jss273nyc

Wow VInce, those are pretty strong words for a bike forum...how much is Yan paying you? Looks like were going to have A Downtube centric focused club after all....

caotropheus

Sincerely I haven't understand your antagonism against Yan's active participation in this forum and his interaction with clients or potencial clients. Anyhow I would like to guess...I know now! You have your own folding bicycle company and you are afraid of Yan's dinamic competition !

juan162

jss273nyc,
I don't see where you are getting THAT notion from. I read and reread the posts on this thread, and it seems like the only person using strong words is YOU!!! Vince has been on this forum for way longer than you or I have been,and if you check all of his postings (which you can do by clicking his name) you will see that he has been more than polite, helpful to others, and equally interested in all different folder brands. I am not a personal friend of either Vince or Yan, but find both of their input useful and informative. I can also understand Vince wanting to defend Yan, since he has never "advertised" his product as some newbie's like to think and has been involved in dicussions COMPLETELY UNRELATED to downtubes. I suggest you read and reread things before making such critical and inflammatory remarks toward other members.
Yan, when you read this thread, PLEASE don't let it stop you from posting as you have done in the past. I have never found you to be pushing your own product. On the contrary, I have found that because of your unique status as being an owner of a folding bike company, people end up asking you questions they have always wanted to ask of a bike company owner(As I have done in the past...thanks for answering back, by the way) - people like to get the answer straight from the horses mouth, as it were. The only other times I have seen Yan post were to offer great and unexpected customer service to Downtube owners, way above and beyond the call of duty in some cases.
To get back to the point, last time I checked the top 10 folding bike threads, there were only 2 or 3 about Downtube. You know what that means? People are talking about Bromptons, Dahons, and everything else in between. You know what else that means? It sounds like some people are picking UNFAIRLY on the one folding bike company owner that actually bothers to come to this forum!!! If you don't want to read about Downtubes, then read the 100 other threads about folding bikes...it's really not that hard to do. In the meantime, I'm as interested in what Yan has to say about folding bikes as I am what you have to say ABOUT FOLDING BIKES...lay off the members and and they'll lay off of you. VINCE WAS TRYING TO DEFEND A BIKEFORUM MEMBER WHO IS OBVIOUSLY TOO POLITE TO DEFEND HIMSELF!!! 'nuff said, juan162

Tomaso

Let's get back to what this thread is about :starting-up a forum for folder-users

C'mon people, I am sorry I brought this old issue up, let's use our brains to help Rafael and Wav. with their beautiful plans.

I feel like I'm in the middle of a family-twist, and I feel guilty as hell

I have spoken and will now shut up, till the storm has come down

juan162

Tomaso,
You should not feel guilty. You did not speak ill of anyone and simply gave an opinion. It is when people start attacking others that problems start. I'll get off my soapbox now and say that even with this thread going the way it has, I firmly believe we can have an open dialog about the strengths and weaknesses of all folders. I can't really afford a brompton as it cost so much once they reach the US, but I love reading about them and love to hear about all folders....even ones I can't get my grubby paws on!!!
Sorry for my part...let's get down to business!!!
juan162

14R 

Tomaso,

I think you brought an interesting point, but I don't think it's Yan's fault. If we had ALL Folding Bikes representatives listening to us, adapting their products and explaining why we should buy something from them instead of the competition here (or at any other forum), I'm sure 1) we would have better bikes and 2) Yan wouldn't be the focus of an issue.

I would love to have a chance to listen to bike manufacturers' selling points. I would love to have bike manufacturers replying my e-mails, or real letters, or answering my phone calls, which, by the way, never happened until I bought a Downtube. If Yan is the only one doing that, he may sound or look pushy to sell his product (which may be a big turn off for some). But I can assure you that at the same time that a folder club will not be downtube (or any other brand) focused, manufacturers will be more than welcome to let us know more about their product. That is IF we end up creating one

Rafael Guerra

PS: My bike is a Giant and I am not making a dime to post this.

juan162

I agree with you Rafael,
I'm dying to hear from Giant, Dahon, Swift, Brompton, Airnimal...you get the point. The whole point of starting a sight is to have a good base of info for newbies, provide new and interesting stories and reports on all sorts of folders for those with more experience, and creating a group of members strong enough that the companies might actually come to us to post new developments and ask for feedback...hopefully it'll happen. Some free bikes wouldn't hurt either - one from every company would do just fine!!!
juan162

Tomaso

Rafael, Juan,

Thanks.
Just an idea: you could create some sort of a sub-division on the forum, in which manufacturers could advertise and reply to questions / issues posted by members, seperate from the 'general forum'.
For advertising people will then have to pay you, for replying to questions not of course.
This way we might make everybody happy: people who don't want to read the 'commercial blabla' will have the choice
The Dahon-forum is build-up great (IMO), seperates the different aspects of folding bikes, and looks well-organized.

Again, I am just brainstorming.....

juan162

Tomaso,
The purpose of a forum is to let anyone speak their mind (politely, of course) no matter who they are or what they do. I think we just simply don't see eye to eye...I have never felt that at any point there has been someon trying to advertise.
juan162

oldguy52

jss273nyc, My good man, I believe you need to look around the forum a bit. There is certainly no shortage of talk about Raleigh 20s or Swifts ( now there's a SERIOUS thread for ya') here either just to mention a couple recent examples. I doubt you could make a case for the downtube threads dominating this forum if you took a good honest look around.

And Really, if you have a question about YOUR bike, who would you rather have answer it?? Some owner who might be guessing, or the guy that builds them??? Thanks, but I'll take the guy who builds them everytime.

Yan isn't too obnoxious about his presence here and we all know who he is ..... I really don't have a problem with it. Now if you'd just get over it, we'd all be happy.

oldguy52

I don't really know what you guys have been doing so far. I've been a bit swamped and haven't been in here a lot on the last few days. If you've ever looked at my sig, you can see I also own a couple recumbents. So, I also frequent "Bent Rider Online". If you go to their page, https://www.bentrideronline.com/ ,You'll see a whole lot of links for bike companies, parts companies, apparel outfits, whatever. All those folks pay something to have a link at the top of that page.

In fact there was just recently quite a discussion on that board about whether it should go to purely user donations or if they should keep all the advertising links. It was pretty unanimous amongst the posters that they wanted to keep the links in place as most of the list members used them quite regularly to find the things they needed. Most were happy to support the businesses that were supporting them. I don't know how receptive the folding bike builders would be to this, but there's a heck of a lot of 'bent builders links on that site.

Food for thought

Rik

Ericx25

I'm a also a newbie here and I TOTALLY agree with jss273nyc: " all of this Downtube talk has made me want to frequent this site less as a resource for folding bike info"

I personally don't appreciate manufacturers' interventions in "our" forum.

Eric

v1nce

I agree with al almost all the comments above with the obvious exceptions. I just wanted to make it clear that i don't want to exclude ANYONE from any public discussion if they have something positive to offer. That does not mean they have to agree with me at all, in fact it often find it more helpfull when they don't, otherwise there is no discussion or room for thought. But a respectfull open attitude without heaps of judgement i would like to see.
.
As for folders, i love them all, especially if they are well made. I'd love to see more of them around of any brand.

The comment about me working for Yan. It is funny that that should be brought up. I would like nothing better in fact because i do feel (IMO) his company is a very nice one. Yan knows this, i have spoken to him (about a week ago for the first time) on this topic and i hope i will one day do a little free lance work for him. But for the time being i have never bought nor gotten anything material from him. Long before i even thought of working in any part of the bike industry (just yesterday i applied for a job at an LBS) i advocated DT's, simply because i think they are really great. If you read some threads you will also see that i gave many props to Dahon, BF, Swifts, Brommies, Twenties and a whole lot of others.

Also rest assured that if Yan was not a nice guy, made a shoddy product or suddenly became a money grubbing marketeer (all which at present seem almost inconceivable) i would never even consider working for him and be most verbal about why i don't like his practices.

What this all boils down is that i think it is completely inconsequential who works for what or who might one day. It is also unimportant who likes what brand. What people say and how they do it does matter however. If we must judge each other (i hope we don't actually) then do it on the basis of our contributions, our words and our ideas, not based on the preferences of brand of whether we like a manufacturer posting or not. That seems silly.

In any case i wish you all very well and harbour no grudges whatever. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and should feel free to express it within reason. That is also exactly what i have done all along as well. I am very glad and gratefull that the regular posters have been so supportive of me and these notions in this thread and elsewhere, it means a whole lot to me. Thank you.

Ride On!

oldguy52

Uh ...... so tell me, what is it you don't like about it. All of the Downtube threads (except one that I can think of) were started by sombody other than Yan. These people all asked a question about a particular bike and in this case Yan was kind enough to answer it for them. Right answer, first time. How can there be anything wrong with that?? Try to get that kind of service from your bike builder.

caotropheus

I refered this already twice in this thread, but here we go again. Isn't this forum of better quality with the presence of professionals? No dought it is and it is really a piety that other manufactures don't participate in the most populated bicycle forum in the world.

Wavshrdr

I hope we can keep this thread on topic. Rafael and I are trying to gauge the demand for something like this type of club before we invest a large portion of our time trying to create something that nobody is interested in.

We all agree to keep it vendor neutral. Heck I have a representative bike in my garage from most of the major players so I obviously don't have much bias with regards to my spending habits.

I hope that all vendors will be as supportive as Yan is. He never interjects himself without someone asking a specific DT question. He is one of the FEW if not the ONLY one who will willing comment on the shortcomings of his bikes. I personally like this transparency. As a result I am a very satisfied customer of Yans and other companies as well but Yans customer service is outstanding. Conversely while I love my Swift and Peter is a great guy, he is very slow in answering emails but once you get an answer it is detailed and thorough. He is just too busy to keep up with his emails which can be a pain but you can always call.

With respect to the club it will have no particular bias except to folders and travel bikes in general. Obviously we can't have detailed articles on each new folder that comes up but I hope that we can sort of be a clearing house of all (or most) folder related info without being a Brompton or DT fan club only. I hope that we can offer real benefits to many of the folder enthusiasts out there as well as get good participation from the vendors.

I personally would like to see healthy discussions about all folders. When you do to the Dahon website it is hooray Dahon, ditto for the Brompton List (or A to B magazine) but I want us to openly be able to comment on the good and bad about each marque as well as get the vendors to discuss this as well and give more insight into their designs and future plans. I would much prefer that vendors were more like Yan in that they are more open to complients AND criticism. He doesn't hide behind a desk somewhere and not participate with the real users of his product. How often do you get to deal with the head of the company of the products you buy? Your company is as only as good as your next sale or transaction. That is the reason Yan is growing rapidly as each person is treated well and not just a sales statistic. I still don't think he makes the best folders in the world but the value is tough to beat in the US. If he continues to grow, (rather you hate him or not) his presence in the marketplace will put pressure on the other companies to continue to prove and not stagnate. For that fact alone I am glad there are Downtubes even if they would not be my first choice for a folder for my purposes.

As mentioned in one of my earlier posts we plan on doing reviews of folder related or specific products. I personally have a lot of experience in lighting systems that I use on my folders and I have spent a small fortune on lights over the last year trying to find what works best in my environment. It is these types of content we would like to provide. Maybe you are interested in folder specific bags that work well and are durable. We will review these types of items as well.

What Rafael and I are looking for now is what lever of interest and what type of content you are interested in. This will also allow me to approach companies that have products YOU are interested in to possibly secure Folder Club premium members discounts for their products.

We are also interested in potential names. We could do something lie the IFC - International Folder Club or whatever people think is relevant and has an internation al flavor. We want to make sure this is not centered in just the US and address only US models and accessories. I travel a lot so I spend a lot of time in other countries and see really cool products there that aren't here and I see products here that aren't there. Rafael is working on potential graphic designs. Hopefully this will all come together over the next month or so and be live sometime in April.

oldguy52

Wav,

Oops, got so caught up in all that other stuff that I forgot to answer the original question.

Yep, I wouldn't mind throwing a few bucks your way for something similar to, for example, Bentrider.

Name??? how about

The World on 2 Wheels Assoc.
Riders and Bikes that are at home anywhere.

v1nce

Hmm, let's see what name for the Folder Site,.. how about:

'Downtube or Die!'

He he, I am kidding of course. I concur with everything you wrote Wav.

Content i'd like to see: User review possibilty with the 5 star rating system: Reviews of makes, models, service and accesories etc.

A comparison chart (like the Xootr one but only with more models and makes added) as well as a type of quick overview Swot Analysis for each make and model that is popular on these forums and more of them too.

Examples:

Weakness: Not very suited for touring due to a lack of rack braze ons, or not suited for racing due to heavy weight.

Strength: Excellent price/quality or The best folder for Touring due to custom fit and stiff durable frame.

Maybe there could even be a small 10 or 20 question survey app so that people can answer them in under 2 minutes and than instantly be told which (top3?) folders would be best suited for their needs and why.. e.g.:

Do you intend to do any touring on your folder?

(Scale of how little or much, 5 values)

Do you intend to do any multi mode commuting on your folder?

(Scale of how little or much)

Last question should be, what is your budget range.

There should be a lot of categories for this i think.

Tomaso

IFC, why not? or:

'Worldwide Folders Association' (WFA)
'Global Folding Bikers' (GFB)
'Folding-Fanatics' (Yep, stole it from our forum-member; Shameless I know, but it sounds soooo great!)

downtube

ifc.org, gfb.org, and wfa.org are taken. foldingfanatics is available for all extensions.

Thanks,
Yan

v1nce

Hey thanks for that Yan. However foldingfanatics seems way too long, i always feel a short and phonetically easy to say/hard to misspell name is always the best way to go with any URL. Especially if you do a good Google listing.

Wavshrdr

When I can check on it I will look up IFC.net or IFC.info as possibilities. FYI- I'll be travelling the next few days so I won't be able to track this thread much. Since I started it I wanted to keep up with the notes and ideas as much as possible.

juan162

How about simply: Fold!
juan162

caotropheus

"Fold" is simple and goes strait to the point

Juan, take my 0.02 cents!

14R 

I like short domains too.

www.fold.com

www.folders.com

www.foldingbikes.com

www.unfold.com (and all variables of Unfolding)