DaFriMon

Concerning the speed of folding, yes it's cool to see a bike being folded and unfolded really fast. I can see that in some situation where you're literally dashing not to miss your train or bus, even a few seconds can count. Still, if you're really that rushed, then maybe you need to plan ahead a little better. I'll settle for even a folding time of a minute, with a little extra time to get the bike in a bag, if it results in an easily manageable package. A difference in folding time of 10 seconds or so wouldn't make any difference to me in choosing between bikes.

About the choice of derailleur rather than hub gears on this bike, I have my doubts if it's going to be used as a short distance commuter. Looking at the tikit pictures and videos, though, it seems that the short cage derailleur they use isn't any closer to the ground that on many of their models with 406 wheels.

spambait11

I'm going to speculate that if the tikit is successful, its design might be used in some way, shape, or form for their other bikes. Or they might create a separate line based on its design.

makeinu

The College Park shop doesn't even have any bromptons to show, so I doubt they will have any of these to show either. However, College Park is much easier for me to get to than Mt Airy. Perhaps if they know we both want to see one in College Park they'll send one over. If not, maybe we can carpool to Mt Airy?

I'm a little skeptical that hub gears will be following fairly quickly. It takes up to 8 weeks just to get a bike in Bike Friday's current lineup! Also, fixed and dualdrives seem to be earmarked before hub gears. I really hope I'm wrong because I need a folder soon, but I have a feeling that I wouldn't be able to get one with hub gears this year if I decided to get one.

A couple of things:
1. The video shows 3 seconds and the guy starts riding immediately afterward (only 2/5 of the videos show unfolding).
2. I hear you about double checking things for peace-of-mind/safety, but the bike does give auditory feedback by snapping into place.
3. How would you check that it was securely fastened anyway? In one of the videos the guy simply lifts the bike by the seat and lets it bounce once to show the camera that it is rigid. He could do the same to show himself that it is rigid and it would only add an extra second to the unfolding time (making a total of 4 seconds).
4. How long does it take to fold a brompton if you double check that its secured? Probably more than 10 seconds.
5. How do you turn all those little bits on the brompton while wearing gloves in the winter anyway? Mike Tyson could ride the tikit to the bathroom between rounds.

To me its not a matter of shaving off seconds when rushing, but a matter of convenience. Would you want to wear pants that you had to remove to go to the bathroom? Probably not, even though it probably takes less than 30 seconds and you don't go to the bathroom more than a few times a day and you could probably wait an extra 30 seconds. It's just a hassle. With something as quick folding as the tikit, you don't even have to think about whether or not you should leave home without it. Unless you're taking out the trash, there's really no reason not to take it with you. These are all the same advantages that the strida has, except the tikit "Rides as good as your best bike" (if you believe BFs boasting) and uses standard parts. Of course, it's double the price.

Hopefully it packs like the other Bike Fridays. The only situation where I think the difference in folded size between the tikit and the brompton would really be a problem for me is when flying.

invisiblehand

First of all, how many people on this forum are in the DC area?

I have not been to College Park Bicycles in a bit; but they still had a Brompton with a P-bar (the one sort of like a pretzel) the last time I stopped by.

If you are really interested in an internal hub, you should ask the BF guys. They have always been willing to accommodate customers.

Makeinu ... regarding the pants ... that is one of the funniest yet illustrative examples I have read. I hope you don't mind, but I am going to use elsewhere.

Fear&Trembling

I had a feeling the speedy folding time and convenience of the Tikit would grab your attention Makeinu!

Not sure about that - the Tikit’s folded dimensions are large - on par with a 20” folder. Notice on the BF promo pics how the bus is almost empty; if it was full, the Tikit would be a lot less convenient for your fellow commuters….That said, I can live with those dimensions for multi-modal use.

Maybe, maybe not - but BF could customise one for you...

You ignored my caveat about saddle alignment - but I agree with you about the ingenuity and celerity of the Tikit's fold...

For the fixed model, they're already talking about bolt on dropouts for 120mm hubs...

igor455

well i guess you could say that i am in the dc area since im only about 30 miles away as the crow flys. i live between baltimore and annapolis and can jump on rt 100 to get to either mt airy or college park fairly quickly. i only usually go to the district to the vietnam memorial or to hte police memorial week. and i can be armed in the district. maybe its a karma thing. i will go to either mt airy or to college park to see the tikit cause i want to see one

makeinu

Where are you getting this info? I don't see it on the BF yak. If the fixed one is significantly cheaper then I might pick that up for now and add an internal hub later.

In fact, the more I think about it the more I like the idea of just getting a fixed and saving my pennies for a secondary geared wheel with an internal hub. After all, the weight savings achieved by running fixed is more beneficial for folders than it is for regular bikes and the quick and agile attributes of fixed gearing would seem to compliment the quick fold of the tikit rather nicely. Furthermore, BF obviously isn't quite ready to implement internal hubs on these bikes and I believe that we will continue to see significant improvements in the product of internal hub manufacturers in the near future, which means that I will probably be able to get a much better internally hubbed wheel if I wait. Yup, the more I think about it, the more I like it.

BTW, in case you guys didn't catch it. The tikit uses standard parts and, in addition to it's folding functionality, can be easily packed, just like any other Bike Friday.

Fear&Trembling

I was tired of all this conjecture (particularly my own) so I emailed Walter at BF last week. I have also been in contact with the BF distributor in the UK...

Ha ha, for once, agree with everything you have written. I imagine a sub-9kg Tikit will be attainable, but I doubt the cost will be substantially lower than £1200...

You'll be teaching my grandmother to suck eggs next I agree, it is certainly a bonus that it will pack down for airline travel as well as for multimodal use.

makeinu

What? Even the version with the derailleur is supposed to be $1200 (~£615). The fixie should be at least a little cheaper.

Fear&Trembling

In the UK, where US bikes are concerned the $ usually equates to the £, -10% or so. However, that was a typo in earlier in post. If I was to idly speculate, I doubt the fixed will be much less than $800-900 when it is released.

invisiblehand

It may be a little bit cheaper ... but the components on an 8-speed rear-derailer-only bike are inexpensive in the first place.

I do not have a fixed-gear bike ... so my quick guess is that the difference is

(subtract) derailer, hub, cassette, rear brake, rear brake lever, rear cables, ...

(add) hub and cog

Any idea of the price difference?

EDIT: I forgot to include labor.

makeinu

I'd call that significantly cheaper. $800 to $1200 is a 50% increase.

Yeah, in the current BF lineup there is one fixie and it's only about $100 cheaper than its 18 speed counterpart. Not really worth it if you're trying to save money over one with a derailleur (not a hub), but I guess it helps ease the pain of eventually shelling out for a nexus 8 or some such.

Fear&Trembling

Depends what cog, hub, chain and crankset, - there are a lot of choices/prices. I don't think it will be a whole lot less than the derailleur model because (rather like the Birdy) you are paying a premium for the frame and folding technology, and, a fixed will be more likely to be produced in smaller numbers...

If the fixed Tikit gets specced the way I want it, it will probably be more than $1200.

spambait11

You never know. Walter has come up with deals in the past in which people who bought fixies received a Phil Wood rear hub upgrade for *free*.

makeinu

Bike Friday has been selling tikit accessories from their online store.

16" tires, folding pedals, etc.

igor455

i see the accessories, the folding pedals would be good as well as a good seat. sooo if it hits mt airy well ill have to wander over there and see what i see. if you need a ride let me know e can work something out

makeinu

I called Mount Airy and they told me the bike hasn't been released yet and that they don't know when they'll be getting any. I also talked to Walter at Bike Friday about ordering one from BF and he said that he'd like to support local bike shops with the tikit (I don't know if this means that Bike Friday won't be selling them directly). He also said that Bfold in NYC has already placed an order for some tikits.

For the kind of money this bike costs, I'm not going to chase anyone. At the very least I hope Mt Airy will have some different gearing options to test ride at the DC Bike Summit in March.

makeinu

Does anyone know how much this thing is supposed to weigh?

Fear&Trembling

11.2 kg according to the German distributor's blog. Check out the link on the BF Tikit page...

makeinu

ahh, I knew I had read that somewhere, but I couldn't find it so I just thought I had imagined it........the blog actually says 11.4kg

OldiesONfoldies

11.4kg for a 16" hi performance commuter folder sounds a bit tubby! Dahon's Curve SL claims 9.9kg for half the price (US$640) sounds like better value to me.

https://www.dahon.com/us/curvesl.htm

But then again, who buys Bike Friday because of their value prices? That said, it will be interesting to see how Tikit performs against the market leaders Brompton et al for this segment.

invisiblehand

So 25 lbs. for the tikit ... I wonder what they included on the bike when weighed. Did they include the pedals and saddle? What about the front rack?

BTW, I do not see the weight listed on tikit2ride.com ... but it would not be the first time I overlooked something.

Part of the Bike Friday value is the quality of the ride and build, the product support, and standard components which make repair and upgrading the bike easier than a Dahon. Those aspects do not readily appear on a spec sheet. However, with that said, everyone agrees that BFs are not cheap.

Personally, I think that it will pay to wait for (1) the first generation bikes to get some mainstream usage and (2) BF to include internal hubs as a standard option.

I asked the YAK group whether the following rack would fit on the tikit ...

https://www.rivbike.com/webalog/baggage_racks/20020.html

As is, the pictures of the tikit include a front rack with only a right pannier on the bike. Apparently, the right pannier can remain on the bike when folded. Not that I have a lot of experience with front panniers--none with stuff only on one side--but I worry that it would have bad effects on the bike's handling. I am thinking that the mini-rack linked above could hold a rack-top bag while folded. But it isn't clear to me whether the rack will fit in the first place.

makeinu

There is a link to a german blog on tikit2ride. Google translator translates the last few sentences as:
I'm a relatively small guy. I'm hoping that if I go with the small version and make it fixed gear I'll be able to get that down to more like 9kg. Maybe not though. For me, whether or not 25 pounds is acceptable depends on how unwieldy it is while folded (if the position of the handle gives good leverage for lifting it, if the folded mass is balanced, if it doesn't try to fall apart while folded, etc).

spambait11

It looks awkward to lift, and I notice they only roll it using the front wheel with the folded bike leaned towards the side (the lean could be exaggerated though). It's good that both wheels are not used to roll the bike, otherwise there probably wouldn't be a fixed gear option.

invisiblehand

That was my first impression. However, there is a second picture with the tikit in a bag. Notice that there appears to be a second handle further forward. Of course without trying to lift the bike it is impossible to tell, but the second handle should make it considerably easier to lift.

https://www.bikefriday.com/sites/defa..._1.preview.jpg

More generally, I think this is where the 25 lb. plus weight is a potential problem. Despite the tikit's ability to be rolled, there are situations where one wants to pick up the bike. I expect small women or men with little upper body strength to have problems with the bike's weight. If the weight does not include a saddle, pedals, and other options then it might become a serious issue.