Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-06-17, 05:45 PM   #1
HighValleyRanch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Suggestions on IGH conversion on Allen Sport

Hi all, looking for some suggestions on my conversion of my Allen Sport from one speed to multi speed.
I liked this bike so much that I wanted to add some more gear range to it.
Because of the aluminum frame, and the 110 track type dropout, I was limited in my choices to add more gearing.
I found out that the original Sturmey Archer AW hubs were 110 O.L.D. so I searched high and low for a 20" wheel built with an old AW SA 3 speed hub. Would have preferred one with a coaster brake, but no go as they are bigger OLD than the 110mm.

I finally found one in UK and it arrived today, and it fits perfectly into the dropouts. That was the first goal. Also, it is new old stock, but a steel chrome Rigida
rim that is pretty wide. The original rims were 25mm wide, but the new one is 34mm wide. But fortunately, the 1.5 Kenda Kwest tire fit perfectly on it, and there was plenty of room,

The hub came pretty bare, so I had to improvise to get it together. Didn't want to do any ordering until I could confirm that it would fit and work. The cog spacing on the AW hub is bigger than the newer ones, so this requires a spacer. I did not have one, but took the offset 24 tooth off my other 3 speed, and lo and behold, I found that I could fit two opposing offset cogs on this hub and get two gears and the internal 3 (6 speeds! yeah)

I've done this once before many years ago, running a double cog on the SA hub, with a rear derailler and a double chainwheel on the front with front derailler for an ultimate commute bike that could be shifted at the stop light!

Here's a photo of the setup to where I have the wheel fitted into place, and rideable.

Last edited by HighValleyRanch; 07-12-17 at 05:30 PM.
HighValleyRanch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-17, 05:56 PM   #2
HighValleyRanch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Here is a view of the bike from the side.

What I am looking for in suggestions is.....
1. A way to mount a derailler onto the frame so that I can switch between the 2 cogs. I do not want the type of derailler mount that goes around the axle. Since this is a track type with the wheel sliding out to the rear, I am not sure that this is possible.

2. Option 2 would be simple with a chain tensioner and I could manually change the chain from small to large cog.
Ideally a 16 to 24 tooth change or there about for wider range. I live in VERY STEEP hilly country. My road has a 15 percent grade! And I would be happy with a 70 inch gear for the flats.

3. The clearance from the small outer cog to the seat stay is very close, so an upper mounted chain tensioner is out of the question. Some sort of lower chain stay mount might work.

4. Looking for suggestions on the gear cable setup as I am running drop bars so grip shifter is out of the question, and not sure if the old sturmey archer trigger shifters work on the larger road bar. Not many other places to mount a shifter. Maybe fabricate a tube bracket somewhere? I'm open to suggestions. On my CCM, I ran a super simple setup with a pulley on the seat tube and a quantrant shifter on the top tube for pure simplicity and it works great.


Last edited by HighValleyRanch; 07-06-17 at 06:27 PM.
HighValleyRanch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-17, 09:03 PM   #3
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts unknown
Bikes:
Posts: 4,922
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
4. Looking for suggestions on the gear cable setup as I am running drop bars...
Sturmey SLS30 3-spd bar end.
tcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-17, 09:10 PM   #4
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts unknown
Bikes:
Posts: 4,922
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
2. Option 2 would be simple with a chain tensioner and I could manually change the chain from small to large cog.
Ideally a 16 to 24 tooth change or there about for wider range.
I don't know if a Kore Chain Reactor below chain stay tensioner has enough range for 16~24 or not.
tcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-17, 01:14 PM   #5
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts unknown
Bikes:
Posts: 4,922
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
Because of the aluminum frame, and the 110 track type dropout, I was limited in my choices to add more gearing.
I found out that the original Sturmey Archer AW hubs were 110 O.L.D...
BTW, today's modern, alloy shell S-A SRF3 with the -NIG internal mechanism is still spec'd in a version @ 108mm OLD with the 148mm axle - I'm seeing plenty of them on eBay. In addition, with Sturmey's excellent spare parts availability it's easy enough to convert any AW-family (1936-present) hub to 110mm OLD with changes to the spacers and/or locknuts and possibly the axle+indicator rod.

If one doesn't want to or doesn't feel up to tackling the job themselves, any good bike shop would be able to build one of these hubs into a modern, quality 20" (ISO406mm) aluminum rim.
tcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-17, 01:36 PM   #6
HighValleyRanch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Yeah, I will tackle building a wheel with alloy rim in the future now that I see it can all work.
Thanks for the link to the bacon type shifter, and the Kore Chain Reactor tensioner, although they state that it is not intended for use without a rear derailleur. Something might be able to be worked with something like this.

Today I put on a longer chain, and got it centered on the 24 tooth cog, so I will see how much slack is present when I switch it over to the 18 tooth cog and see how much takeup I need.
Might be able to improvise a bracket affixed to the kickstand bracket for the chain tensioner.
HighValleyRanch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-17, 02:12 PM   #7
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts unknown
Bikes:
Posts: 4,922
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
...the Kore Chain Reactor tensioner, although they state that it is not intended for use without a rear derailleur.
Are we talking about the same thing?

NOS-KORE-Chain-Reactor-Tensioner-MTB-Single-Speed-_1.jpg

Screen Shot 2017-07-07 at 3.08.37 PM.jpg

Screen Shot 2017-07-07 at 3.08.18 PM.jpg
tcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-17, 03:28 PM   #8
HighValleyRanch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Yes, the very same. I did a bunch of research on it last night after you posted your suggestion.
Here is from their installation PDF:
Updated September 27, 2006
KORE Chain Reactor Installation Instructions
WARNING: THIS PRODUCT IS DESIGNED FOR USE AS A SECONDARY CHAIN TENSION DEVICE (IN ADDITION TO A REAR DERAILLEUR). IT IS NOT SUITABLE AS A PRIMARY CHAIN TENSION DEVICE FOR SINGLE SPEED BIKES.

On various forums, people did install it as the main tensioner with varying results. Most complained about the chain stay clamp moving, too flimsy, or improvised their own stronger clamp.
HighValleyRanch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-17, 07:50 AM   #9
HighValleyRanch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
I managed to find an old derailleur with a integrated hanger in my stash of old parts, so got the Allen sport setup with a derailleur temporarily to see how it will work with the double cog on the Sturmey Archer setup.
Have to decide on what type of shifters I want. Maybe both barcon shifter for rear derailleur and IGH?

Found an inexpensive derailleur with a rear facing dropout claw (Shimano Tourney TY300 designed for BMX and track type dropouts) on Ebxx and ordered that so it will not as much a pain for tire repairs.
I searched an hour for a hanger that will work with rear facing horizontal dropouts, but found nothing except the problem solver ones that go on the Axle. What I want is one that I can affix into place that has the slot going backwards, and the correct hanger with stop. Suggestions welcomed.

Found this video on showing how to remove and replace your rear wheel with rear facing horizontal dropouts and a derailleur.

HighValleyRanch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-17, 07:16 AM   #10
HighValleyRanch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
I had a Shimano Exage400 LX triple crank from another bike that I put on yesterday. It fit perfectly and the chainlink was good so now I have an 18 speed folding bike out of my Single speed!
(2 cogs on the rear, 3 internal and triple crank on the front)

I will do some calculations to figure the best combinations of two rear cogs, internal ratios and triple front chain rings.
Found a 34.9 braze on adapter that will fit the main seat tube for the front derailleur, but might just use the greasy finger method for now. I rode the bike with the chain on all three chainwheels and it was nice and quiet, so now just need to figure out the shifting hookups and I am all set! Will post updates as I progress.

On calculating the inch gear, do I use 20" or 19" for exact gear ratio? I measured the tire diameter and it is 19 inches diameter, kenda 1.5 on 406 rim.
HighValleyRanch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-17, 04:56 PM   #11
mtb_addict
Senior Member
 
mtb_addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 1,156
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 637 Post(s)
It's going to be very confusing using 3 shift levers.
mtb_addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-17, 05:10 PM   #12
Rick Imby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Bikes:
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
I would question how well the shifters will work with the rear cogs. Dropping between sprockets or off the back might be a problem. Cheap one speed chains are not designed to be shifted.

You have certainly gone to a lot of work on this project. I will stick with my fairly stock Dahon Mu D10 and my Zootr Swift 8 speed with 11-32 rear cogs on both.

I do understand for some people the fiddling with it it is half the fun.

Enjoy
Rick Imby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-17, 05:26 PM   #13
HighValleyRanch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Will have to wait for a bunch of parts to arrive before I can assemble it all to working order.
Had to order a Mk I indicator chain, the two derailleurs and a 3 speed cable.

I weighed the bike again last night. With the rear Dahon rack, the 3 speed AW hub and Rigida chrome rim, and rear deraiileur and longer chain, the bike is at 28.5 pounds. Not too bad for all that added extras.
HighValleyRanch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-17, 11:21 AM   #14
mtb_addict
Senior Member
 
mtb_addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 1,156
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 637 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
Rigida chrome rim
Those are nice rims. Engraving on the sides. Look super strong.
mtb_addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-17, 11:35 AM   #15
HighValleyRanch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
A lot of those old chrome rims has patterns on the side for more braking bite. Makes a whirling sound when you brake!LOL
Not the best for rainy weather however.
HighValleyRanch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-17, 11:43 AM   #16
Rick Imby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Bikes:
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
A lot of those old chrome rims has patterns on the side for more braking bite. Makes a whirling sound when you brake!LOL
Not the best for rainy weather however.

Yes even with the engraving you will not get near the stopping power you get with aluminum rims.
Rick Imby is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:49 PM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    get answers from real people!
Click to start entering your question.
I HAVE A QUESTION