initial run proved promising).

I've used a Garmin 60csx on fixed loops through mildly hilly terrain several times to compare.
I'm now down to half my previous difference, or ~0.5mph/3.5% at the same air pressures due to the new drop aero position on Brompton. It's actually a bit more aerodynamic then the drop bars on my gravel bike (hands are together) and it's made big comfort difference by providing another back angle/hand grip position. Very happy with that.
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