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  1. #51
    Life in Mono
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    Hi Guys no slating the product here - I'm a potential customer ! I am sure the joints will be strong enough. I just want to see how they actually work - the video just seems a little too slick to be real ! I want to see a an honest close up picture, and ideally slow-mo of the action. FWIW the nearest I've seen to automatic joints are those on the mezzo (uk based brompton alternative) , but even these can be seen to snap together.

    Pixel - you cycnic - but you are probably true about UK pricing, by the time it gets here it could be upto £1200 (ie $2400 usd !!) ... unless personally collected.

  2. #52
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    OK, I'm going to potentially slag the new bike.

    Can anyone tell if the Tikit is likely to throw the derailleur out of alignment when it folds, as apparently happens to other BF's? OziSwift described the problem in detail in this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by OziSwift (in the Swift thread)
    The Bike Friday’s pivot point is behind the bottom bracket so two things happen.

    (1) The distance between the crank set and rear hub changes as you fold the bike. It gets shorter so the chain tends to drop off unless the derailleur can “eat” the slack.
    (2) The front derailleur doesn’t move so the chain tends to catch the bottom of the front derailleur cage and pull it out of place.

    This is exacerbated because the pivot is also angled so the rear triangle/rear wheel folds up to one side of the top tube. This causes the chain to exert a sideways force on the cogs, cranks and derailleurs unless you’re very very careful about the set up before the fold. The perfect chain line in the unfolded position is angled in the folded position. The front derailleur is often the most affected – and the chain tends to fall off the chain rings as well.
    I can't tell from the vids if the Tikit is likely to suffer from the same problem.

  3. #53
    darling no baka landstander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe
    OK, I'm going to potentially slag the new bike.

    Can anyone tell if the Tikit is likely to throw the derailleur out of alignment when it folds, as apparently happens to other BF's?
    According to an early posting from Walter on the BF-Yak list, the tikit will not have this problem. Unfortunately, I didn't save a copy of the relevant message... it was shortly before X-mas, IIRC, if you care to check the list archives.
    Dragon... ATTACK!

  4. #54
    Senior Member LCI_Brian's Avatar
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    I've been looking on the BF website and see references to an "easy pack" mast. I take it this is different than the Tikit? I couldn't find anything on the "easy pack" mast on the website.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Speedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe
    OK, I'm going to potentially slag the new bike.

    Can anyone tell if the Tikit is likely to throw the derailleur out of alignment when it folds, as apparently happens to other BF's? OziSwift described the problem in detail in this post:

    I can't tell from the vids if the Tikit is likely to suffer from the same problem.
    I'm a little puzzled. OziSwift's post was the first I'd heard of this problem as well. When I look at any of the BF folding videos they don't seem to be having a problem with the derailleur going out of alignment. How much of a "problem" is this problem? Is it every time you fold? Only when you pack? If you fold quickly and not carefully?

  6. #56
    Señor Mambo
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCI_Brian
    I've been looking on the BF website and see references to an "easy pack" mast. I take it this is different than the Tikit? I couldn't find anything on the "easy pack" mast on the website.
    I think this refers to their new seat masts which pull out instead of fold down.

  7. #57
    Señor Mambo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo
    I'm a little puzzled. OziSwift's post was the first I'd heard of this problem as well. When I look at any of the BF folding videos they don't seem to be having a problem with the derailleur going out of alignment. How much of a "problem" is this problem? Is it every time you fold? Only when you pack? If you fold quickly and not carefully?
    Standard BF rear triangles fold independent of the bottom bracket, that's why you can't turn them easily into fixed gears because of the needed chain stretch to fold. Because the rear triangle also folds at an angle (to the left), it's best to keep the chain on the smallest - that is, outermost - cog, when folding. Ozi also uses a front derailleur which I can see getting out of whack because of the severe fold angle (i.e. the chain pulling the front derailleur to the right because of the fold). Maybe that's why many BF owners don't use front derailleurs; but I agree with that Ozi that this is a design limitation and has nothing to do with components.

    Birdy has a similar problem; in fact, the Birdy manual suggests that to fold the bike, you should first put the bike in its highest gear because it also folds to the right.

    For the tikit, it seems that the rear triangle and bottom bracket fold in unison (like the Swift) thus avoiding chain line issues altogether.
    Last edited by spambait11; 01-26-07 at 02:40 PM.

  8. #58
    Car free since 1995 pm124's Avatar
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    The Birdy folds to the left. This doesn't produce any problems with the derraileur that I know of. But it may produce hands-off shimmy at high speeds if everything isn't 100% right. Part of the problem is that with the rear stays are designed to align perfectly at one point. Thus, a heavy or light rider can cause slight wheel mis-allignment unless the elastomer is adjusted. (I get shimmy at 25KPH on cold days on my older Birdy simply because the rear elastomer gets cold and stiffens.) This might not be a problem on BF if there is no rear suspension. Would be great to see a Swift or a BF that folded quickly into a small package. There are too few bikes out there without frame hinges. (I don't drive, so I'll pay the price.)

  9. #59
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    Anyone know what folded dimensions will be?

    And what will be max seatpost extension (center of BB to top of seat)?

  10. #60
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasong
    Anyone know what folded dimensions will be?

    And what will be max seatpost extension (center of BB to top of seat)?
    It is listed in this thread.

  11. #61
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCI_Brian
    I've been looking on the BF website and see references to an "easy pack" mast. I take it this is different than the Tikit? I couldn't find anything on the "easy pack" mast on the website.
    It is different from the tikit.

  12. #62
    Senior Member Fear&Trembling's Avatar
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    Anyone know what folded dimensions will be?
    BF state the Tikit with full racks: 36x60x88cm.

    No idea as to the max seatpost insertion, but with three sizes of frame, and a 6ft 5inch tester who has already ridden a Tikit - most people should be OK!

  13. #63
    Member, Schmember DaFriMon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasong
    Anyone know what folded dimensions will be?
    Dimensions folded with full racks was given in a message in the Bike Friday Yak. "tikit with full racks: 36x60x88cm." But see the next note.

    And what will be max seatpost extension (center of BB to top of seat)?
    It's supposed to come in three different sizes, so presumably folded size, and all other dimensions, will vary.
    You're right, I do have more bikes than I need.

  14. #64
    Señor Mambo
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    Quote Originally Posted by pm124
    The Birdy folds to the left.
    Dope! Sorry. Its been a while.

  15. #65
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    Bacciaglupe I have to respond to your complaint of deraileur bending problems on Bike Fridays. I have owned Pocket Rocket serial number 2 since about 1993. It was actually one of their test bikes and I have never in the 13/14 years that I have owned had a bent deraileur or deraileur adjustment problem. The only time I have adjusted the rear deraileur is when I have swapped the rear wheel. I have two. One the original has a freewheel and a newer one that uses a cassette hub (I wanted a 11 tooth rear sprocket). On the original freewheel the smallest I could get was a 12. Roger

  16. #66
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    Hmm. I've got three Fridays in the fold (as they say), and folding is not their best feature.

    But really, $1200 for a commuter? Compared to Brompton and Dahon, this had better be an awfully good bike to justify the price.

  17. #67
    To fold or not to fold?
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    But it does look slick doesn't it. If it comes to the UK for under a grand, I'd be sorely tempted to buy one (using the cyclescheme.co.uk 40%-50% discount to lessen the blow...)

  18. #68
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noahj
    Hmm. I've got three Fridays in the fold (as they say), and folding is not their best feature.

    But really, $1200 for a commuter? Compared to Brompton and Dahon, this had better be an awfully good bike to justify the price.
    Yeah ... unless you have some long rides as part of the commute--assuming that it rides better than the alternatives--then one has to wonder how much additional value one is getting.

    From what I gather to date, I think that the tikit will have a lot of value if you need a lot of gears, walk a lot over poor quality surfaces, and/or place a premium on ergonomics.

    Just my own anecdotal experiences ...

    I find the Brompton/Merc to have an acceptable (not good) ride; but way too narrow a gear range. It can carry a lot of stuff conveniently and can be rolled on the installed skate wheels well. (We have a Brompton/Merc)

    Dahons do fine for many people and over good value over their range of products. Broadly speaking, I find the ergonomics better than the Brompton/Merc but still somewhat limited compared to my regular bike. When I ride--I am 6' and just shy of 200 lbs--all the Dahons I have ridden except the Mu flex a lot. Carrying stuff on the Dahon is not particularly convenient.

    Anyway ...

    ... if the tikit is executed well, there is a place for the bike. Walter@BF wrote that a right front pannier can remain on the bike while folded. So I imagine that one could conveniently carry enough stuff for work in a single pannier. It will be interesting to see whether the ride is good enough for short tours and moderate club rides.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhenning
    Bacciaglupe I have to respond to your complaint of deraileur bending problems on Bike Fridays. I have owned Pocket Rocket serial number 2 since about 1993. It was actually one of their test bikes and I have never in the 13/14 years that I have owned had a bent deraileur or deraileur adjustment problem. The only time I have adjusted the rear deraileur is when I have swapped the rear wheel. I have two. One the original has a freewheel and a newer one that uses a cassette hub (I wanted a 11 tooth rear sprocket). On the original freewheel the smallest I could get was a 12. Roger

    This must be something of a collector's item!

  20. #70
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    I guess it is. It is known as the classic style frame with two frame tubes. Here is a picture of me playing in the parking lot in Arizona at Bike Friday week last March. Roger
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by rhenning; 01-28-07 at 01:38 PM.

  21. #71
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    I wonder how long we will have to wait before they actually release a version with a hub gear to market (for that matter, I wonder how long it will be before the derailleur version hits the market). This bike looks great, but why would they use a derailleur on a bike intended for urban commuting?

    In any case, I'm very keen on this bike. After flipping the latches a couple times on the Curve D3 at a bike shop yesterday, my fingers are so sore I can barely type!
    Last edited by makeinu; 01-28-07 at 01:54 PM.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe
    I agree... with some practice you can fold a Brompton in 10 seconds flat, into a much nicer package than the Tikit. Plus it's 3x the price of a typical Dahon.

    I hope it works out well for them. But I've got a feeling the biggest upshot is it will make the Bromptons seem reasonably priced in comparison!
    Going by those videos 10 seconds is an iceage compared to the time to fold a tikit. Since it's so fast it's hard to accurately measure, but it looks like it takes about 7 seconds at a leisurely pace and about 3 seconds when hustling.

    Also, the Brompton is a smaller package, but the tikit looks like a much nicer package to me. Much easier to maneuver with the dedicated handlebar protruding from the bottom of the folded seatpost at one end and the free rolling front wheel protruding towards the other.

    All in all it looks like the folding functionality is as good as a strida and, going by Bike Friday's reputation, it will probably blow both the Strida and the Brompton out of the water in terms of rideability and it uses standard components like other Bike Fridays. The only thing that bugs me is that derailleur.

    In any case, I'm definitely taking a trip out to the 'burbs to check this bike out (not-so-local bike shop says they're "coming soon"). Sure it's expensive, but at least your paying for quality, made to order, instead of paying for overseas shipping and a poor exchange rate (that is for us americans).
    Last edited by makeinu; 01-28-07 at 10:45 PM.

  23. #73
    J3L 2404 gbcb's Avatar
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    Anyone have a link to a non Google Video version of the folding video? Not sure if China or Google is to blame, but I'm not able to watch Google Video here

  24. #74
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    thanks for the link, i too will be taking a trip from my burb by annapolis to the college park shops to see it . im still saving my pennies and who knows i may be able to save enough.

  25. #75
    Senior Member Fear&Trembling's Avatar
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    The only thing that bugs me is that derailleur
    Don't worry, hub gears have also been earmarked for the tikit, and should follow fairly quickly. If they had announced a hub-geared model to begin with, people would only have moaned about the lack of a derailleur equipped model...

    Since it's so fast it's hard to accurately measure, but it looks like it takes about 7 seconds at a leisurely pace and about 3 seconds when hustling.
    The Tikit is undeniably quick at folding - but 3 secs seems a bit optimistic. I would want to make sure the saddle was properly aligned and everything was securley fastened.

    The only thing that confuses me is why BF opted for 349s and not 406s - looking at the bike and the way it folds, 20" wheels would not have made much difference to the folded size (which with the Tikit is long). Then again, there could be compelling reasons for going with 16"s...

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