invisiblehand

Actually, they are not so new. They have been in Asia for a bit. They look neat. One is designed as a tourer with a triple crank and another as a sport bike with a double. The sport bike appears to have a rear suspension.

I am a bit annoyed by the company. I sent them an e-mail a few months ago asking whether they intended to import them to the US and they replied no.

https://www.khsbicycles.com/10_folding_06.htm

Rincewind8

The one with the triple front (KF-20) is not that much of a folding bike, is it? I think you can only fold the steerer tube, not the frame.
The sporty one (F-20r) is SWEEEEET! Now, if I only had $1000 to spare...

invisiblehand

Jeez, I did not notice that. With the hi-ten steel frame it weighs 33 pounds ... including the trunk bag.

randya

There's a sweet little Stingray copy w/ springer fork on that page, too!

james_swift

The F-20R in a single-speed/fixed config would be rad.

Fear&Trembling

I would like to see what size the F-20R folds down to. It looks good and is begging to be modified. If only they sold them in the UK...

LittlePixel

...if it had better paint; Stealth black or silver please!

jcl

You know, it's funny, before I was even shopping for a folder I saw these KHS folders when I was in Tokyo for a few days. Then, a year later, back in the US and shopping for a bike, I remembered them and tried to find them here, but had no luck. I ended up with a custom Swift from Peter Reich, and I couldn't be happier, but the KHS F-20-style has always stuck in my brain. I think it is very cool that they are finally here.

Very fortunately for me, the US KHS headquarters is close to my home, and one of their Customer Service reps, Gene, has arranged a test ride for me. None of the local KHS dealers here in LA stock the F-20R yet, so Gene was kind enough to indulge my obsessive bike-geekness. I hope to get a few pics and post some impressions of the bike after the ride.

invisiblehand

Looking forward to those impressions JCL.

jcl

Well, I took the F20-R for a very good test ride today down at the beach - probably 10 miles or so - and I was very impressed. Before I go further, let me state that the test-bike that was provided to me courtesy of KHS and Bike Attack in Santa Monica was a prototype that is not for sale. It was fitted with Shimano 105 shifters and a 105 rear derailleur, along with 170mm FSA cranks. The actual bikes that ship to stores will be all Tiagra with different cranks.

The F20 feels really light when you pick it up. I could not believe it was a chromoly frame! I owned a 2005 Dahon Speed P8 for a few months, and the weight difference between the two is amazing. It is certainly lighter than my aluminum Swift, but as the Swift has a DualDrive hub, it is probably not a fair comparison.

The F20 rides like a dream. The drivetrain was very smooth, very quiet, and shifting through the 18 gears presented no problem. I took it over several bumps and a few modest potholes with no chaindrops. (This was a continual problem for with the Dahon Speed P8). The Soft-Tail rear suspension was actually something I did not "feel" much during the ride. Apparently it is non-adjustable, and only activates when you hit the really big bumps.

The bullhorn-style handlebars are really cool, and I love having the brakes and the shifters right under the hands when stretched out. I am not a huge fan of the Shimano brifters... Campy fits my smaller hands better, but with this bullhorn bar setup, the hoods never actually come into play. Your hands rest comfortably on the ends of the bars rather than on the hoods. I'm probably stating the obvious here, but it seemed like such a revelation to me while I was riding. It is a really nice setup, aerodynamic and comfortable.

The saddle that comes with the bike seemed very well-made, and very lightweight. I had a heck of a time adjusting it, though, because the seatpost had kind of an odd rail attachment thing. Fore and aft adjustments were simple, but getting any kind of up or down tilt was truly aggravating.

Aside from the drivetrain, most of the parts on the F20-R are stamped "Powertools". The mechanic that tuned the bike before I rode it said that everything on the bike is standard, there are no weird, proprietary parts to hunt down when something goes wrong. The Powertools brakes worked really well for me, with ample stopping power combined with enough play that felt very similar to the Shimano Deore LX brakes on my Swift.

The reach from seatpost to center of handlebars was just over 24 inches. This was with a 60mm stem and the seatpost height set for my 30 inch inseam. I have to say, that at 5'4", this bike's setup with the bullhorn bars was a little long for me, although there were multiple positions on the bars that I found comfortable.

Now to the fold. The fold on this bike is okay, but not great. The main release latch works smoothly, and clicks positively back into place once you unfold the bike, but in general, the fold leaves something to be desired. The handlebars pop off the frame easily enough, but once you get the bike folded in half those bullhorn bars seem to take on a mind of their own, with all that extra cable threatening to surround you. The seatpost does not appear to go all the way through the frame at the bottom, so, once folded, the bike rests on the large chainwheel and chain. Somehow, that does not seem right to me. But if you go to the KHS Japan site, there is a picture of a bike very similar to the F-20, folded up and apparently resting on its chainwheel.

Additionally, once you unfold the bike and try to re-position the handlebars on the steerer tube (terminology?!) there is no guide for re-centering the handlebars like you find on Dahons and Swifts, on the F-20 you simply eyeball it, then adjust, then adjust again.

I am sure that over time, folding and unfolding the F-20 would become no big deal. But it is certainly a little unwieldy at first. I would say the fold is more utilitarian than it is elegant, fast but also a bit messy.

But again, this is a very fast, smooth-running, lightweight, solid-feeling bike. In terms of ride quality, I like it almost as much as my Swift.

I've attempted to attach some pictures I took today - hope it works.

dalmore

Thanks for the thorough review and photo pack!

procon

Yes, great report. The frame and fast geometry looks great but I'm not excited about the Tiagra components

Fear&Trembling

Thanks jcl for the informative first impressions and great pictures.

Bullhorns or drops always make for a messier fold and larger folded dimensions. As you also have to remove them, it also slows the process down. If the bike rests on the chainring when folded this does not sound very encouraging.

Good to hear that the ride is so assured and that the bike is light. It is also rare to see a double chainset on a folder – top-end range will still be around 90 or so inches though.

I would want to know what weight and/or height restrictions KHS are putting on these models - I recall swingeing limitations on Japanese versions. If they are similarly restrictive, I would not be suited to the F20-R…

jcl

Yes, regarding the bullhorn bars and the fold, you are absolutely correct, without a doubt it complicates things. And the KHS bullhorn bars are rather aggressively-sized for the folder world. Good for actual riding, though. Also, the cabling on the prototype that I tested seemed rather excessive - I don't know if you can tell from the pictures I posted - but all that extra cable also hampered the fold of the bike.

I'm glad you guys are finding the review helpful, I'm happy to contribute to the Folding Bikes board!

invisiblehand

In reference to JCL's comment regarding the folded bike resting on the crank. Here is the KHS Japan picture. Although it looks like the version pictured is aluminum not chromoly (7005 alloy). So am I to understand that the seatpost does not slide through the bottom of the seattube to form a base? The seatpost is supposed to be ~50cm long according to https://translate.google.com/translat...en-US:official.

https://translate.google.com/translat...en-US:official

jcl

Invisiblehand,
The seatpost on the bike I tested did not appear to go all the way down thru the frame to form a base. Perhaps it was just a tight fit... but the picture from the web page does not look promising.

As for the F20 frame, it was stamped chromoly, but one of the guys at the LBS said that it was a new alloy that had recently come into use. I was amazed at the weight of the bike! The KHS website states the weight as 25.4 lbs., but it felt lighter.

I'm attaching a pic of the stamp on the frame:

bangkok

The 3 KHS '06 JP models I spot are:

+ F20-RAC, 7005 alu frame w carbon fork n chainstay, many 105 components, 20 speed, 9.5 kg, about $1700
+ F20-RA, 6061 alu w carbon fork n Reynolds 500 rear triangle, many Tiagra components, 20 speed, 10.5kg, about $1200
+ F20-R, all Reynolds 500 w alu fork, many Tiagra components, 18 speed, 11.5kg, about $850 ... likely the model tested

Frame design runs seat tube to BB; so extension of seatpost as folded rest point. It's going to sit on the chainring when folded; so best option is a chainring cover.

Fear&Trembling

Max rider weight seems to be around 80kg (176lbs) for a lot of the F-20 range. Clearly these models were aimed at the Far East market and I do not know if KHS have changed the geometry or specs for the US…

I did email KHS about this a year or so ago, but they did not reply. I re-emailed them last week and am awaiting a response

14R 

The interesting thing about the non folding yellow frame is that is a very strong candidate for SS couplings conversion...