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Old 12-17-06, 03:08 AM   #1
matt52
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451 rims/wheels

I think the next big job on the Raleigh Stowaway I just bought is going to be new wheels. Rather than following the easy route and buying some 406s I'd much rather keep the skinny 451 look. Does anyone have any good leads for getting hold of 451 rims in the UK? Internet searches are not proving fruitful.
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Old 12-17-06, 04:06 AM   #2
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You will probably find it difficult to get hold of new 451s in the UK. St John Street Cycles may be able to order some in though.
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Old 12-17-06, 01:43 PM   #3
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Hi Matt52, You could try Avon Valley Cyclery of Bristol, at: http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk/bf_tyres.htm

They do 451mm tyres for the Bike Friday range, so they may be able to get some rims to match?
It's worth a try...
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Old 12-18-06, 12:52 AM   #4
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Hello Fellas

If you find a source of 451 mm rims in Europe or the UK, please let me know. So far I found 451 mm rims in Gaerlan but the shipment is a bit expensive.
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Old 12-18-06, 01:11 AM   #5
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Have you guys tried recumbent shops or recumbent specialists?
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Old 12-18-06, 08:57 AM   #6
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Hardly anyone uses the 451 size anymore (which is strange given the popularity of this size a few decades back in the UK) and only a few Bike Fridays and hardcore HPVA guys seem to use them. Most recumbents and trikes are using either 349, 355 or 406s.

Matt52, if AVC are wheelbuilding and selling in the 451 size, I would like to know...
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Old 12-18-06, 11:32 AM   #7
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I too would appreciate any UK / EU 451 leads!
You could try cross posting this in the Recumbent forum too. It's easy to talk of 'recumbent specialist stores' but they are very hard to find. I think they must live underground or something
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Old 12-18-06, 11:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spambait11
Have you guys tried recumbent shops or recumbent specialists?
Good call - just bought this for £20 from recumbantbikeshop.co.uk - 32-hole hub; radially-spoked using 14g stainless steel spokes; Alexa 451mm alloy rim which should do the job for my front wheel.

Got to pop out and check on the number of spokes holes on rear SA AW hub - I suspect 28. Which may make for a longer search for that 28 hole rim...
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Old 12-18-06, 11:47 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by matt52
Good call - just bought this for £20 from recumbantbikeshop.co.uk - 32-hole hub; radially-spoked using 14g stainless steel spokes; Alexa 451mm alloy rim which should do the job for my front wheel.
Nice information Matt, the question is hwo wide is the rim? Can I toss a 451 x 1 on this rim?

And where is Vince? Certainly some Dutch business have rims, wheels, tubes and tires 451.
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Old 12-18-06, 01:09 PM   #10
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They're probably Alex DA22 rims, which look nice at 22mm. Narrowest you can get on Gaerlan for skinny slick fun is the Sun M13. That's what I'd get for my twenty. Looks like I may be going back to 451s at some point. I have just won an auction for some Pashley Trike forks which I think may be 451 sized. Either way - I'll be ditching some weight when the cheapo suspention forks come off yay!

(EDIT)
Did anyone else know that Amazon.com of all people are now selling bike components including 20" rims. I wonder if they'll ship to the uk?
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Old 12-18-06, 02:04 PM   #11
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Through Amazon I got to this shop, that yes ships overseas.

So I got smarter and started locking around for specific models of rims, and I found them at several shops.

Another shop the for sure ships overseas

Last edited by caotropheus; 12-18-06 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 12-18-06, 03:07 PM   #12
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Wow AEBike appear to only charge $17 shipping to the UK. Given current exchange rate (and assuming no horrific duty whack on top, it works out at only £25 a rim - thats not a bad deal. Any views on whether to get the Answer or the Sun Ringle rim for a back wheel?

Oooh and he's got one of these at a decent price. Is this going to be fixable onto the twenty? Presumeably only if i can find a steering tube that fits (and will it work with 451 wheels?)....Time for a parcel from stateside I think.

Last edited by matt52; 12-18-06 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 12-18-06, 04:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt52
Wow AEBike appear to only charge $17 shipping to the UK. Given current exchange rate (and assuming no horrific duty whack on top, it works out at only £25 a rim - thats not a bad deal. Any views on whether to get the Answer or the Sun Ringle rim for a back wheel?

Oooh and he's got one of these at a decent price. Is this going to be fixable onto the twenty? Presumeably only if i can find a steering tube that fits (and will it work with 451 wheels?)....Time for a parcel from stateside I think.
I have been buying from them shipping to Australia. I also bought one of those forks... not yet installed, but I know I won't have a problem. Am waiting for mini V-brakes to arrive for installation.
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Old 12-18-06, 08:19 PM   #14
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Matt52 - I'd go for the rim that has the right drilling for the hubs you want. Aero profile is nice but not essential. As for the forks - they'll fit - I'd guess you need to source some 1" tube and get it threaded to the TPI of your headset. Seems like the most sensible way to sell forks to me. As for whether they'll fit 451s - hrm. Not so likely. I think the Twenties I've seen with RST forks have all been rolling on 406s so even if they do just sneak in there - any brakes you fit to the v-brake bosses will have you stopping by sytematically removing spokes rather than by friction on the sidewall

I pick up a Pashley Picador Trike tomorrow (Think R20 geometry but with three wheels) for my Mum. They're normally very expensive but this one is in need of some TLC - gotta love ebay. Bargains and winter projects to boot!
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Old 12-19-06, 06:00 AM   #15
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Now that we 451 maniacs have several sources for rims, why the appeal on the 451 size for folding bicycles?
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Old 12-19-06, 06:31 AM   #16
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451 rim suppliers in the uk

I have found a couple of places that stock 451 rims. I found this first address on a bike forums thread about twenties from a guy called chambo:

C M Grange tel:01279 758718 this is a wheel builder who can supply wheel chair rims in 451, either 28 or 36 hole. They are something like £11 each plus postage and he is also in the process of having cotterless axles for twenty/moulton mark 3 b/b's made up. Not on the internet, telephone only.

Custom riders internet BMX shop do 451 rims in 1 1/8th sizes though they are pricey at about £30 plus post each. Similarly Alan's BMX on the net do 1 1/8th rims for about 25 quid each plus postage.

Did anyone know that Tioga makers of the lovely comp pool 406 tyre also do 451 versions of their racing BMX tyres?- these are called comp pool 3's and I think compX ie old school mountain bike pattern. Alan's BMX do these as do Wiggle. I am in the process of building an offroading folding twenty(!) and discovered this just a little to late.
Doug
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Old 12-19-06, 02:32 PM   #17
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Who'd have guessed quite so many 451 fans around. I've just bought a 28 hole Sun ICl-1 rim for my SA hub, and also a 36 hole version in case i decide to upgrade to a more modern SRAM s7 or SA 8 speed hub. Total cost including shipping was just over $80 (though bracing myself for the £30 handling fee I'll probably get charged by the carrier if HMRC decide to charge me the £7 VAT and any duty on import...).

Anyone know any good wheelbuilders in north London. The wheel build on the 28 hole SA hub will have to be good - not many spokes for the back wheel of a heavy bike....
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Old 12-19-06, 04:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt52
The wheel build on the 28 hole SA hub will have to be good - not many spokes for the back wheel of a heavy bike....
I have a Schwinn Stardust w/ a 28-hole SA AW hub mounted on a 451 rim. I break spokes all the time. I am thinking of rebuilding with a 32-hole hub.
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Old 12-19-06, 05:10 PM   #19
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Spoke to Roy Pink cycles today about getting the wheel built - mainly because an internet search kicked up their name as a place that is pretty decent at working with older bikes. Roy said that you need to get a 28 spoke SA hubbed wheel exactly right or else spokes will get trashed very quickly, that it was "a complete sod of a job compared to building most wheels" but if built properly by someone who knows what they are doing, they should last pretty well. Erm here's hoping...
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Old 12-19-06, 05:21 PM   #20
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I'd love to say "i'll build your wheels!" being only down the road in crouch end - but I'm kinda new to it and don't think I could offer such a great service as the fella you've found. Maybe go for a ride sometime when it's finished.

++Off+topic++
Just got the trike back home this evening after a 6-hours-to-go-120-miles-because-of-fog-and-traffic-trip to kent and it's definitely all 451'd up. I think I'll need a new rim for one wheel at the back so I may swap out the ok front one to the rear so they match and get a new one up front. And now I can with all these excellent links. Up until a couple of days ago I'd kinda given up on sourcing 451s ($%!s) in the UK. My forks also came today so will be looking at getting the twenty some bigger skinnier boots in the spring. Yay!
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Old 12-19-06, 10:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt52
Who'd have guessed quite so many 451 fans around. I've just bought a 28 hole Sun ICl-1 rim for my SA hub, and also a 36 hole version in case i decide to upgrade to a more modern SRAM s7 or SA 8 speed hub. Total cost including shipping was just over $80 (though bracing myself for the £30 handling fee I'll probably get charged by the carrier if HMRC decide to charge me the £7 VAT and any duty on import...).

Anyone know any good wheelbuilders in north London. The wheel build on the 28 hole SA hub will have to be good - not many spokes for the back wheel of a heavy bike....
This might help

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/mismatch/index.htm
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Old 12-20-06, 12:04 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt52
Spoke to Roy Pink cycles today about getting the wheel built - mainly because an internet search kicked up their name as a place that is pretty decent at working with older bikes. Roy said that you need to get a 28 spoke SA hubbed wheel exactly right or else spokes will get trashed very quickly, that it was "a complete sod of a job compared to building most wheels" but if built properly by someone who knows what they are doing, they should last pretty well. Erm here's hoping...
I had no idea. I just went ahead and built the original 28H hub into some very nice rims I found. Been commuting now for several months on it, no broken spokes yet.

*searches for nearest bit of wood to knock on, finds none, knocks cranium *
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Old 12-20-06, 03:42 PM   #23
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So I've now found the wheels on the trike are not 451 but the even rarer 440 (500A) size. I can find tyres no bother (St John Street Cycles coming up trumps again - but rims - don't even get me started!

I only need one (a rear that's buckled beyond what can reasonably be done by truing) but can I find anyone IN THE WORLD that has them? Nope. I've mailed Pashley but don't expect a reply too quickly because of the upcoming break for christmas. Anyone dealt with sourcing that size before?
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Old 12-20-06, 03:45 PM   #24
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^^This is the second oddball wheel/tire size question I've seen today.

See here also: Folding Peugeot tire help

Last edited by randya; 12-20-06 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 12-20-06, 04:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
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So I've now found the wheels on the trike are not 451 but the even rarer 440 (500A) size. I can find tyres no bother (St John Street Cycles coming up trumps again - but rims - don't even get me started!

I only need one (a rear that's buckled beyond what can reasonably be done by truing) but can I find anyone IN THE WORLD that has them? Nope. I've mailed Pashley but don't expect a reply too quickly because of the upcoming break for christmas. Anyone dealt with sourcing that size before?
The APB Moulton/Pashley bikes produced in the mid-1990s were produced with 500A rims according to http://www.moultoneers.net/moultapb.html. The (very -1999...) out of date contacts section of the site lists "Moulton Recycling - Clive Fletcher, 11 Buckland Lane, Maidstone, Kent ME16 OBJ. Tel: 01622 678011" as a resource for hard to find Moulton parts - you might want to give the number a call to see whether he still does this, or knows other Moulton-fanatic contacts who might be able to help. But Pashley must have a few old rims in the back of the factory - they didn't stop making APBs that long ago.
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