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Thor,

I sympathize with you, no one needs headaches. I left the forum a few years back, I felt as though several customers were using this forum to blackmail me. I regret my decision to leave. I am happy to be back and I don't want to leave again.

Now I remember you were brakemeister.

Om,
Yan

bhkyte

Unfortunately this seems to be a modern internet trend. There was a documentary on uk tv a while back that highlighted to me how much leaving back reviews and holding a business or service to ransom went on. I am not in bussness but I am weary of internet reviews.

Great bikes..... send me a cespro mini for free else................

dynaryder

FYI,they also ding you 10% for your shipping. I complained and was told it was because too many listers were trying to skip out on final value fees by inflating their shipping charges. I could see this for a business,but for regular joes it's BS. I'm not Amazon,I don't get volume discounts from the shippers.

So if you sell a bike for $1k,and charge $100 shipping,eBay is going to tag you for $110.

downtube

Amazon will warehouse and ship products with free shipping for a 15% commission. ebay charges over 10% with paypal fees, and I do not see the value. That's why I left ebay about 5 years ago.

I'm actually curious what is going on over there. I can't imagine it is the same as before.

Om,
Yan

mirfi

Yea! My wife and I were visiting Annapolis (Naval Academy) this past weekend. Beautiful Saturday, streets crowded, when I happened upon a couple with well worn NOVA's. I was clearly excited, we chatted a while. Pretty cool.

overbyte

Yan,

Are you ever going to bring back your mini? Why did you stop selling it (low demand, problems, etc.)?

Thanks for participating again in this forum.

downtube

After the market crashed in 2008 sales dropped dramatically. The mini was always our worst seller ( it was the most expensive ). I discontinued the NS ( no suspension ) and mini first. I have mini's arriving on the next container. It is supposed to arrive in May but the factory sometimes gets backed up. I will post a preorder special once the container ships.

Thanks,
Yan

BikeKraft

Yan,
What else can we expect with the new shipment?
Will this thread make a whole decade?

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I have no idea how long this thread will last....hopefully more than a decade. I have new mini's and belt drive 8H bikes coming.

Additionally I have 5 & 7 yr old kids that started mountain biking. Unfortunately there are not any good kids mountain bikes on the market. I spent weeks shopping and found 3 main options

1) Schwinn has a $300 bike with no suspension fork, and low end components
2) Trek has an $400 model with suspension fork and low end components ( non adjustable stem )
3) Performance has a really junky $250 model. I think everything on it is bad.

I am bringing in samples for my kids to test. I may expand into kids bikes. The kids models will have 9sp M93 drive train ( Deore quality ), same fork as our 9FS with transarch design, 20" double wall machined side wall rims with disc hubs ( 100% disc ready ), integrated headset, front dérailleur braze-on ( no front dérailleur ), adjustable angle stem ( which can be flipped to face the rider for small kids ). I expect retail to be $350-$380. FYI I am going to China to get a good bike for my kids, I think that is sad!

Om,
Yan

overbyte

China has become "China, Inc." in effect, positioning its economy as the factory of the world for most product types. Unfortunately, there's a lot of "buyer beware" involved in dealing with China and little recourse when the product is bad.

Just curious, Yan-- We get notices in the US but they come from the US importer or retailer when a defect comes to their attention in the US-sold products. Canada requires that defects in a product be reported to the government even if they occur in other countries where the product was sold. Have you ever heard of a recall notice coming out of a Chinese manufacturer for a widespread product defect in design or manufacturing process?

downtube

I have purchased from two bicycle factories, and several bag, sunglasses, and clothes factories. I have had no issues with clothes or sunglasses. I had some issues with bags...so I moved to a different factory in Thailand.

The Downtube VI bikes were produced by Oyama ( a very dishonest company ). I has no failures from the factory, however they stole many of my ideas ( which was not allowed according to our contract ). I moved to a much better factory 10 years ago. The frames have been rock solid however there were some assembly issues 10 yrs ago ( some examples: BB was too tight, brake adjustment out, rear reflector breaking in shipping )....all those issues are long gone. I think my factory assembly is top notch. Many customers tell me they just take the bike out of the box and ride. The percentage is increasing every year.

Overall I can not answer your question. However, I doubt you will ever see a recall direct from China. It has turned into a very dishonest country...everyone is running a scam. If something goes wrong I doubt anyone will take responsibility.

Om,
Yan

BikeKraft

Thanks for the update Yan.
I hope the 8H comes in red.
I found a little can of red paint at the hardware store
that was a good match to hide those scrapes and dings.

overbyte

It's interesting to me that post-WWII Japan rebuilt its economy on the foundation of quality, continual quality improvement, as taught to them by Edwards Deming:


China on the other hand seems to have grown its economy in the last few decades by utilizing its vast agrarian population as a natural resource to mine for cheap labor, by its strong central control of the currency exchange rate keeping the Yuan low relative to stronger currencies of more advanced economies, and by government subsidies direct and indirect. Quality was not in the equation.

downtube

Let me share some of my thoughts over the years. My first trip to Taipei, Hong Kong, and China was around 2004. I recall meeting a few Chinese vendors at the Taipei show ( politics would not allow many to come ). I remember meeting a wonderful, honest older Chinese engineer at the show, we just clicked. He was not a cyclist and was interested in anything I had to say ( I was a cyclist ) I told him all my thoughts on how to improve his bicycle with minimal cost, he was very excited and thankful. At that time, I could have made a deal with a simple handshake and no contracts. The Chinese understood they were part of a communist system that was changing and they were working for a common goal to make the country better & stronger.....I could feel the positive energy from everyone.

My last trip was a bit over 2 years ago....my how things change. The hard work has not panned out. On the train from Hong Kong just before the Schenzhen station ( first stop in China from Hong Kong ) all the men on the train dropped their pants and taped money and goods to their bodies before putting their pants back on ( the same rolls of tape were shared by all ). The train was completely full, we are talking about thousands of people. They were trying to avoid corrupt customs officers. The taxi driver ripped me off at the station. I then met with people running a fraudulent bike business ( unheard of 10 years ago ). The people do not trust the food supply, it is not safe. There is a huge demand for any food imported from the USA.

In short the people have worked hard, but they did not get what they expected. They see the country as a failure and it is not going to get better. The energy is very negative. Honestly I find it depressing....how could this happen?

Om,
Yan

overbyte

Yan,

Your observations over that period of time are extremely interesting. Many thoughts come to my mind. When the country raised the people's expectations, they set up a precarious situation. Looking back at the economic history of China as explained here: Economic history of China (1949?present) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, one can understand how difficult it has been for the Chinese government to steer the economic well being of its people from a poor, starving, largely agrarian economy toward the achievements of the other major countries and even some small ones like Japan and South Korea. I can understand why the Communist Party leadership is so repressive against any expression of dissenting opinions in the public and so controlling of what the public sees and knows, such as by establishing the Great Firewall of China between its national Internet and the global Internet. I think they tolerate and turn a blind eye toward corruption because it is seen as a small price to pay for allowing the country to continue its frenzied pace of economic growth, so it can provide jobs and hope for improvement of a person's station in life. If the public truly rises up in outrage, the whole thing could collapse into chaos.

Here's an interesting site which tracks perceptions of corruption and government enforcement of policies against corruption in various countries, including China: Transparency International - Country Profiles. Compare with Japan: Transparency International - Country Profiles. And with the US: Transparency International - Country Profiles. On public perception of corruption, scored from 0 (extremely corrupt) to 100 (extremely honest), here are the scores: China=40 , Japan=74 , USA=73. Also, Russia=28, South Korea=55, Nigeria=25, Urkraine=25, Cuba=46, Australia=81, North Korea=8. This leaves us with a lot to ponder about how the people of a country behave economically based upon their perception of the fairness and honesty of their government and economic leaders.

overbyte

Getting back to the subject of Downtube bikes, what is the current warranty on your bikes (particularly the Mini)? Do you have a link to a written warranty that I can read online?

What are the dimensions folded and unfolded for the Mini that is coming soon?

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You can look at our FAQ page. Everything we sell on our site has a 1 yr warranty. I copy & pasted the below:

Q Does it have a warranty?

A All bikes purchased on our website carry a 1 year limited warranty against defects on the frame and parts. Drivetrains are warrantied for 1 year by Sun Race or Shimano. Bikes purchased elsewhere may carry a longer or shorter warranty. Please check with the seller to determine your warranty. Warranty's are for the original owner & not transferable.

Om,
Yan

downtube

overbyte,

I would not put too much value in the transparency survey. FYI I lived in the Bahamas for 4 years until this past August. The results of the transparency/corruption index were posted in the paper....everyone laughed. The country is beyond salvation and the locals knew it. They were so happy that they fooled some pollsters, and were expecting foreign direct investment to increase.


I believe China's transparency numbers are equally flawed. Earlier the poor could fish and bike everywhere. Now bicycling is not as easy ( due to air pollution and traffic ), fishing is difficult ( due to water pollution ) and they can afford less due to inflation. In short the poor are poorer, the middle class have entered the rat race ( not enjoyable )

Like I said, this is not what the population was looking for 10 years ago. They sacrificed for a brighter future, not the current situation.

Om,
Yan

maunakea

Yan,
Remember to stop in Honolulu on one of your trips to Asia. My modified, first gen FS9 (only the frame is original) is still going strong.
I suggest offering a variant of the current FS9 with mechanical disc brakes. The hub and mounts are already on the bike, and there are VERY few (only BF?) 406 folders with disc brakes.
I also suggest an "upgrade kit" for those buyers who wrench. I have more ideas... PM me.
aloha,
mk

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Maunakea,

How are you? I love your bike! Thanks for your idea, the new bikes have disc hubs, disc tabs, and cable routing for discs. I will try to introduce a deluxe model in 2015.

FYI we plan to live in NC for about two more years. We are decompressing from living in the Bahamas too long. I expect to move to Hawaii or Indonesia in a couple years. My flights to Asia normally go through Germany ( wrong way ).

Om,
Yan

overbyte

And Aljazeera last week reported that the Chinese government just released a study showing that 20% of China's farmland is polluted with toxic heavy metals from industry: China says one-fifth of its farmland is polluted | Al Jazeera America; and that China released a report showing 2000 companies failed to follow pollution regulations: China finds over 2,000 companies fail to follow pollution rules | Al Jazeera America; and a leak from an oil pipline owned by a government-owned petroleum corporation has polluted the water supply for 2.4 million people in the city of Lanzhou: China: Water ban for millions after oil spill hits refinery town | Al Jazeera America; air pollution is so bad most of the year that people commonly wear respiratory masks while riding their bicycles. On and on it goes. At least the government now is not hiding all of the truth the way that the communist governments of China and the Soviet Union have done in the past, reminiscent of the George Orwell book 1984. The striving for success is killing the people, not to mention the hazards to their health from a change to a western-style diet with too much meat, dairy, and fast food.

Thanks again for your observations.

maunakea

Yan, you have PM.
mk

CJinPiedmont

Yan and ThorUSA... exactly the two masterminds i wanted to speak too! I am now a new owner of a Downtube 9 front suspension bike frame. thats right. thats all i have. so i'm looking to start building up this bike. the first part i need is a fork. and i was wondering...is it possible to change to a 1 1/8" integrated headset (no headset or bottom bracket or anything!) and use a threadless fork and then install a Dahon Jetstream Handlepost? I see that the Downtube site has the fork, but i think its threaded... thanks for any input from everybody!

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I can not comment on the Jetsteam handlepost. However I have threadless forks, same price as the threaded, let me know if you're interested.

Thanks,
Yan

ThorUSA

the Dahon forks usually have an INSIDE thread for the capscrew to hold onto... BUT you might as well forget the capscrew ...insert a regular star nut and a aheadset cap.... some headsets caps are just a smitten to wide to fit flush with the Dahon stems, but can be easily filed away and than will work great.

I know of peeps installing the shorter than usual jetstream handlepost on all kinds of bikes ...as long as u have enough "meat" in the fork steerer tube.. should be no problem, if steerer tube is too long, either use washers or cut to length

best
thor