Wavshrdr

You can ride with panniers on a Swift. I have my Swift setup to easily do it. I just bought 2 Bromptons and I can tell you if I only had 1 bike it wouldn't be a Brompton! That big Brompton bag up front is a great air dam to slow you down. I have the 22 liter cloth pannier and it slows me down MUCH more than two panniers behind me on the Swift. If you want the Swift to ride great see my bike here:

https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/172250-they-said-couldn-t-done-i-am-redefining-swift-little-little.html

If you want to see with rack and bag go here (but this is before I changed tires):

https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...&postcount=227

This has my rear rack on there with the bab that has fold down panniers as well. I have size 13 feet and if my feet don't hit the bags, only Shaq's will! The rack is quite useful and I often have grocery bag panniers on it or other types of bags or panniers on it. The Swift as I've built it is FAR faster, smoother, useful and more comfortable (ride quality and ergo's) than the Brompton. The only place where the Brompton trumps the Swift is in folded size.

I love how narrow the Swift is when folded in that it is easy to go through gates and turnstyles. It is taller but faster and less fiddling. I have also carried a ton of groceries on my Swift and my large frame with absolutely no issues. The brakes on the Bromptons suck compared to most. What model were you looking at? FYI- here is a review I just wrote about my Brompton purchase of 2 days ago (my detailed review after purchase is post #18):

https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/173030-should-shouldn-t-i-thinking-about-brompton.html

I would definitely spend more time riding bikes unless you have already made up your mind. I have no skin in the game so to speak and I have both the Brompton and Swift (and a few others) so I am pretty objective and not worshipping at the altar of any manufacturer. The Swift is the one bike that can really do it all with very little tweaking. The Brompton is more of a "one-trick-pony" but if you need that 1 trick nobody does it better...yet.

edzo

teh real deal with a brompton comes down to this (methinks)

Price ....Brommies cost some bucks
Weight...they aren't the lightest but who cares ? work it !
Brakes suck....not really. they lock up either end. grab them hard,
or install new brakes. done.

Tune your Brompton and it'll take care of you.
-----------------------------------------
after that, why NOT get a Brompton ????

It is the best...foldability, portability, ride quality...

there is no reason not to, only reasons /to get one....

Parts....Brommies share a lot of common parts with all english bikes,
EZ to service when in some weird land

Performance....You can ride Bromptons pretty hard, through busted up
Amsterdam sidewalk repairs, dirt trails, planks, cobbles, smooth street,
and if you are frisky and have 100psi in the baloney skins it'll freakin FLY.

Shopping...the Brompton wins hands down. You can use the front bag/frame, ride your
Brompton to the store, fold it up (the bag stays upright) go shopping pulling the
Brompton behind you (whilst folded) as a shopping cart, load up the bag, pay for your stuff,
wheel it out and unfold the bike (the bag stays upright during folding procedures, goods do not fall out) and away you go. brilliant.

The Brompton truly is the 100k commuter bike, the coffee bike, the beer-run bike, the groceries bike, easy to service bike. REAL bike that rides solid and strong. the only flimsy feeling bits are the handlebars. You flex them when honking hard, but they will not bend or break (unless of course they are actually damaged in some way.)



I use my Brompton to go out on MTB trails for blowdown maintenance. I carry saws, hatchets,
pry-bars and an axe on me brommie out on the trail. she loves it.

Simple Simon

Sorry, but I just dont get the swift - it hardly folds at all !!
Why not have a full sized bike and a real folder ? ....

Totally biased opinion from a MTBiker and brompton owner :-)

Wavshrdr

SS- If you ride the Swift you would better understand it. It is as fast and efficient as a Bike Friday. You can easily customize it almost anyway you want with standard component (unlike Brompton and many Dahon models). It folds up smaller than you think but it is a taller and narrower and package then a Dahon but not as compact as a Brompton.

The Swift is very narrow when folded and it is quite easy to take through a turnstyle or gate that is narrow. The Brompton's claim to fame is it is a compact folder. The Swift is a great bike that just happens to fold. So the way to look at is do you want a great folder or a great bike that happens to fold...

Simple Simon

OK ... looks like (another) one for the wish list :-) I'd love a direct comparison with say a Dahon Jack, (also on wish list) which seems to fold to a similar size, and has 26" wheels.

Eggplant Jeff

Wavshrdr, there is no way that swift folds much with that rack on there. Raise the seat, fold the wheel under, drop the seat... the rack's still gonna stick out a bunch. Plus the seatpost you have doesn't look like it has room to drop down significantly either. What you've got there is a very nice general purpose small bike that happens to fold somewhat.

I am looking for a great folder. I agree the swift is a nice bike but I just don't think it's what I'm looking for in terms of foldability. I could totally see having it as a second bike (I liked it more than my current full-size bike), but I'm looking first and foremost for a small folder to ride to work.

I'm not looking for a bike I can customize. I probably wouldn't change anything on a brompton other than the seat (oh and lights). It already has all the stuff I'd want to add to a different bike (fenders, way to carry stuff, etc). I'm also not looking for a bike that can go off-road or take massive abuse or anything. I'm gonna ride it to work. It's gonna see potholes and stuff but that's about it. I'm not looking for a bike that is easy to service. I'm used to working on cars. Compared to cars, servicing anything on ANY bike is like a paint-by-numbers book after doing the sistene chapel. Plus getting service done on a bike is so cheap (again compared to cars) that I'll probably just drop it off if it needs anything significant done anyway.

Tomaso

Hi Jeff,

It's not a Dahon, nor a Brompton, but maybe a MEZZO-bike might be worth checking?......

It seems to fold easy, and looks like a compact package when folded

www.mezzobikes.com


Just an idea

Eggplant Jeff

Interesting looking bike. Unfortunately their "Find a dealer" page lists only counties in England (I'm in the US). I'd want to ride it before trying to order one. It looks like it'd have the same problem as the brompton when it comes to the rack... my feet would hit anything on the rack.

Wavshrdr gets around that problem by using a seatpost clamp rack, which is a lot higher. Most of the racks that come on folders are so low and close to the pedals that they'd be a problem for me.

Dahon.Steve

Here's my opinion.

If you have to board the bus, then get a 16' inch wheel folder. A larger package may not be allowed inside the cabin but I've heard Bike Fridays owners do all the time so this may be more imaginary than anything else. Still. It's always better to board the inside the cabin of a bus with the smallest package possible.

Otherwise, you're better off getting a folding bike that has 20' inch wheels. You're going to want to do some weekend riding and a 20' inch folder without a hub gear is more efficient and faster than any 16' inch wheel 3 speed bicycle. I've never heard of a Bike Friday or Dahon owner that was kicked off a train because the package was too big so this fear is unwarranted. Comfort and performance mean everything and you really can feel the difference between between a 16 and 20 inch wheel bicycle. People keep saying the larger folding size will makes it inferror or that the smallest possible package is an advantage. Can you tell me where this 15-20% increase in size will makes it inferrior? I've been able to board buses and trains with a 20 inch wheel bicycle and never had a problem. Is there any Bike Friday owner on this forum who was kicked off a train on this forum because I would like to know. You won't find them because they don't exist! Seriously. The smallest possible package is not an advantage but a compromise.

From personal experience, I've been able to get my 20' inch wheel Dahon Speed 7 on buses and trains. The size was not more important but weight was. The weight of the folder can be a real probem and the lighter the better. The Brompton weights as much as the Dahon Piccolo and that's about 25-27 lbs! That's heavy.

My advice is to get a 20 inch wheel folder unless you intend to board the bus every day with your folder.

Eggplant Jeff

I have a full-size bike, so weekend rides are no big deal. The folder is just for work (well, unless I decide I like it more of course). And boarding the bus/train every day is a possibility, it will depend on where I work and where I live (neither of which is set in stone yet).

The brompton was perfectly comfortable to ride, small wheels or not. That rubber grommet, while very primitive, is still a very effective suspension. In fact it was a lot more comfortable than the swift with the larger wheels. I'll probably be running a sprung brooks saddle anyway so my butt is going to be perfectly happy no matter what I get .

And regarding the weight, my current commuter bike weighs close to 50 lbs loaded. Any folder is going to be a huge drop from that no matter what. And as far as carrying the weight, the brompton is the only one that allows you to wheel it behind you like a piece of luggage. I can REALLY see that being a handy feature.

juan162

Eggplant Jeff,
I think you have done your homework and have figured out the best folder for you at this time. Don't be surprised, though if in a little while you start to wonder what it would be like to have one of the other folders just for a change of pace. BEWARE, FOLDERS ARE VERY ADDICTIVE!!! I just wanted to warn you in advance that you'll probably end up with more than one...I'm cheap, but already have 2 and am thinking of at least 2 more purchases. Good luck, and let us know what you think after you've bought it and road it for a few,
juan162

Wavshrdr

No issues with folding my Swift with the rack. I just rotate it forward over the bars. Also it is easily removed and functional unlike the lame rack on the Bromptons. Also the if you go with the normal seat post you can get it lower but my Thudbuster doesn't affect the fold very adversely. I have other pictures of it without the Thudbuster and rack too.

As for ride comfort, I don't know what tires were on the Swift you rode. I can tell you that with the Big Apples on my Swift it rides better than the softest riding tires on my Brompton even with the suspension. Also keep in mind that if you pick up the Brompton that if always wants to fold under which sometimes is a PITA! Also the brakes are pretty much worthless on a Brompton and I have already spent over $100 trying to make them better and now I can say they are almost mediocre. It is chronic problem with the breed so to speak.

If you need the ultimate small fold then the Brompton may be the best choice. If you don't then almost every folder is better. The Brompton is miserable to change the rear tire on. I suggest you do a search on that as well. I just had my first flat and it was on the rear (of course). Changing the rear tire on the side of the road is such an issue that they many riders suggest putting a tube on the rear fram in the correct position from the comfort of you own home. Then you won't have to try and pull the wheel if you get a flat. After my experience I would highly suggest you do this as well.

So far my Brompton experience is they are cool to look at, test ride but not so fun to own. All their warts become glaringly obvious after living with one for a few days. OTOH the chassis isn't bad and it is small. You define your priorities and if small is most important then buy a Brommie but do a lot of research so you really know what to expect. On the Brompton forums you will see hundreds of posts about brake upgrades. If you don't have hills or ride fast it might not be much of an issue. If you like to tinker then they are a great platform because the need a lot of tinkering. Just look how they expose the cables on the brakes? Cables exit vertically so water runs right down the sheath. The levers are crap and should be thrown away (and I did). I ran all new lines, better housing, new levers and better pads to get it so I could actually make the bike stop and then no where near as good as my Swift, BF, Downtube or Dahon.

I love it and hate the Brommie at the same time. I need it but really don't want to ride it at the same time.

igor455

What would a brompton 6 spd cost in us dollars? I have a 3 spd dahon adn a 27 speed bike friday. I dont commute with a bike but I do have one with me all the time. It is maazing what i can fit into the trunk of my sheriffs crown vic.I need to ride because i am a diabetic adn i like riding Igor the used to be bike cop deputy sheriff

Wavshrdr

I think the 6 speed Bromptons start at about the $850 range and go up quickly from there. Basically you get fenders and the 6 speed and a better front brake than the C model and possibly better tires. You don't get that much more gear range with the 6spd vs. the 3spd either. I was sort of surprised. To get a really fun Brompton would cost about $2,000 from what I've seen.

juan162

For my needs and wants, the Bromptons are out of my league price wise. I want a 16" wheel folder, but will wait for the downtube. At downtube prices, I won't feel bad upgrading anything I don't like,
juan162

Eggplant Jeff

As far as the brakes go, I rode two Bromptons, one brand new (it had the P-handlebars which I wanted to try) and one a couple years old that was the shop's "test ride" bike. The old one definitely had mediocre brakes but the brakes on the new one were fine. Perhaps they are improved in the current year's models?

The 6-speed is a 3-speed hub with a 2-speed derailler. The two gears (at least by default) are 13 and 15 tooth. Basically it gives you a gear in between each of the 3-speed's gears, plus one gear that's higher (or lower depending on the cog and chainring sizes you choose for the 6-speed vs the 3 speed). So instead of:
1, 2, 3
you have:
1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5

The six speed doesn't add much total range, it gives you more gradual increments. Shifting is very wierd too since to go from "1" to "1.5" you'd shift up on the left shifter, then to go from "1.5" to "2" you'd shift DOWN on the left shifter and UP on the right (if you just shifted up on the right you'd go from "1.5" to "2.5"). Also the derailler can only be shifted when pedalling (just like normal) but the hub gear shifts best with no load. So depending which one you're shifting you either pause for a moment while flipping the shifter or don't.

The guy at the shop said it isn't too hard to get used to but it is definitely not what you're accustomed to. However after I test-rode them I decided I'd just stick with the 3-speed and deal with the larger spread between gears.

At the shop I went to, $2089 would buy you THE top of the line brompton. Most expensive handlebars, 6 speed, every titanium bit they offer, hub generator + lights, etc. For the options I want I'm looking at about half that. If you're just going to buy an "a la carte" brompton (pick your options and get it built) I think the 6-speed adds $100-200 over the 3 speed.

Dahon.Steve

Neither of my Dahon folding bikes were comfortable (Piccolo, Speed 7). However, this was fixed when I installed a suspension seat post on my Piccolo and a Brooks Champion Flyer on my Speed 7. I rode the Swift and agree it needs a Brooks Champion flyer.

The Brompton has rolling wheels but here's my take on it. There was a guy using the rollers and was constantly going down and bending over to push the bike. Yes, it did look funny and did draw attention. To date, I've seen very few people use this feature because it looks strange having to practically get down on the floor to push it every few feet! You think it's a handy feature but the "stares" might be a little too much.

I've been able to do the same thing with my Piccolo or Speed 7 by keeping the seat post up, folding the bike in two and rolling it on the front wheel. It looks strange but is effective in rolling the bike across a train platform.

Dahon.Steve

It's incredible how much Brompton wants for their bikes. Spending $2,089.00 for a utility bike is waaaay too much. The US dollar has dropped so much that you're really paying a lot for the poor exchange rate and not quality. Have you checked out what you can get on BikeFirday.com for that kind of money? Night and day.

folder fanatic

I agree with you up to a point, Dahon Steve. I would not spend 2000 dollars for any bike-even a performance one. I find that once you go beyond a middle priced model for any make-be it Dahon, Brompton or Bike Friday-you are paying for ego enhancement, not for any real gains in performance. My guess is the person in question, Eggplant Jeff, has been conditioned to pay more because he has not been educated in bike usage like his more astute European and Asian counterparts. The people who use bikes the most tend to have simple machines that are dependable, not too flashy, and does it's job well. Americans are conditioned to have the best-even though it may not be on closer examination.

I myself have both the Dahon and the Brompton entry level bikes. Each does it's job, yet the Brompton has definate quality gains over the Dahon (which in itself is a perfectly satisfactory bike to use). I prefer the Brompton over the Dahon any time even if means paying a lot more for the difference in money value across the borders. Dahon has it but it is more hidden. And another thing to consider is it's foldability factor. Bike Friday is big on performance, but folding is secondary since it is not very good for nonsuitcase transit options. Dahon and others are bulky compared to Brompton and Strida.

balto charlie

Hey Jeff What types of hills did you try the Brompton on? Will you be riding hills on your regular commute. I too like the folder size but worry about my hills, which kick my a$$ on a touring bike. Charlie

Dahon.Steve

Agreed.

I find that the best utility bicycle in my stable is NOT my folding bike but a 15 year old scratched up Univega Hybrid that I'll leave outside while shopping! I hide the bike and avoid cycle racks and I'm fine. Lugging a folding bike through the mall or supermarket is not fun at all. In fact, I've only seen one Brompton owner in my whole life lug that bike in Sears. There are thousands of folding bike owners but most leave them outside locked to some pole! Seriously. Lugging a 25 pound bike throughout the mall is no fun at all even with rollers.

Simple Simon

Thats also what I hate about Brompton (and other folding bikes) - having to carry them - along with bashed shins . For this, railway platforms, long office corridors, and anywhere indoors, Stridas just rock ! You roll it along just like a wheeled stick. Then park it vertically (with those handlebar brake loops) next to the counter, or almost anywhere.

folder fanatic

Well, for me the folders that I have are mainly intended and purchased for emergencies i.e. transit strikes, riots, terrorist attacts, natural disasters (of which Southern California has seen it's fair share or at least threatened seriously with). These types of bikes with internal hub gears-rather than derailleurs which are more prone to damage-are the best for that purpose. I did not try to be cheap with the components used.

In wartime, the folder was developed to [I]stay[/I] with it's user unless parachuting out of a plane or something. From what I was told, the bikes were in constant use. They were not locked up to the nearest post. I usually don't like to take bikes with me otherwise-too much hassle and danger around here.

Guest

You don't sound like you travel at all.

It sounds like you need a folder just to get around town or something along those ends. Don't judge me to your standards. I do tours- world tours. A simple bike that you seem to cherish will most likely not suit my needs. I rode through Italy and Switzerland. Do you really think your low level bike would suit my needs? If you do, you need to travel more often.

I got a Bike Friday. I decided to go with the custom bike. Why? Because I want a bike that's comfortable for me. If you've ever taken a trip where you've had to haul 50+ pounds of gear up and down mountains all day, you'd want to be as comfortable as you can too. I also upgraded the components on my BF. Why? Because if you're hauling 50+ pounds of gear up and down mountains all day, you better pray your gears shift as smoothly as possible. I've done mountain rides (and tours) on lower end bikes with average components. I also paid extra for the luggage that comes with the BF. Why? Because it's one of the most secure luggages that convert to a trailer. It makes things totally easy for me, and it ensures that my touring goes as smoothly as possible. To say that I did this for ego means you know very little about folders except what your mind conceives of them to be used for.

Thankfully, folders have such a variety of uses that if you just need to tool around town, you can get a folder for that and not make that big investment. But the more you're going to need that folder for, the more high end it's going to go, and the more it's going to cost. And sure, there will always be people that think they can do a full Swiss tour across the Alps on a Itsy Breezer. God bless 'em. But for those who want a bit more comfort and want a higher performance bike, then don't fault them for putting the money down. It just looks narrow minded, and not to insult you, but it looks cheap.

I find it laughable that you're claiming my bike friday is non-transitable. I always can get on any bus or train by folding it down and sticking a sheet over it or throwing a big garbage bag over it. If it can fold, it will be transit-able.

Tell you what. Next time I plan my next trip overseas, I'll tell you in advance. You can bring your basic folding bike and we'll take the Alps one mountain at a time. I'll try not to let my ego get in the way.

Koffee

Eggplant Jeff

Well he must have wanted to do it that way, since all you have to do is leave the handlebars unfolded and you can use them as a handle to wheel the bike around WITHOUT bending over. And you can leave the luggage attached to them too and you have a neat little luggage cart that is stable and allows access to your stuff.