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  1. #1
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Surly S&S coupler - Folding?

    I have a Surly Cross w/ couplers, is it considered a folding bike?
    http://www.surlybikes.com/crosscheck.html

  2. #2
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    Sweet bike! Most people wouldn't consider it a folder though. I would still be called a "travel bike" or "collapsible/demountable bicycle" though. Folders are designed to be collapsed and expanded frequently and rapidly, but make more compromises for this functionality than your cross-check.

  3. #3
    lws
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    who sliced and diced it?

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    How big is your suitcase (and your frame size)? It looks lke you've done minimal disassembly (pedals/cranks/fork/stem (but handelbars noted off of stem), so I imagine your case must be rather large.

    To get mine (a Jamis Nova with S&S and a titanium frame with S&S, both 57cm top tube) into a 26x26x10" case (external dimension) it's much easier to pull off the cranks, the fork, the stem, handlebars. I can do this fairly rapidly, with assembly at around 20 minutes, but it exercises one of the downsides to the S&S solution: normal components are not designed for this much assembly/disassembly during a normal lifetime. I've broken bolts already and haven't done this more than 10 times.

    Quote Originally Posted by carless
    I have a Surly Cross w/ couplers, is it considered a folding bike?
    http://www.surlybikes.com/crosscheck.html

  5. #5
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    Which fasteners are failing? I've never had a fastener fail that wasn't either way too cheap or way too expensive. Are these bolt failures specific to the S&S method of collpsing a frame?

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    I'm curious as to how much time it takes to fold the S&S machine in half? If you can fold that machine in half, so that a bag can be put over it, then yes it can be considered a folder. A fast fold no matter how sloppy still makes it a folding bike. I don't know if this is the case although.

  7. #7
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    you don't really "fold" an s&s bike. You unscrew the couplings, cable splitters, etc and take off the bars, wheels, etc. for packing. I had one for a long time and loved it. It's a pretty involved process getting it packed and unpacked, but once it's built up, it's a no compromises, full size bike.

    and to jasong, you should really try to pack that thing without removing the cranks and fork. For me, it was always a challenge and I did remove the rear derailleur, but I never removed the cranks or fork, since as you say those weren't really designed to come on and off frequently. tinkering with headset adjustment everytime I unpack a bike is not my idea of fun. unless that frame is like 60cm or more, it ought to work. mine was a 56cm bianchi.

  8. #8
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lws
    who sliced and diced it?
    Steve Rex
    http://rexcycles.com/
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
    -- Mahatma Gandhi

  9. #9
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasong
    How big is your suitcase (and your frame size)? It looks lke you've done minimal disassembly (pedals/cranks/fork/stem (but handelbars noted off of stem), so I imagine your case must be rather large.

    To get mine (a Jamis Nova with S&S and a titanium frame with S&S, both 57cm top tube) into a 26x26x10" case (external dimension) it's much easier to pull off the cranks, the fork, the stem, handlebars. I can do this fairly rapidly, with assembly at around 20 minutes, but it exercises one of the downsides to the S&S solution: normal components are not designed for this much assembly/disassembly during a normal lifetime. I've broken bolts already and haven't done this more than 10 times.
    http://www.sandsmachine.com/ac_back.htm
    Backpack Case
    I have converted it to a fixed gear, it's not a tourer.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
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  10. #10
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
    I'm curious as to how much time it takes to fold the S&S machine in half? If you can fold that machine in half, so that a bag can be put over it, then yes it can be considered a folder. A fast fold no matter how sloppy still makes it a folding bike. I don't know if this is the case although.
    I have changed it to a fixed gear, so essentially breakdown is >1 minute. To pack it you take off the wheels and turn the handlebars. The best use of this is transportation, trains and planes. I save $50 on a shuttle to the airport and $100 roundtrip on the flight, same idea on a bus, train.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
    -- Mahatma Gandhi

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    Not the S&S ones - they seem to be quite good. I'm talking about bolts for the stem face plate, crank bolts, derailleur bolts, anything that needs to be taken apart to cram everything into a box. The S&S design relies on everything else being repeatedly disassembled. I don't believe that'll be the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by awagner
    Which fasteners are failing? I've never had a fastener fail that wasn't either way too cheap or way too expensive. Are these bolt failures specific to the S&S method of collpsing a frame?

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    Have you ever seen it on a baggage cart or coming down the belt with another 50lb bag on top of it? That's what Im scared of seeing: it being treated like a clothes bag or a soft shell backpack and ending up at the bottom of a pile at the airport.

    Luckily, because I built my case and didn't put any wheels on it (and I usually stuff it to the limit at 70lbs), it usually gets special treatment since it's shape is a bit awkward - there are typically no square box luggages out there of that size (26x26x10).

    Quote Originally Posted by carless
    http://www.sandsmachine.com/ac_back.htm
    Backpack Case
    I have converted it to a fixed gear, it's not a tourer.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasong
    Not the S&S ones - they seem to be quite good. I'm talking about bolts for the stem face plate, crank bolts, derailleur bolts, anything that needs to be taken apart to cram everything into a box. The S&S design relies on everything else being repeatedly disassembled. I don't believe that'll be the case.
    Again, I'm curious as to which parts exactly failed, since I would consider upgrading these parts (to stronger, not lighter version) on my bike at the same time I dissasemble it for S&S retrofit. Did you strip threads in your stem? Strip threads in your crank bolt? Have a derailleur bolt fail catastrophically? Was it an alloy part or a steel part? Are you sure the dammage was from the re-assembly, or could it have been an impact during shipping?

    Thanks,
    Drew

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    I've broken stem bolts, rounded out crank (to bottom bracket) bolts, seen bolts with "thin" sections from overuse, and seen general thread wear in other things I've pulled off. I just don't think those fasteners, nor their threaded hole, are rated at a high number of insertions/extractions when brought to proper torque limits. I also lightly grease all threaded components to help wear.

    I don't think the damage was done during transit, because the fastener was out of the hole and the hole isn't likely to be damaged by transit. My problem may be a bit more particular since I do a lot of disassembly to get it into the box. It takes a lot less time to pull off the cranks (especially with a 1key ultegra crank) and pull out the fork than try to find the permutation that lets everything fit in the case. Pulling other stuff off seems less likely that damage would occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by awagner
    Again, I'm curious as to which parts exactly failed, since I would consider upgrading these Drew

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasong
    I've broken stem bolts, rounded out crank (to bottom bracket) bolts, seen bolts with "thin" sections from overuse, and seen general thread wear in other things I've pulled off. I just don't think those fasteners, nor their threaded hole, are rated at a high number of insertions/extractions when brought to proper torque limits. I also lightly grease all threaded components to help wear.
    Thanks Jason! -Drew

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