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-   -   Dahon Cadenza vs. Swift Xootr (http://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/292916-dahon-cadenza-vs-swift-xootr.html)

DVC45 04-29-07 08:10 PM

Dahon Cadenza vs. Swift Xootr
 
I know they have two different wheel size but I'm more concerned about component quality, customer support and overall feel/handling. Fold size is not an issue either.
Anyone had test rode both? I appreciate any feedback.

maunakea 04-30-07 04:34 AM

I own and ride both. My steel Swift is so good I haven't changed a thing. The only remaining stock parts on my Cadenza are the frame and seatpost (see the M'Kadenza thread). I wanted a folding road bike, which the M'Kadenza is after a complete rebuild. The stock Cadenza (harshness alert) is more like a Xootr Scooter than a bike.

Bacciagalupe 04-30-07 07:36 AM

So the steel Swift has a better ride than the Cadenza? Weird. Any idea which components contribute to that?

Similarly, any idea how a steel Swift compares to a stock Xootr Swift (aluminum)?

maunakea 04-30-07 08:14 AM

Bacci, yep, the Swift is hands down the better ride, as in night and day better with 100 psi tires on the Swift and the OE Contis at 85 psi on the Cadenza (before the rebuild). I think the two major factors are the steel frame vs. the alu frame, and the forks. The rebuilt M'Kadenza with 120 psi tires and CF forks is certainly faster than the Swift for the same watts, but even with the sus seatpost on the M'Kadenza, I prefer the ride of the Swift. One confounding fun factor is the Swift is my only bike with a gear hub, which I love except for the requirement to ease up when shifting. I'll post some pix of me and the Swift in Vienna, but I'm still traveling (now in the UK, via KLM, not the Swift). I love !!! the ability to pack the Swift with frog pedals mounted. Open the n'Flite to riding in the time it takes to put the saddle on the seatpost, screw in the pivot bolt, and mount the front wheel ... maybe 5 mins.

DVC45 04-30-07 04:42 PM

Thanks Maunakea!
So the Cadenza's bigger wheel didn't help a bit? Would you expect the same result if you had an alluminum Swift?

mosquito 04-30-07 10:32 PM

hey maunakea how much did you pay for the bike and what parts came with it? was it stock or did you specify what you wanted?

maunakea 05-01-07 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVC45
Thanks Maunakea!
So the Cadenza's bigger wheel didn't help a bit? Would you expect the same result if you had an alluminum Swift?

DVC, I think the harshness is directly linked to the OE forks on the Cadenza. The harshness on the 26", lower psi tires surprised me, and the major change between the OE bike and the rebuilt bike with ISO 620, but much higher psi tires, is the CF fork. If you get a Cadenza, change the fork to CF.... the best single improvement you can make. I see "old version" (maintube fold) Cadenzas on eBay from time to time.

An alu Swift still has the Swift steel fork .... so I think even an alu Swift would ride better than a Cadenza.

I'll reiterate what all Swift owners know.... the Swift is incredible. Feels as stable as a MTB.


Quote:

Originally Posted by mosquito
hey maunakea how much did you pay for the bike and what parts came with it? was it stock or did you specify what you wanted?

I was lucky to find a steel Swift on eBay about a year ago. 7 speed S-A gear hub. I paid the Buy It Now price of $700 the instant I saw it. It was barely ridden, no sign of wear on the rear tire, much less the front.

spambait11 05-01-07 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maunakea
I was lucky to find a steel Swift on eBay about a year ago. 7 speed S-A gear hub. I paid the Buy It Now price of $700 the instant I saw it. It was barely ridden, no sign of wear on the rear tire, much less the front.

So that's the story huh?
Damn! That's a GREAT find, mk!

Donkey Hodie 05-01-07 11:47 PM

I would like to know how the aluminum xootr swift and the 2007 aluminum cadenza compare. The eccentric bottom bracket and disc mounts on the new 07' cadenza look attractive(not to mention the rest of the bike).

I think a comparison of the aluminum xootr swift and the 2007 aluminum cadenza would be more of a fair comparison than an all steel swift vs. the older cadenza.
The '07 cadenza's frame is completely different than the previous year's cadenzas.

DVC45 05-01-07 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey Hodie
I would like to know how the aluminum xootr swift and the 2007 aluminum cadenza compare. The eccentric bottom bracket and disc mounts on the new 07' cadenza look attractive(not to mention the rest of the bike).

I think a comparison of the aluminum xootr swift and the 2007 aluminum cadenza would be more of a fair comparison than an all steel swift vs. the older cadenza.
The '07 cadenza's frame is completely different than the previous year's cadenzas.

' agree!

james_swift 05-02-07 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey Hodie
The eccentric bottom bracket...on the new 07' cadenza look attractive(not to mention the rest of the bike).

Oh man, I smell a fixed-gear conversion with this bike. :D

spambait11 05-02-07 03:40 PM

For the '07 Cadenza, you are not going to get a better component spec or better overall frame design at that price. The Swift is not only more expensive, but can crack at the seat stays because of a seatpost modification (though the OP did not explicitly say what he did exactly), which does not appear to be an issue with a Cadenza. Besides, if fold size is not an issue, why would you not want a full-sized bike which you know uses standard parts - parts which are usually cheaper with better variety?

DVC45 05-02-07 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spambait11
Besides, if fold size is not an issue, why would you not want a full-sized bike which you know uses standard parts - parts which are usually cheaper with better variety?

' my thoughts exactly, but I wanted to know if the Swift has more to offer because of its price.
Looks like the Cadenza is it.

JonathanG 05-03-07 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spambait11
Besides, if fold size is not an issue, why would you not want a full-sized bike which you know uses standard parts - parts which are usually cheaper with better variety?

Aside from the seatpost the Swift does take all standard parts. I have ridden the aluminum Xootr Swift (now undergoing a fixed gear conversion), and it is very and comfortable and responsive. This past September I did the New York City Century with my brother, who was on a cross bike, and it was fine.

I haven't tried or seen a Cadenza, which sounds like a good bike, but I'm not sure a reason to choose it over a Swift would be availability of component upgrades.

Jonathan

maunakea 05-03-07 05:29 AM

There's a fundamental difference between the new Cadenza and all Swifts... a Swift folds, and Cadenza does not. A Cadenza separates. If you don't need to fold, buy a Cadenza and mod it. If you need to fold, as in daily multi-mode, the new Cadenza would be a regrettable choice.

Donkey Hodie 05-03-07 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maunakea
There's a fundamental difference between the new Cadenza and all Swifts... a Swift folds, and Cadenza does not. A Cadenza separates. If you don't need to fold, buy a Cadenza and mod it. If you need to fold, as in daily multi-mode, the new Cadenza would be a regrettable choice.

Are you sure about this? I thought it actually did fold, but you needed an hex tool to do so. Could you link to a source that verifies weather or not the cadenza separates or folds?

jur 05-03-07 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maunakea
There's a fundamental difference between the new Cadenza and all Swifts... a Swift folds, and Cadenza does not. A Cadenza separates. If you don't need to fold, buy a Cadenza and mod it. If you need to fold, as in daily multi-mode, the new Cadenza would be a regrettable choice.

From the Cadenza description at the Dahon site:
Quote:

New LockJaw™ frame technology delivers an incredibly stiff frame that folds in seconds so you'll always have instant mobility.

spambait11 05-03-07 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonathanG
Aside from the seatpost the Swift does take all standard parts.

You're right for the most part, but as a folding bike, it's all a matter of degrees. The Swift seems better in the standardization area than some; I only see odd sizes for the seatpost and handlebar post (as in you just can't walk into an LBS and pull one off the shelf), but then again, I don't own one. Tires and tubes can be significantly cheaper for full-sized bikes than for folding bikes, though, with better variety.

Also if you do a component by component comparison between a Cadenza and a Swift, then take a look at the prices, I think there's no comparison. Plus I doubt the ride of a Cadenza is any less worse than a Swift (the Cadenza looks to have a mountain bike-like wheelbase: comfy), but that seems to be what the OP's trying to find out for sure.

spambait11 05-03-07 11:04 AM

The Cadenza looks like it folds to me as well, but that hinge by the bottom bracket looks like a weak point. Maybe Thor could shed more light?

dalmore 05-03-07 12:15 PM

Looks like a fold to me too.
http://dahon.com/images/bikes/large/folded/cadenza.jpg

Donkey Hodie 05-03-07 09:35 PM

Another reason an eccentric bottom bracket is attractive, is because you can run it as a single speed or with an internally geared hub along with disc brakes without having to re-align or readjust the disc brake when making the chain tension tighter. With rear facing or horizontal drop outs, a rear disc brake is not a great thing because it goes out of alignment when you move the wheel back in the dropouts when you need to make the chain tension tighter. With an eccentric bottom bracket, you move the bottom bracket to adjust chain tension instead of the rear wheel which in turn keeps the rear disc brake in alignment with the rear wheel.

This is definitely an advantage the cadenza has over the swift imo.

Donkey Hodie 05-03-07 09:36 PM

Does anyone know if the Cadenza will be available in the U.S. as a frame set?

spambait11 05-03-07 10:10 PM

Yes to the frameset (the last time I inquired - early 2007), but with the component spec, you're probably better off buying the whole bike.

Donkey Hodie 05-04-07 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spambait11
Yes to the frameset (the last time I inquired - early 2007), but with the component spec, you're probably better off buying the whole bike.


Yeah, your probably right. That def makes sense.

maunakea 05-04-07 04:09 PM

My mistake about folding ... maybe half a mistake. The new Cadenza requires a hex key to unlock the hinge (I got it confused with the Ritchie BreakAway bikes Dahon makes).

In my book, using a hex key to unlock the hinge is not a true folder. I had relegated the new Cadenza to the "non-folder" segment of bicycle memory.

[Added: Getting a hex key out to me means putting a folder in a suitcase for travel. I think I would rebuild a Jack rather than deal with a hex key every time I folded.]


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