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  1. #1
    Senior Member af895's Avatar
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    Howdy folks!

    I have a folder I'm using 20x1.75 85psi tires on but I'm looking for something with less rolling resistance.
    I'm pretty much set on slicks for touring. Anyone use these tires:

    Schwalbe Marathon Slick (35-406)
    Schwalbe Stelvio (28-406)
    Continental Grand Prix (28-406)
    Continental Sport Contact (28-406)

    How are they for performance & flats?

    *** *** ***

    My rims are 17mm between bead flanges... 19mm between bead seats.
    I'm not sure which width is used to determine "safe" tire width...?

    Sheldon Brown's page on tire sizing says 17mm rims are good down to a 25mm wide tire (25-406) and even a 19mm should be fine for 28mm tires so, I should be OK with any of the above tires, right?

    The Stelvio has a Kevlar bead - I've *heard* they're more inclined to peel off but that may just be hooey - or if the rim is too wide.

    Comments or suggestions for other slicks welcome!
    Should I post in the regular forums too since all these tires are available in 700c sizes?

    Thanks folks,
    Chris
    Last edited by af895; 08-01-05 at 07:21 PM.

  2. #2
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    Hey Chris,

    Ive used Schwalbe Stelvio(28-406) before, I gave them three good tries before deciding they were rubbish. I wouldnt recommend them at all for touring, or even commuting, racing is probably ok(if youre expecting a fast, but low life tire). My experience is that they have a very short life span, flat easily, but ride very fast and fairly comfortably. I experienced many torn sidewalls and abrupt sidewall failures. I estimated I got about 500-1000k out of them before they died. I replaced them with some Conti GPs that have now had about 2500k on them and look fairly good for that distance. No flats, no sidewall damage. They seem to run just as a fast, but ride a little rougher.

    I dont have any experience with the Marathon Slicks or Sport Contacts, but if youre running 20x1.75, have you considered Tioga Comp-Pools? I think they'd be a bit wide for your rims, but im not sure. I use them exclusively on my other bike and they seem to be a good long lasting fast touring tire that doesnt flat execessively. I might also suggest you look into a Primo Comet. Ive heard good things about them.

    Matt.
    Greenspeed GTE, M5 Shockproof, GT MTB and many homebuilts.

  3. #3
    Senior Member af895's Avatar
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    Hey Matt!

    Thanks VERY much for the warning about the Stelvios.

    I never got a flat even ONCE over 10,000km with my old 27inch wheel tourer with GT "Gila Monsters" - on a single set of tires no less. I'll avoid the Stelvios.

    I just found some references to the Tioga Comp-Pool and Primo-Comet (Sheldon's site They seem like tires I should look at as well - though I'm leaning toward 20x1.50's or narrower on account of the fairly clean roads around here that I ride on. (no worries about thorns or debris)

    Thank you VERY much for the Conti-GP info. I won't risk the Stelvios but the Contis sound like real winners.

    Cheers!
    Chris

  4. #4
    Raleigh20 PugFixie, Merc LittlePixel's Avatar
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    I've got a pair of Marathon Slicks and Stelvios and both are good; the Stelvios do get the odd puncture but not to the point of feeling like there's a conspiracy against me. When I changed to the Marathons I thought I'd get better puncture protection but in my case I got about the same amount of flats and a less rolling tyre albeit with the safer reflective wall stripe. I love my Dahon Mango Stelvio special editions - they look very cool for one - and I've done something like 500miles with 3 flats. Is that so bad?

  5. #5
    Senior Member af895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittlePixel
    I've got a pair of Marathon Slicks and Stelvios and both are good; the Stelvios do get the odd puncture but not to the point of feeling like there's a conspiracy against me. When I changed to the Marathons I thought I'd get better puncture protection but in my case I got about the same amount of flats and a less rolling tyre albeit with the safer reflective wall stripe. I love my Dahon Mango Stelvio special editions - they look very cool for one - and I've done something like 500miles with 3 flats. Is that so bad?

    3 flats in 500 miles? Ouch!
    Maybe on the roads you're riding that's the norm. Around here, I've yet to flat a slick. (albeit, GT's oddball 700Dx1.3 Gila Monsters)

    I hear the Marathon Plus or plain "Marathon" (non-slick) never flat and Matt suggested the Tioga and Primos. Perhaps I should ditch the idea of a really narrow tire and stick with 1.50 or larger for the puncture resistance...

    Thanks,
    Chris

  6. #6
    Senior Member af895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittlePixel

    BTW: did I mention I LOVE your tricked out Raleigh 20? That's one bad-ass bike.

    Here's a link that'll give you a laugh: http://www.ncf.ca/~af895/bikes/
    That clunker-folder is mostly disassembled in my living room. i'm gonna strip & repaint the frame, spiff it up a bit and keep it as a spare or maybe gift a friend of mine with it. I'd love to find a Raleigh 20 though... they're just rare in these parts.

  7. #7
    Raleigh20 PugFixie, Merc LittlePixel's Avatar
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    I used to have Marathons (not the slicks) on my hybrid and they were pretty solid - you're probably right to go for those - they don't look so fat on your rims - though for 26" wheels they do like 4 different width sizes...

    Thanks for the nice comments on my Twenty! I'm still loving it since finishing it in March. The rims are now silver through brake wear, It's got a different saddle and post (some inbred h addict stole the one pictured), I've taken off the guards and rack for the summer and I've upped the gearing to 54t/16t for more speed - I've got 36mph on it going down a local hill (!) which wasn't as hairy as it sounds. I reckon with no traffic and no load I could get the elusive 40 out of it ha ha ha

    I look forward to seeing your folder once it's tricked out... Interesting frame geometry...

    There are twenty's everywhere here still (here being London UK); There were about 4 on last weeks critical mass ride as well as a Dawes Kingpin and an RSW 16.

    Actually there was a nice piss-green metallic Twenty in the rack when I got to work this morning... Nice to think mine has a friend for the day
    Last edited by LittlePixel; 08-03-05 at 04:26 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member cheg's Avatar
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    The kevlar belted version of the Primo Comets have low rolling resistance and are reasonably flat resistant. They come in 37-406.

  9. #9
    34x25 FTW! oboeguy's Avatar
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    The only flats I've had with the Stelvios I've isolated to 1) broken spoke and 2) lousy patch job after that broken spoke. I've probably ridden them a good 500 miles so far (pretty accurate guess based on # of times on my commute route) and those are the only two I've had. I ride over way too much glass and far too many potholes, etc (this is NYC, duh) so I'd say they've been tested pretty well. Plus I weigh about 195 so it's not like I'm avoiding flats from being super-light.

    Good luck with your decision!

    Edit: the Stelvios are very fast when at max air (120psi).
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
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  10. #10
    Dilettante zbicyclist's Avatar
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    Nicely fitted out Raleigh Twenty. My eyes must be going. I see a double chain ring in the front, but can't see a front derailleur. There seems to be no rear derailleur to take up the slack. So, is the second chainring just for style points, or am I going blind?

  11. #11
    Raleigh20 PugFixie, Merc LittlePixel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbicyclist
    Nicely fitted out Raleigh Twenty. My eyes must be going. I see a double chain ring in the front, but can't see a front derailleur. There seems to be no rear derailleur to take up the slack. So, is the second chainring just for style points, or am I going blind?
    Thanks for your comments... Yes i fitted it with the new invisible front derailleur from SRAM

    Basically - that picture was taken on the day I finished building it. I'd bought the cranks and rings new as a set (couldn't find a single one I liked the look of) so I intended to take off the inner one once I knew about the size of bolts needed. This is my first ever bike build so I had to learn everything on the way. I didn't know they could be different lengths at the time... I'm selling a lot of the things bought in error on eBay at the moment because of this process ...

    So anyway - now it has one chainring - a Stronglight machined aluminium 54t one - and black bolts. There really isn't room for a working front derailleur on a Twenty (Cheg's is just a chain-guide I believe) and since getting my SRAM hub I've not been mad keen on the idea of going back to clunking derailleurs. This way I have a straight chainline, perfect chain tension, no grinding and not one chain drop since it was finished. Obviously I'd love a Rohloff. But that's just silly money....



    That's me - sans helmet - at the london critical mass ride two fridays ago. I have new Conti Grand Prix tyres on order as the rear Stelvio Mango has decided to come apart.
    Never ride a Stelvio semi-flat is the lesson there

  12. #12
    Senior Member af895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittlePixel
    ...

    That's me - sans helmet - at the london critical mass ride two fridays ago. I have new Conti Grand Prix tyres on order as the rear Stelvio Mango has decided to come apart. :(
    Never ride a Stelvio semi-flat is the lesson there

    Sweeeeeet.

    My KHS folder is geared a bit low. Probably good for the rest of this season while I'm retraining my legs but I'm looking at larger chainrings than the current 44/32.

    I've wondered about internally geared hubs. I understand when they're not in "direct drive" mode they lose a slight bit of efficiency. How much are we talking about? Like, "noticable drag" or "nearly imperceptable?"

    I love that the Raleigh 20 folder perserveres even TODAY, decades after it was first produced. That tells you something about the design - just solid! Nutty thought: how difficult would it be to add a rear shock to the '20?

    The '20 has similar geometry to the KHS folders.

    If you look at the "soft tail" on the KHS, there's no rear swing-arm - just the shock between the seat-tube and seat-stays. If I see a used '20 somewhere, I think that'll be my next project. (the junker was a "$0 invested" project ;)

    Keep posting the pics!
    Chris

  13. #13
    Raleigh20 PugFixie, Merc LittlePixel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by af895
    I've wondered about internally geared hubs. I understand when they're not in "direct drive" mode they lose a slight bit of efficiency. How much are we talking about? Like, "noticable drag" or "nearly imperceptable?" Chris
    I have to say I don't notice any real perceptable loss of efficiency with my SRAM Seven. Maybe it's to do with the efficiency of the chain setup cancelling the supposed loss inside the hub? Without all the clanking and worry about misshifting or dropping the chain it's a dream. It does make that characteristic tick-ticking noise all hubs make in a couple of the gears but it's not really an issue. I've read the range on a Shimano nexus isn't as wide so am glad I went for the SRAM.

    Good luck in your adding a shock plan. I imagine some serious metal-working to get that to work. Would it not be easier to use a pantour rear suspension hub? You'd have to use derailleurs but it would do the trick if you can get the stays spread far enough.

  14. #14
    Radfahrer Rincewind8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by af895
    I've wondered about internally geared hubs. I understand when they're not in "direct drive" mode they lose a slight bit of efficiency. How much are we talking about? Like, "noticable drag" or "nearly imperceptable?"
    If I recall "Bicycling Science 3rd Edition" right, they claim an efficiency of about 97-98% for (well maintained and lubricated) derailleur systems, whereas internal gear hubs were at about 92-95% depending on model and chosen gear. It has been a while since I read the book, so I might not remember correctly. If you want me to check it again, drop me a pm!



    Edit: BTW the book is very interesting if you like the technical and science part of cycling.
    TH 1.81 (133kg*62)

  15. #15
    meb
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    Senior Member meb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by af895
    Howdy folks!

    I have a folder I'm using 20x1.75 85psi tires on but I'm looking for something with less rolling resistance.
    I'm pretty much set on slicks for touring. Anyone use these tires:

    Schwalbe Marathon Slick (35-406)
    Schwalbe Stelvio (28-406)
    Continental Grand Prix (28-406)
    Continental Sport Contact (28-406)

    How are they for performance & flats?

    *** *** ***

    My rims are 17mm between bead flanges... 19mm between bead seats.
    I'm not sure which width is used to determine "safe" tire width...?

    Sheldon Brown's page on tire sizing says 17mm rims are good down to a 25mm wide tire (25-406) and even a 19mm should be fine for 28mm tires so, I should be OK with any of the above tires, right?

    The Stelvio has a Kevlar bead - I've *heard* they're more inclined to peel off but that may just be hooey - or if the rim is too wide.

    Comments or suggestions for other slicks welcome!
    Should I post in the regular forums too since all these tires are available in 700c sizes?

    Thanks folks,
    Chris
    As has been mentioned elsewhere, the Stelvios are performance low reliability. My experience on a recumbent has been many pinch flats.

    Not mentioned, and they are hard to locate in the US, is the Vredestein Sslick 35-406 with double sidewall. Fast, reliable.

    Marathons-high RR, high reliability.
    Contis fall between the Stelvios in both areas.
    I think the Vredestein is probably more reliable than the Contis.

  16. #16
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    I have good results with Stelvios ... of course thats one reason I sell them ....
    They do like high pressure and are a little more fragile when "under- inflated"at below 85 lbs ......
    thats when pinch flats will occure the most ...

    Thorsten

  17. #17
    Raleigh20 PugFixie, Merc LittlePixel's Avatar
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    My yellow rear dahon stelvio (folding) died when I rode it semi inflated after an untraceble puncture - the layers all started to peel. Obviously this was not 'fair use' of the tyre but a shame. I've just got some Continental Grand Prix and am very impressed. They are marginally skinnier, seem a lot more robust and the best bit are noticably quicker. Stelvio speed record on the morning downhill: 35.6 mph. First run on the conti's: 37.2 mph. Off the button.

    Who else wishes there were more colours for road tyres in this size?
    (I'm a graphic designer - I can't help but be into the aesthetics!)

  18. #18
    Senior Member Dave Hickey's Avatar
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    I too wish there were more color choices. At least tires come in all black. It wasn't too long ago that the only tires availible had gum colored sidewalls.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Shilun's Avatar
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    Here are some pretty ones!

    Vredestein

  20. #20
    Senior Member af895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittlePixel
    My yellow rear dahon stelvio (folding) died when I rode it semi inflated after an untraceble puncture - the layers all started to peel. Obviously this was not 'fair use' of the tyre but a shame. I've just got some Continental Grand Prix and am very impressed. They are marginally skinnier, seem a lot more robust and the best bit are noticably quicker. Stelvio speed record on the morning downhill: 35.6 mph. First run on the conti's: 37.2 mph. Off the button.

    Who else wishes there were more colours for road tyres in this size?
    (I'm a graphic designer - I can't help but be into the aesthetics!)
    Naw, I'm with you. I'm a sometimes graphic designer too. My life is colour coordinated.

    http://www.schwalbetires.com/racing....es/stelvio.jpg
    Black, mango, white, red, blue. Pretty awesome colour options there.
    If the Marathons came in red or white, I'd have gotten those.

    BTW: the 20x1.50 Marathons (40-406) arrived yesterday! YEAAAAAAAAAAH!

    I put the new Presta tubes in, bought a digital gauge (no way was I going to overinflate and pop 'em) and went for a ride.

    !!!

    HOLY COW.

    I log my rides. Usual average is 14 to 16km/h (yeah, I'm outta shape, I know) with the 60psi semi-knobby 20x2.0's that came with the bike.

    With the Marathons at 80psi, I averaged 20km/h over a 7km loop.



    Tonight, at the suggestion of Celeste at Schwalbe, I'm bumping the pressure up to 90psi. (max is 100)
    Man, what a difference!



    The white retro-reflective sidewall stripe looks sharp and the overall "fit and finish" of these tires is top-notch.

    More to report once I have a hundred miles on 'em.
    Got a Brooks B67 slated to arrive tomorrow. I'm borrowing a comfort saddle that isn't that bad but my butt is the limiting factor for my rides.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Shilun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by af895
    Vredesteins come highly recommended but their selection in 20inch sizes is limited.
    Look carefully: those coloured "S-licks" are only available in black for 20" wheels. 26" comes in colours.

    Stelvios aside, I don't know of any 20" in colours though I'm open to suggestions.

    You're right. My eyes never looked down the whole column. Apologies to all. Strange though. Why on earth wouldn't they offer 20" in the same range of colours. I can't imagine that there would be any significant extra cost to the company.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Shilun's Avatar
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    While you're on the Vredestein site, check out the section on Tyre Technology - lots of interesting technical info there.

    http://www.vredestein.com/Fietsbande...52949&MenuID=6

  23. #23
    Karl Ulrich - Xootr LLC
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    Warning on the Stelvio (mango version):

    I had just inflated my tires to about 100psi and headed upstairs to grab something. I heard a huge BANG. I found the Stelvio is shreds with the kevlar bead broken and the sidewall just blown apart in a 4 inch section. This tire had maybe 500 miles on it. It had been punctured maybe twice already (but not on a sidewall). In sum, I not only think these tires have reliability issues, I wouldn't dare ride on them given the risk of a catastrophic blowout. In my 30 years of cycling, I've never seen a tire fail like this. Fortunately, it failed on the front walk with no one on the bike.

  24. #24
    Senior Member af895's Avatar
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    OUCH.

    Defect perhaps? Contact Schwalbe - explain the situation. No tire should self-destruct at 500 miles, *especially* if it's just sitting. Maybe over a pothole or curb. Is it particularly hot in your house?

    Might try a Marathon Slick instead. I have the standard Marathons but folks here have suggested the slicks fall somewhere between the standard Marathon and the Stelvios for durability.
    Last edited by af895; 08-17-05 at 08:24 AM.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Dave Hickey's Avatar
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    I use the Marathon Sticks on my Bike Friday. I'm very happy with them. I have about 1700 miles on a pair and they are still going strong

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