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Old 03-26-17, 02:17 PM   #51
ThorUSA
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interesting statements indeed. I will wait to really make up my mind if i have the first bikes in my warehouse, after a nice day riding one , let a couple folks ( regular folks, not necessary armchair engineers ) ride the bike, than i will make up my mind, in the meantime I keep an open one.
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Old 03-26-17, 04:18 PM   #52
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So perhaps response, Dahon said, "Well, if that's the way you want to play," and finally put its own interpretation of the classic Ritchie design - the only design Brompton builds - on the market.
Relative to the whole Asian folder market Dahon is still a fraction and may be bought for an upped quality and prestige. The Brompton price can be only afforded by the very rich and the Dahon prestige does not measure up there to Brompton. In Europe the price is going to be more affordable relative to the income or prices expected to be paid for bikes, but it can be hard to convince people to buy a Brompton imitation for the price of a Brompton, due to quality expectations. To succeed in competing Curl needs to be somehow a revelation and that in part requires supplementing it with all such infrastructure as Brompton, luggage options, carrying cases etc. Else Dahon needs to lower the price significantly. This sort of dilemma is faced by soda producers who want to compete with Coke.
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Old 03-26-17, 05:13 PM   #53
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Relative to the whole Asian folder market Dahon is still a fraction and may be bought for an upped quality and prestige. The Brompton price can be only afforded by the very rich and the Dahon prestige does not measure up there to Brompton.
Possibly, but I don't have a way to measure prestige. I can put a number on price, and Dahon has a number of models that sell in quantity for as much or more than a Brompton.

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In Europe the price is going to be more affordable relative to the income or prices expected to be paid for bikes, but it can be hard to convince people to buy a Brompton imitation for the price of a Brompton, due to quality expectations.
The Brompton is brazed together out of HiTen steel. The rear dropout is stamped sheetmetal, the front dropout - well, there's not one, not as an individual part - they just squish the fork tube flat. I don't know about the market you're in, but here in Parts Unknown that's the way only the very cheapest bikes were made...40~50 years ago. Dahon's very cheapest bike, the Broadway, is welded chromoly with forged dropouts. Certainly the level of components (mostly imported from Asia) attached to the Brompton frame are nothing to write home about, particularly at the Brompton's price point. I wonder if you might expound on the 'quality expectations' of Brompton buyers you're referring to?
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Old 03-26-17, 07:58 PM   #54
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Its ugly.
Heh, and they wonder why it won't sell.

That's my only gripe with Brompton, its like putting lipstick on a pig.

Its an odd looking contraption even at the best of times.
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Old 03-26-17, 08:05 PM   #55
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Possibly, but I don't have a way to measure prestige. I can put a number on price, and Dahon has a number of models that sell in quantity for as much or more than a Brompton.
A number of times someone came up to show me proudly their Brompton and this has yet to happen with any Dahon.

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The Brompton is brazed together out of HiTen steel. The rear dropout is stamped sheetmetal, the front dropout - well, there's not one, not as an individual part - they just squish the fork tube flat. I don't know about the market you're in, but here in Parts Unknown that's the way only the very cheapest bikes were made...40~50 years ago. Dahon's very cheapest bike, the Broadway, is welded chromoly with forged dropouts. Certainly the level of components (mostly imported from Asia) attached to the Brompton frame are nothing to write home about, particularly at the Brompton's price point. I wonder if you might expound on the 'quality expectations' of Brompton buyers you're referring to?
Around my base there are no shops offering folding bikes, but work throws me around places where folding bike vendors are in abundance, including US, Europe, Japan and China. As my footnote states, under my care are Bromptons, Boardwalk level Dahons for Asia and BF. When I travel I try bikes at shops and I ride some local bikes on a daily basis during stay, including folders. The 2 Dahons I actually brought from trips. Yes, Brompton employs cheap solutions that I believe are there to keep the price down. However, it is still an impeccable bike. When tweaking the bike I find hard time to improve upon the original set. In other bikes such as Treks, I eventually started changing everything. The Dahons are OK but their details are such that they make me hesitate in investing any significant money into the products by the company. There had been holes drilled incorrectly, low quality nuts and bolts, a chainring out of soft steel. There had been an issue of one bike shedding spokes like a dog shedding hair.

Other people's experience may differ, but the fact is that Dahon put their name onto my bikes. When I looked at progression of models, I saw just gradual improvements and the fact is that I wanted bikes with steel frames, hence the particular models. Besides frame durability, I want at times modifications in the frames.

P.S. Times Out Beijing had one of my Dahon models as Best Buy.

Last edited by 2_i; 03-26-17 at 08:19 PM. Reason: P.S.
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Old 03-26-17, 08:19 PM   #56
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Possibly, but I don't have a way to measure prestige. I can put a number on price, and Dahon has a number of models that sell in quantity for as much or more than a Brompton.



The Brompton is brazed together out of HiTen steel. The rear dropout is stamped sheetmetal, the front dropout - well, there's not one, not as an individual part - they just squish the fork tube flat.
My Dahon has the exact same construction, however it is far more affordable than any Brompton, even secondhand.

I'm actually quite smitten with my 15KG pig, it rides like a 80's Cadillac, yet handles and stops like a VW gti.

The brompton fold, however is the main selling point for those who choose that brand.
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Old 03-26-17, 09:11 PM   #57
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... Dahon's very cheapest bike, the Broadway, is welded chromoly with forged dropouts. ...
I believe that the lowest-priced Dahon distributed in the USA is the Boardwalk S1. While the frames on earlier Boardwalks were 4130 chromoly, for the last several years, the ones distributed in the USA have had high-tensile steel frames.


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Old 03-26-17, 11:08 PM   #58
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I believe that the lowest-priced Dahon distributed in the USA is the Boardwalk S1. While the frames on earlier Boardwalks were 4130 chromoly, for the last several years, the ones distributed in the USA have had high-tensile steel frames.


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May I ask if 4130 ChroMo steel better than high-tensile steel? Which is more expensive to produce?
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Old 03-26-17, 11:50 PM   #59
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4130 is better in the sense that it is stronger, therefore less of it can be used, making the bike lighter. 4130 is more expensive.

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May I ask if 4130 ChroMo steel better than high-tensile steel? Which is more expensive to produce?
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Old 03-27-17, 04:19 AM   #60
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Thanks Abu!
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Old 03-27-17, 11:28 PM   #61
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Wow, it's almost the same size as the Brompton

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Old 03-28-17, 03:21 AM   #62
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Why is the seat removed in the video? Also several pics are showing the seat removed from the post.
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Old 03-28-17, 04:38 AM   #63
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Why is the seat removed in the video? Also several pics are showing the seat removed from the post.
To achieve this tiny fold, saddle has to be removed. I hope they have a place to hold it.

They used to have a foldable seat in previous version, but not on this one. Cost down?

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Old 03-28-17, 04:44 AM   #64
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I also read 4130 is a bit more corrosion resistant.

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Thanks Abu!
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Old 03-28-17, 12:14 PM   #65
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Why is the seat removed in the video? Also several pics are showing the seat removed from the post.
They sort of stick it between the fold. Naturally, they do it to improve the virtual box folded size measure.

Probably makes little practical difference but bad optics.
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Old 03-28-17, 12:42 PM   #66
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They used to have a foldable seat in previous version, but not on this one. Cost down?
Cost. Weight. More fragile.

All three I assume.
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Old 03-30-17, 02:25 PM   #67
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The 50K goal has been passed on Kickstarter so I would guess this bike will be coming for sure or it will be a marketing disaster.
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Old 03-30-17, 03:18 PM   #68
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They sort of stick it between the fold. Naturally, they do it to improve the virtual box folded size measure. ...
Of course, since the Brompton in the video has a telescoping seat post, a more "fair" comparison would have the Brompton saddle removed also.

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Old 03-30-17, 04:59 PM   #69
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Of course, since the Brompton in the video has a telescoping seat post, a more "fair" comparison would have the Brompton saddle removed also.

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Yep.
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Old 03-31-17, 02:00 AM   #70
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It seems that bike has no carrier block mount on head tube..

did they lose their patent?
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Old 03-31-17, 03:46 AM   #71
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It seems that bike has no carrier block mount on head tube..

did they lose their patent?
Dahon also has their own luggage lug, I will think the cabling not proper for front carrier bag, this is a major miss for me.
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Old 03-31-17, 06:09 AM   #72
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Compare side by side. I wonder why Dahon made their bike so "humpy". Is this just a styling exercise ... or some other reason. I see why the brake cables would not make front luggage possible now.
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Old 03-31-17, 12:47 PM   #73
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actually I am getting a sample bike mid april .... will be able to testride and look it over before it gets back to Dahon for other dealer visits.
les me to believe that their kickstarter timeline is accurate.
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Old 03-31-17, 02:37 PM   #74
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les me to believe that their kickstarter timeline is accurate.
Oh ... considering the quality of all Kickstarters, one should have lots of faith in one started by Dahon.
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Old 03-31-17, 04:40 PM   #75
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Oh ... considering the quality of all Kickstarters, one should have lots of faith in one started by Dahon.
The difference is Dahon isn't the run-of-the-mill campaigner,...
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