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  1. #1
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    Really short list for my 1st folder

    I love hub gears, preferrably a Nexus 8 or 7, no 5 or 3 speed.
    I want 20' wheels.
    Fenders, lights, racks and commuting built-ins are great for me and I'll pay the extra cost.

    Does this equal the Dahon Helios or it's replacement the MU XL?

    Brands other than Dahon with the above? I have found many other interesting brands but not with all the above. Don't really want to limit myself only to Dahon. Advice from the experts here is greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Member, Schmember DaFriMon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uprightbent
    I love hub gears, preferrably a Nexus 8 or 7, no 5 or 3 speed.
    I want 20' wheels.
    Fenders, lights, racks and commuting built-ins are great for me and I'll pay the extra cost.

    Does this equal the Dahon Helios or it's replacement the MU XL?

    Brands other than Dahon with the above? I have found many other interesting brands but not with all the above. Don't really want to limit myself only to Dahon. Advice from the experts here is greatly appreciated.
    You can get either a Bike Friday or a Swift, custom built with a hub gear. Bike Fridays usually have vertical dropouts, so they would probably use a chain tensioner, although they might build some frames with horizontal dropouts. Racks, lights, and fenders can be added.

    A BF will cost more than the Dahon, probably a lot more, but you get custom sizing and build. I don't know how the cost on a hub geared Swift would compare. Depends on what else you put on it.

    I'm sure the Helios XL or Mu XL are also good.
    You're right, I do have more bikes than I need.

  3. #3
    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
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    I too love hub gears and have them on several bikes. Based on my personal experience I would NOT go with any Nexus other than the 8spd. I went with it on my Swift. Better yet go with the red label version if at all possible as it is more efficient. I have one bike with the red label version and one without. I can feel the difference.

    As DaFriMon said you can customize a BF how you want and same goes for a Swift. I have several Dahons but what bothers me more about them is that their models change each year and your bike the next year becomes a throwaway and is sometimes virtually worthless as there is always something that seems to be the Bigger Better Deal in their design.

    I personally built a Swift very similar to what you are looking for. I have a hub gear, rack, lights, fenders and more. You can go here to take a look at it. In these picks I don't have the rack on it but most the other stuff is on. I add the rack when needed.

    http://69.16.211.161/showpost.php?p=2145518&postcount=1

  4. #4
    Seņor Mambo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavshrdr
    I have several Dahons but what bothers me more about them is that their models change each year and your bike the next year becomes a throwaway and is sometimes virtually worthless as there is always something that seems to be the Bigger Better Deal in their design.
    Damn.

    Many people think this, but leave it to Wav to actually write it down.

  5. #5
    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spambait11
    Damn.

    Many people think this, but leave it to Wav to actually write it down.
    What can I say, I have no sacred cows.

    That is why I have been reluectant to buy any of the new Dahons. Next year it will be something different and planned obsolescence takes about 1 year there. I am sticking with the more "classic" designs as a result. Sure I like the Mu XL but next year it will be the Tau XLT and after that the Omega "Eddie Bauer" edition. At the top of the line will be the Hon Solo Cristal Edition with Swaroski Crystals embedded in the Ti handlebars with the new micro-pitch chain going to a 21 spd planetary internal hub on run-flat Schwalbe Big Peaches. We all know that peaches are softer than apples and which would you rather date? A girl named "Peaches" or a girl named "Apples"?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Heraclitus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavshrdr
    What can I say, I have no sacred cows.

    That is why I have been reluectant to buy any of the new Dahons. Next year it will be something different and planned obsolescence takes about 1 year there. I am sticking with the more "classic" designs as a result. Sure I like the Mu XL but next year it will be the Tau XLT and after that the Omega "Eddie Bauer" edition. At the top of the line will be the Hon Solo Cristal Edition with Swaroski Crystals embedded in the Ti handlebars with the new micro-pitch chain going to a 21 spd planetary internal hub on run-flat Schwalbe Big Peaches. We all know that peaches are softer than apples and which would you rather date? A girl named "Peaches" or a girl named "Apples"?
    LOLOLOLOL!
    Nothing endures but change.

  7. #7
    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
    It's not obsolete until it no longer gets the job done.

    CE
    CE - I respectfully disagree. I also feel it is obsolete when you can no longer get replacement parts or support. Even relatively current Dahons that is close to being the case. In a business sense that is obsolete to me as I can no longer waste any more time or money on an unsupported product. If they are phasing out that model it has become obsolete as it is no longer useful to them. I do not want to be in the business of making one-off custom parts just to keep my bike going.

  8. #8
    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
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    CE- I personally think your tone is not conducive to this discussion as I never said anything was a terror and to use the world "terror" in this context truly demeans the real meaning of this word. I have traveled to a few places were you would truly understand the context of the word terror and wouldn't be so quick to use it in an off-hand manner.

    Not all parts are standardized parts on the Dahon. For example a well documented case on the Dahon forum there were no replacement parts for a Dahon (apparently specific) rear hub. He couldn't find any replacement parts at his LBS. It was a non-standard width. All they needed was a simple screw to fix it but apparently Dahon didn't have it. They ultimately ended up giving him a new hub to make it work since there were no replacement parts at all for it. Dahon did the right thing but it could have been a PITA if he was someplace other than the US trying to get this resolved.

    You may think a seatpost is minor issue but how are you going to ride your bike without one? Maybe you can find some of these parts easy but I travel more than just past a local metro stop. Hubs are often non-standard width as well. Try finding Dahon parts in a lot of Europe or other countries. Good luck! I think there is ONE Dahon dealer in the entire state where I live and many states might not even have one. So just because Dahon dealers grow on every corner where you live doesn't mean they are everywhere.

    Dahon also often uses no standard sized hubs for example. I have a Dahon at home that I can't get replacement parts for the suspension. I have bought several Dahons over the past year and now I am very careful about what models I will consider. After trying to get my rear suspension repaired while I was in Europe really brought home some issues with the bike. Even here finding the appropriate type of elastomer to try and make a repair wasn't easy. I had the issue initially in Denmark and it became progressively worse. No one had anything that I could find so I thought I'd try in Moscow which was the next leg of my trip. Finally I ended up using a piece of tire casing to make a short term fix.

    So depending on your travel habits you may want to choose carefully what bike you buy. That is what concerned me about buying a Brompton at first but I saw more Brompton dealers where I traveled in Europe than I did Dahon. Your mileage may vary of course.
    Last edited by Wavshrdr; 03-27-06 at 11:35 AM.

  9. #9
    Seņor Mambo
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    And it's not just standard parts.

    Dahon often upgrades their models with new technology - seatposts, handleposts, hinges, tubing, etc. - but they don't incorporate these improvements across the entire line. Thus only their expensive models receive these upgraded treatments while the lower priced models STILL use technology that Dahon claims they've improved upon.

    For example, if you look at the new Hon Solo (Cristal Edition with Swaroski Crystals ), you'll notice that the main frame hinge is using a "forged Lattice hinge" which makes the bike's lines flow more smoothly and is probably stronger. Yet as recently as 2005, my Boardwalk S1 still uses some big block looking hinge which is old tech. Unless I'm mistaken, the Hon Solo and Boardwalk look like the same damn frame - why not just use the new frame?

    Furthermore, my handlebars are WELDED to the handlepost, whereas most other models use the revolve stem or prolite stem. Honestly, how much more extra money would be needed to add these across the line? Since Dahon is a pretty big bike manufacturer, they don't have the excuses Brompton has for ugrading their line incrementally; they buy more in mass quantity, and they have manufacturing plants in Asia, whereas B. is trying to do everything in-house. And why don't they include magnetix clips to keep the S1 together when folded? How much more would that have cost me?

    Lastly, while I like the design changes and innovation Dahon comes up with (well, most of them anyway), I also am not a fan of their coming out with so many new (and redundant) models every year - why do you need 5 commuting models, and 6 race-oriented bikes? This kind of practice keeps costs high.

    And while I am not opposed to buying extras and add-ons when appropriate, I hate it when a manufacturer should include basic necessities (magnetix clips, for example) but doesn't, and expects you to buy them separately. In this case, it's really lame for Brompton not to include the luggage carrier block on each bike.

  10. #10
    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
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    I have never suggested not to try other bikes. I have always suggested it. Problem is how do you try one when there is NOT a LBS that carries them near you. You can't always find what you are looking for mail order either as sometimes you need to know exactly what it is called. I try and patronage my LBS because without them it sometimes could be a real PITA. Also to order stuff mail order in other countries can be quite expensive. I had to mail order something in Germany while I was there as nobody stocked the part and it cost me 17 Euro just for shipping a $5 part. That is a rip off.

    Mail order can sometimes make sense but often not. What do you do when your bike arrives damaged? You want to ship it back and forth a bunch of times until it is fixed. I have a good relationship with my LBS's and probably do 90% of my business through them and another 10% online.

    When I start spending close to $1000 and up on a folder I start to think about re-sale as well. A Dahon Boardwalk is a throw away bike. It isn't worse the hassle to re-sell it but when you lay out $800+ for a Speed TR then you start to think about it. Why buy the TR this year if next year there will be an improved model that makes yours worthless? I'll just wait until the next year instead. Well wait a minute, why not wait for the next (next) year instead?

    People on this forum (usually Americans) often forget that there are a lot of other countries represented there. Since I travel lot globally I think about how much trouble will it be to fix something if my bike breaks down in Siberia, Nice or Billings (Montana) for that matter.

    If you start looking at the Dahon line up you can see sometimes major changes within a model year on the same model. Sometimes for the worse. Perfect example is the Dahon Speed TR '05 vs. '06. While it went from a 21 spd to a 24 speed the gear gaps were widened. Not a good thing as they weren't really close to begin with but some might say that is progress but they got rid of the amazing brakes it had before for some cheap Avids. They went from a Truvativ crank to Sugino. Problem is with constant changes you have to be careful what you are getting. It appears to be a case of where Dahon went with the absolute cheapest they could find each year rather than having some consistency. I don't fault them for that but it makes it more difficult for the buyer.

    I don't mind them experimenting to some extent either but I would like to know who their are polling for some ideas or improvements. They are all over the board on where they are going. I don't see a real clear consistent vision of where they are headed. They send a lot of mixed signal.

    I will stand by my comments that most Dahons are throwaways. They have terrible re-sale unless you happen to get the one peach in the lineup for that year. I will NEVER again buy an expensive Dahon. I was lucky getting out of my last one without getting killed on it. The only way I would consider buying an over $500 Dahon is if I planned on riding it into the dust and thought I liked it enough to keep it that long. Best way to buy an expensive Dahon is used. Someone else will take the big hit on depreciation and then you can snap it up. Buy the old one just after the new models are announced.

    I like my Dahons and they generally represent a decent value as for purchase price and the content you get. Once you start to figure in TCO they don't look so attractive.

    As for the patriot comment I don't know where that came from. I am speaking about terror in the world in general. When people misuse world just for hyperbole it really weakens their true and original meaning. Maybe I have been fortunate or unfortunate to have seen some of the atrocities that people commit on each other but to ignore its existence increases the likelihood that it will sometime visit your area. Few problems remain localized in the world indefinitely. If in the balance of my life I only have to worry about the value of a Dahon relative to other marques then I will count my existence a very fortunate one. I've seen my friends die because of terrorist attacks that I almost fell victim too. It takes on an entirely different meaning when but for the delay of a taxi ride congested I could have died too.

    Anyway that is one of the reasons I prefer to use my folders rather than public transport in a lot of countries I visit. I have flexibility to avoid it or take better and less congested options if I am forced to use it.

  11. #11
    Seņor Mambo
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
    Don't have a use for the Super-mega-Solo, second edition
    ....well, DON'T BUT IT!!
    OK, I WON'T!!


    They even have one for ladies with long skirts. Strange to me? sure!
    This was a good idea, to copy the elements of the Biria. Too bad they're not selling the Ciao in the U.S. Honestly, I can see why - not a lot of "ladies" here, of course.


    Don't buy a boardwalk and expect it to ride/last/retain value like a BikeFriday.
    Don't worry; never thought this - still don't.

    I took a long time to buy a Dahon because there were too many models, and you don't know what will be obsolete the next year (you know the drill: something could be wrong with the design; someone will complain; something will be declared a lemon to be avoided at all costs - take a look at all the crap against buying a Brompton C-Type, for example; I just wanted to be sure). Thus when I got some extra cash, I tried their lowest end to test the quality and came away pleased, minus the aforementioned niggles.

    Bottom line: It's really not cool to have the feeling that a company is using you as a beta-tester without your consent.

    I still say try Dahon ... best value for the money. Especially on the lower
    price scale.

    CE
    I'd agree with that.

  12. #12
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    Wavshrdr - I have seen you over on the Dahon forums... have you raised your concerns directly there?
    In my shed: Santa Cruz Bullit and Superlight, Ritchey BreakAway

  13. #13
    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
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    I think a lot of these issues should be thought about when buying your first bike. Often since it is your first one the odds of you keeping it are pretty slim unless you really luck out or do a lot of homework. It is the reason I have drifted away from Dahons for my own personal use. My LBS that handles folders, Calhoun Cycles, has several Brommies and several Swifts in stock but only 1 Dahon. Without potentially getting anyone in trouble there my impression is there isn't that much interest in the Dahons compared to the other 2 companies. I think they even have more Airnimals in stock than Dahons and that is a very niche market. Now maybe the Midwest isn't the key market for selling Dahons but I can honestly say that in riding my folder around the Minneapolis-St. Paul area I have never ever seen another Dahon on the trails. I am sure they exist but I've never seen them. Folders here are really a "curioddity" if you know what I mean.

    As for the Dahon forum I am still there and I posted more in the past than recently. I did raise my concerns in the past. I've been vocal in asking when they will have a better competitor to the Brompton. Anyway they are not bad for an entry level bike and give a lot of bang for the buck. I just hate their churning of models. Finding something sort of cool and the next year its gone. One model that currently interests me and I think will be more important in the future is the Roo EL. Electric assisted bikes need more development and exposure.

  14. #14
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    CE - you give up too easily.

    I am constantly amazed at the hypocrisy and double standards on this site. The anti this and anti that brigade(s) in the folding community are bizarre. People complain about others not like X brand when the same people then turnaround and crticise Y brand. Truly bizarre.

    Sure its a niche we all choose to live in but we have to remember each company has its own vision and mission for how IT sees ITS future best panning out.

    The venom towards various brands here is some of the strongest I have seen in any of the forums I visit. Sure people are sarcastic and flippant on other sites but rarely as nasty and bitter as here. Very disappointing. This community is small and we all choose/chose folders for similar reasons - convenience, transport, commuting etc etc.

    It only takes a few apples to spoil it all.

    I like my Dahon for value and performance it is yet to let me down. I like the folded package of my Brompton. I also like the fact that innovation is important to some brands. Without it we would all be riding Raleigh 20s! Whenever I have suggestions I always email the company involved and 99 times out of 100 I get a response. At least my message and heard and acknowledged rather than wasting time birching on a forum where said company doesnt visit.

    Now lets all be friends and offer the OP some advice.

    OP - the Mu XL or Speed TR from Dahon would suit your needs. The Bike Friday option too would a nice choice. If possible try before you buy, visit repsective websites and company forums and ask ask ask lots of questions. Good luck.
    In my shed: Santa Cruz Bullit and Superlight, Ritchey BreakAway

  15. #15
    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWOL
    CE - you give up too easily.

    I am constantly amazed at the hypocrisy and double standards on this site. The anti this and anti that brigade(s) in the folding community are bizarre. People complain about others not like X brand when the same people then turnaround and crticise Y brand. Truly bizarre.

    Sure its a niche we all choose to live in but we have to remember each company has its own vision and mission for how IT sees ITS future best panning out.

    The venom towards various brands here is some of the strongest I have seen in any of the forums I visit. Sure people are sarcastic and flippant on other sites but rarely as nasty and bitter as here. Very disappointing. This community is small and we all choose/chose folders for similar reasons - convenience, transport, commuting etc etc.

    It only takes a few apples to spoil it all.

    I like my Dahon for value and performance it is yet to let me down. I like the folded package of my Brompton. I also like the fact that innovation is important to some brands. Without it we would all be riding Raleigh 20s! Whenever I have suggestions I always email the company involved and 99 times out of 100 I get a response. At least my message and heard and acknowledged rather than wasting time birching on a forum where said company doesnt visit.

    Now lets all be friends and offer the OP some advice.

    OP - the Mu XL or Speed TR from Dahon would suit your needs. The Bike Friday option too would a nice choice. If possible try before you buy, visit repsective websites and company forums and ask ask ask lots of questions. Good luck.
    I think some people have different perspectives of what transpires here. I think the most bitter comments I've seen have involved the input of Yan from Downtube. It is a good idea for manufacturers to stray from their forums rather than listen to a bunch of sycophants simply raving about their products. Engineering should not take place in a vacuum. You can often learn more from the people that don't like your products than from the people that are die hard fanatics. I am a fanactic about folders but of no one company in particular. Open discourse about all things good and bad is useful. If you want to hear mostly the good about most companies go to their sponsored websites and you have your fill. I want to hear both the good and the bad.

    There has been quite a bit input on bike choices. If the OP wants hub gears with 7 or 8 speeds there are very few choices. As I mentioned before Bike Friday and Swift. Dahon Mu XL isn't widely available and I only know of 1 person who even has one and it was basically a pre-production model he got when his Helios XL frame failed. Dahon did him a favor. So if the OP wants something now with hub gears and more than a few speeds it is basically a Swift of Bike Friday if you live in the US. If you want to spend $$$ you could buy a Birdy with a Rohloff. You could of course import some other bikes.

  16. #16
    Seņor Mambo
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWOL
    I am constantly amazed at the hypocrisy and double standards on this site. The anti this and anti that brigade(s) in the folding community are bizarre. People complain about others not like X brand when the same people then turnaround and crticise Y brand. Truly bizarre.
    It has to do with the fact that no one company has satisfied all needs (apparently and understandably).
    It has to do with the fact that some are not shy about pointing out each bike's shortcomings.
    It has to do with the fact that most noobs don't bother searching this forum for the same info just posted days or hours before.
    It has to do with the fact that people have had time on their machines and can now give even more info about the bikes they didn't know before.
    It has to do with the fact that it's frivolous to say "all the bikes are good. Can't go wrong with any one of them." How does that help you?
    It has to do with the fact that there are dealers participating with very real monetary interests.
    It has to do with the fact that fake identities are created to pump up certain brands when many of us can see BS when we read it.
    It has to do with the fact that we can all hide behind our monitors and no one can do a damn thing about it.
    It has to do with the fact that some people actually know what they're talking about.

    At least these are my conjectures; grain of salt adage should always apply. This is, after all, the internet.

  17. #17
    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spambait11
    It has to do with the fact that no one company has satisfied all needs (apparently and understandably).
    It has to do with the fact that some are not shy about pointing out each bike's shortcomings.
    It has to do with the fact that most noobs don't bother searching this forum for the same info just posted days or hours before.
    It has to do with the fact that people have had time on their machines and can now give even more info about the bikes they didn't know before.
    It has to do with the fact that it's frivolous to say "all the bikes are good. Can't go wrong with any one of them." How does that help you?
    It has to do with the fact that there are dealers participating with very real monetary interests.
    It has to do with the fact that fake identities are created to pump up certain brands when many of us can see BS when we read it.
    It has to do with the fact that we can all hide behind our monitors and no one can do a damn thing about it.
    It has to do with the fact that some people actually know what they're talking about.

    At least these are my conjectures; grain of salt adage should always apply. This is, after all, the internet.
    Well said!

    If it wasn't for this forum I probably wouldn't have bought my Swift. I read for many hours doing research and getting opinions from here and seeing what were common themes before I ever set foot in the LBS. It helped open my eyes to more of what is available out there and why some of the differences might be important for my usage.

    I like reading well stated differences of opinions. It helps me better understand what is important to me or not. I hope that my experience can help others with their choices. I enjoy the critical thinking that others employ that goes beyond just saying it is good. I want to know WHY it is good so if I ever find myself in that situation I will already have a better understanding of what might work for me.

    Obviously we all come from different backgrounds, countries and bicycle and life experiences. We have varying levels of what we are willing to spend on a folder and why we want/need that particular bike. I have had numerous off-forum discussions with people and it really helps to fill out the details of where a particular person is coming from. The more I meet with and build relationships with these members the more I tend to try and view bikes and products through their eyes.

    Just like a Brompton isn't the ideal folder where I live but it can be really useful in NYC or London. You might love a Bike Friday but don't like breaking it down to transport. It is all these different bikes and situations that make this such an interesting hobby/lifestyle. For me it started out as more of a hobby than a necessity and over time it has become a conscious choice of how I live a part of my life. I park farther from work and save on parking. I then ride my bike more or I ride to the bus stop and then take the bus as far as I can and then switch back to the bike. A few years ago this wasn't a viable option for me but I specifically searched for a job opportunity that would allow me this flexibility. It has been these types of forums that have been instrumental in helping me define my folder needs and then source the appropriate steed.

    So even though the "What bike should I buy" question comes up repeatedly it is still helpful for us as a group to help the newbies. Without their new blood the sport will stagnate. So even though we have heard the same (almost) question 10, 50, 300 times it is still important to take the time to answer it even if it does sometimes drift off-topic as so many threads do.

    Folders are not a real modular type design for the most part. You can just take drive train A and slap it on frame B combined with saddle and post from C. Aside from a Swift or Bike Friday you have to find specific parts so unless you get very close to what you want from the start your options to custom tailor the bike later aren't as broad and often go beyond the scope of what a newbie is willing to dive into. So it is important that we all help or the sport will die out.

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    Whoa. This is a helluva thread. The one I started, similar subject (I'm looking for a first bike, pref. hub, multiple gears,) has been far more genial in tone, I'd say. And a lot of you have responded to me in that thread. In any case, I've learned quite a bit reading all this. Sort of. Now I'm not at all sure about Dahon. Yikes. This is all so confusing for us newbies! Or me, anyway. As for the lack of "ladies" in the US. Hey -- I'm a lady! And I like that girly-bike! I hope it doesn't suffer from all the faults that have been described above.

  19. #19
    Seņor Mambo
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    Hey, I like that girly-bike too, that's why I was disappointed that Dahon wasn't selling it in the U.S.: it's as if they're telling us there is no market for it here in the States. What's really cool is that front wicker basket attachment; I think my wife would have really liked something like that. I was also thinking of a BionX system to fit it. Oh well. Hopefully the European and Asian markets will do a good job of beta-testing that model before it hits the States. It's already the "Bike of the Year for 2006" and we're still in March. Incredible!

    And damn you Wav! I've had my eye on the Roo EL as well. Just when everyone said they improved the power and battery performance - poof! - out of the U.S. market. You bought all of them didn't you? I know you intend to resell them here as WavRooEls! Come clean!

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    Quote Originally Posted by uprightbent
    I love hub gears, preferrably a Nexus 8 or 7, no 5 or 3 speed.
    I want 20' wheels.
    Fenders, lights, racks and commuting built-ins are great for me and I'll pay the extra cost.

    Does this equal the Dahon Helios or it's replacement the MU XL?

    Brands other than Dahon with the above? I have found many other interesting brands but not with all the above. Don't really want to limit myself only to Dahon. Advice from the experts here is greatly appreciated.
    Certainly your wants could equal the Dahon MU XL, and that might be a very fine choice ... but you are not necessarily limited to a production model.. you could do as I did and install a rear hub wheel inplace of a derailleur wheel... I like the Nexus RedBand 8spd hub a lot and installed it on my sub $200 Downtube FS (horizontal drops) as well as on an 05 Dahon Jetstream XP (vertical drops)... both bikes get a lot of use and basically have been trouble free. On the Downtube, the wheel cost more than the bike, but the total package was still way less than $500 and I now have a comfortable, fully suspended folder that I can take on a variety of nasty roads utilizing a current, highend, efficient drivetrain.... so, your options are many depending on the frame style, fully suspended, non suspended, folding ease, etc.

    My first priority in a folder is ride quality... for most of my riding on paths and trails, the fully suspended Downtube is an easy choice, it is the most stable and confidence instilling of any of my folders (8 of 'em) and the heaviest ... If I'm on decent pavement, my first choice is my racy 9spd derailleur Swift, it's handling is superb and a cut above every other folder I've ridden ... if I plan on any dual mode or long range use, I would grab the XP as it is set up to be excellent on pavement but would do fine on most trails I ride... so, if you want a production 8spd hub gear 20" folder in the US, your choices are few, but custom options are available and not always as costly as you might think.

    Bruce

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    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
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    spambait11- I do want a Roo EL. I think they are pretty cool. I guess I will just have to settle for a Bion-X Swift or maybe Birdy (but the 18" wheels would kill me with no tire choices). I thought like you did about the Roo. Finally good batts, improved range and BAM!!! Its gone. This is the stuff that just kills me about Dahon. I'll have to see what I can do about importing one. Everytime I heard the name I cracked up though. I couldn't figure if it was related to kangaroo or it was a relative of Superman. Was Roo El related to Jor-El or Kal-El?

    I wouldn't mind have a Ciao either. Could have been a cool bike to invite a girl out on a date too. Something about a girl riding a bike in a skirt that reminds me of when I was living in Europe and dating this hot Austrian mädchen. She had a stepover bike with a wicker basket. Anyway I digrress. It would be great for inexperienced riders too with that easy step over. Ditto for the seasoned citizens that are quite so flexible. I love hub dynamos for lights.

    OP the Ciao could be a cool bike if available in the US.

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    Well Excuse Me! (Like John Belushi said it)

    Quote Originally Posted by spambait11
    It has to do with the fact that most noobs don't bother searching this forum for the same info just posted days or hours before.
    It has to do with the fact that we can all hide behind our monitors and no one can do a damn thing about it.
    I'm so sorry. Before my next post to I'll scroll thru 9 million pages of research to prevent this dreaded redundancy. I expected friendly advice and got some. But all this absolute BS about tone and what not.
    Class-let's stay on topic next time. And I thought the roadie forum was hardcore.

  23. #23
    Seņor Mambo
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    Quote Originally Posted by uprightbent
    I'm so sorry. Before my next post to I'll scroll thru 9 million pages of research to prevent this dreaded redundancy.
    Wouldn't hurt to read a couple.


    I expected friendly advice and got some. But all this absolute BS about tone and what not.
    Don't trip. It's only a folding bike.

    But if you care to read, here's an issue:

    Wav mentioned at one time that the Mu is not yet widely available, and that some guy on the Dahon forums has a Mu prototype because Dahon was making it up to him for something(?). Don't know if the info is accurate or not, but searching the Dahon forums, the guy used to own a Helios and shows a pic of a crack in the aluminum around the base of his seat tube which he says isn't good, but which hasn't spread either. He only shows this pic because the original poster of that thread started the thread asking if other owners experienced similar cracks in a similar area.
    Last edited by spambait11; 03-28-06 at 03:20 PM.

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    Spambait, as a newbie in here, I can offer the following:

    I AM taking the time to read through the backlog of posts in this forum, and am a bike-newbie, not just a folding-bike-newbie. I've ridden bikes since childhood, but only recently got interested in the mechanics of them, maintaining and upgrading my own machines. Previously, the most I'd done on a bike is change a flat tire tube.

    I definitely can understand that some forum regulars would get tired of folks like me, who pop in and ask newbie-type questions that have been asked plenty of times before. As I'm going through the past pages, I've found a fair amount of threads started with a single post, several helpful give-us-more-info-but-this-may-help replies, and then nothing else from the original poster; who seemingly either forgot that they'd posted a question on this forum or didn't see fit to respond back and let people know that they'd solved the problem, and by-the-way thanks for the help.

    Also: No one in here has any real obligation to constantly steer the newbies in the right direction, or to be ambassadors of goodwill for folding bikes in general. But it sure doesn't hurt; also, if you don't feel like lending a helping hand when people ask annoyingly simple/obvious/duplicate questions, perhaps it would be better to just not respond? Some people ARE doing just what you're suggesting; reading up in this forum and other places online before making a decision, and when they come across a quote like this:
    It has to do with the fact that most noobs don't bother searching this forum for the same info just posted days or hours before.
    It's going to put them off asking any questions at all, or chiming in with photos/reviews/opinions of their own folding acquisitions, or even registering. Spambait, you're not incorrect in what you posted, but it'd be a shame to see this group get a reputation as elitist or insular.

    Does anyone think it'd be a good idea to create a couple of general-purpose threads for this forum? I think two that'd be great would be a FAQ thread about folders, and another that lists currently-available brands of folders, maybe with links to reviews (preferably reviews by actual forum members who own them, rather than 3rd-party sites... the idea would be that the forum members could be contacted/PM'd for more information). If the mods like them, they could sticky them at the top of the forum.... at the very least, we could divert "newbies" to those threads when they come in with questions that have been answered already.

    I think that folding bicycles are really neat; I'm fascinated by the utility of them, and I hadn't been aware of them at all until very recently. I think that if this forum is to serve its purpose best (I'm assuming that the purpose is to enable the free exchange of information on the subject), it will always involve some re-directing of the newcomers.
    Last edited by bookishboy; 03-28-06 at 04:26 PM.

  25. #25
    Seņor Mambo
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    Hi bookishboy,

    Spambait, you're not incorrect in what you posted, but it'd be a shame to see this group get a reputation as elitist or insular.
    In this thread, someone had an opinion that I happened to agree with. Then I specifically got called out. I have no problem backing up what I write, otherwise I wouldn't have written it. In most cases, I do follow your advice: "if you don't feel like lending a helping hand when people ask annoyingly simple/obvious/duplicate questions, perhaps it would be better to just not respond?"

    So I'll answer shortly: accusations - whether true or not - of not searching older posts thoroughly is not an isolated complaint in any forum, and the response "Give newbies a break" is equally timeworn. The issue will never go away, and it's just a peeve, nothing more, and not advocation for any type of elitism.
    Last edited by spambait11; 03-28-06 at 06:37 PM.

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