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Old 01-26-17, 08:52 PM   #1
wilfried
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Tern P20 Replacement: Same Bike? Birdy? Something else?

I had a Tern Verge P20, which I quite liked, but alas, was stolen. I got some insurance money though, and now I'm in the market for a new bike. The Tern hit a lot of the right points, so I might just get another one, but since I have the opportunity, I thought I'd check out other bikes.

My first question, what other bikes should I consider?

Given that I live in a closet in a walk up, I'm stuck with folding bikes. I have a Brompton, which hits the marks for a compact city commuter. The Tern was the fun ride bike and light tourer. It's faster than a Brompton, and I took on 80+ mile rides and for weekends away (though I've also ridden my Brompton 70+ miles). It has a wide gear range, very low on the bottom, and pretty fast at the top, and it could handle just about any hill, so I could take it places I couldn't take the Brompton. However, I also fitted it with rack and fenders, which also made it a utility bike, good for commuting, carrying stuff, and light touring (though of course heavier and slower). My one complaint is that the handlebars are too high, which isn't bad in itself, but is too much like the M bar Brompton, and I would hope for something a little lower and sportier. It was versatile, a decent ride, and different enough from a Brompton. So, what else is out there that I should to consider?

I checked out a few other bikes, and none particularly struck my fancy, until I test rode a Birdy today, a 24 speed dual drive. Wow, that bike has a great ride. The gear range is crazy wide, the suspension smoothed out the pockmarked streets, and the disk brakes were great. I liked the internal gear hub "front derailleur," so I can downshift after I stop, and not get stuck in too high a gear at a stoplight. It has an adjustable stem, so I can get the lower handlebar that I want. I would have to ride it more to judge, but on first impression, that bike is a marvel. It also costs $2200. With rack and fenders and tax, I think it will cost like $1000 more than a Tern P20 with the same equipment. I also wonder if it's as versatile, and if all those fancy bits make it fiddly. It has 18 inch wheels, so would it be hard to find tires and tubes? The fold also isn't the tidiest. So, what are thoughts on the Birdy? Is it worth the eye watering price? If I really, really want to, I can swing the price, but it really has to be worth it. It was bad enough to lose a $1300 Tern, losing a $2200 Birdy would be that much worse.

tl;dr: What bike might be a good replacement for a stolen Tern Verge P20? What do you think of the Birdy, considering it's eye watering price?

BTW, I know about the Tern recalls, and will take that into consideration. Please comment on bikes, not Tern and its travails. I have all those other threads to look regarding Tern.

Last edited by wilfried; 01-26-17 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 01-26-17, 09:22 PM   #2
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I was curious on how you got your bike stolen? What about looking at a 16" wheeled Dahon?
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Old 01-26-17, 10:52 PM   #3
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I left it in the hall, forgot to bring it in, and the next morning it was gone. I live on the fifth floor, and security generally isn't a big issue, but we've been having problems lately.

I have a 16" Brompton, so I'd like to go with something bigger. I don't think I can go big than 20", due to tiny apartment. Light is good only because I have to schlep the thing up the stairs.

Last edited by wilfried; 01-26-17 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 01-27-17, 03:21 AM   #4
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Before buying a Birdy, I'd give a Pacific Cycles Reach a try. Probably a bit less money than a Birdy too. That's what I'd splurge on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wilfried View Post
I had a Tern Verge P20, which I quite liked, but alas, was stolen. I got some insurance money though, and now I'm in the market for a new bike. The Tern hit a lot of the right points, so I might just get another one, but since I have the opportunity, I thought I'd check out other bikes.

My first question, what other bikes should I consider?

Given that I live in a closet in a walk up, I'm stuck with folding bikes. I have a Brompton, which hits the marks for a compact city commuter. The Tern was the fun ride bike and light tourer. It's faster than a Brompton, and I took on 80+ mile rides and for weekends away (though I've also ridden my Brompton 70+ miles). It has a wide gear range, very low on the bottom, and pretty fast at the top, and it could handle just about any hill, so I could take it places I couldn't take the Brompton. However, I also fitted it with rack and fenders, which also made it a utility bike, good for commuting, carrying stuff, and light touring (though of course heavier and slower). My one complaint is that the handlebars are too high, which isn't bad in itself, but is too much like the M bar Brompton, and I would hope for something a little lower and sportier. It was versatile, a decent ride, and different enough from a Brompton. So, what else is out there that I should to consider?

I checked out a few other bikes, and none particularly struck my fancy, until I test rode a Birdy today, a 24 speed dual drive. Wow, that bike has a great ride. The gear range is crazy wide, the suspension smoothed out the pockmarked streets, and the disk brakes were great. I liked the internal gear hub "front derailleur," so I can downshift after I stop, and not get stuck in too high a gear at a stoplight. It has an adjustable stem, so I can get the lower handlebar that I want. I would have to ride it more to judge, but on first impression, that bike is a marvel. It also costs $2200. With rack and fenders and tax, I think it will cost like $1000 more than a Tern P20 with the same equipment. I also wonder if it's as versatile, and if all those fancy bits make it fiddly. It has 18 inch wheels, so would it be hard to find tires and tubes? The fold also isn't the tidiest. So, what are thoughts on the Birdy? Is it worth the eye watering price? If I really, really want to, I can swing the price, but it really has to be worth it. It was bad enough to lose a $1300 Tern, losing a $2200 Birdy would be that much worse.

tl;dr: What bike might be a good replacement for a stolen Tern Verge P20? What do you think of the Birdy, considering it's eye watering price?

BTW, I know about the Tern recalls, and will take that into consideration. Please comment on bikes, not Tern and its travails. I have all those other threads to look regarding Tern.
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Old 01-27-17, 08:32 AM   #5
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well.....
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Old 01-27-17, 09:09 AM   #6
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It looks like Tboomer's pocket rocket is still for sale, above. PRs are designed for your kind speedy folder needs.
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Old 01-27-17, 09:37 AM   #7
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If the OP lives five floors up with no lift, and if he also has domestic storage limitations then a keen fold and folded size would seem to be significant issues; maybe this gives the Birdy a few plus points over say the BF's that have been mentioned.
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Old 01-27-17, 12:17 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input. I looked at Bike Fridays in the store, and other than the Tikit, I don't think they'll work for my situation (the joys of living in a teeny tiny big city apartment).

Abu Mahendra, could you tell me more about the Pacific Reach, and why you recommend it? According to the website, it costs $2100 or $2400, so pretty close to the Birdy.
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Old 01-27-17, 02:09 PM   #9
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I like the Birdy much more than the Reach.

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Old 01-27-17, 02:54 PM   #10
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Birdy for sure over the Reach as a commuter type bike .. 8 tire sizes in 355 from Schwalbe alone .. Reach 451 tires very limited .. also the Birdy folds without removing the front wheel.. since you have to go upstairs frequently, you might look at a Birdy with Capreo hub instead of the dual drive to cut down on weight and complexity and still give you good gear range .. I love the Dual Drive, but I also never had to lug one upstairs .. if you don't need the lowest lows and the highest highs, a Mega-range cassette or Capreo would work..
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Old 01-27-17, 06:16 PM   #11
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Your needs/constraints are different. You need to fold and schlep the thing up five floors. You are open to wheel size smaller than 406. I don't, on both accounts. Perhaps the Birdy (or a Tyrell IVE) is better for you.

If I lived in cramped NYC (and I did. I grew up there), I, personally, myself, would bite the bullet and schlep the Reach up cyclo-cross style by putting the top tube on my shoulder. Unless you are living in an unregulated tenament, NYC Fire Codes require staircases of width sufficient to carry and turn a bike with 451 wheels with no problems. What I would not do is fold/unfold the thing every time I go in and out (you've got the Brompton for that). But that's me. You kept two bikes so apparently you are mot living in the tiniest of spaces. Good luck.

In my region a Reach is a couple hundred dollars cheaper than a Birdy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilfried View Post
Thanks for the input. I looked at Bike Fridays in the store, and other than the Tikit, I don't think they'll work for my situation (the joys of living in a teeny tiny big city apartment).

Abu Mahendra, could you tell me more about the Pacific Reach, and why you recommend it? According to the website, it costs $2100 or $2400, so pretty close to the Birdy.

Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 01-27-17 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 01-27-17, 11:51 PM   #12
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Dahon has some bikes quite close to the Tern P20.

I like your idea of having two bikes with your tiny folder (brompton) and a more cruiser/lighter faster bike. I would go with a bike like the P20. I really like derailleured bikes over internal hubs because of the range possibilities and weight and the internal resistance of an internal hub. (many disagree but that is good).

I think Bruce Metris still has a super light Dahon 20th anniversary (in the for sale section above)---under 18 pounds and still like new---$1000.

There have been some great deals on Ebay lately. Look at the chainring and the rims to see how much wear there has been. Sometimes they have practically no miles on them.

There are a ton of options out there. I'm like Bruce in that I would personally stick with 406 20" rims if at all possible.
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