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Old 06-02-07, 01:33 AM   #1
14R 
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Internal Gears; Rohloff competition finally available

From the commuter forum
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Old 06-02-07, 01:35 AM   #2
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How do I know if I can install this into my Brompton?
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Old 06-02-07, 04:37 AM   #3
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I am not too sure I would want to plunk that much weight into a folder, by my best guess it would add a good 3#+ to a standard 24# folder, pushing the weight up to unmanageable for all but the strongest people. I can jack a 60# bike around with no problems, but when it comes to folders I want to keep it as light as reasonably possible to make handling easier. But it is a neat device and I can see a market for it. I may give one a shot on my Staiger when I convert to the Xtracycle/StokeMonkey configuration next year.

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Old 06-02-07, 07:38 AM   #4
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The weight is reported as 4.2 kg (or something like that) in the thread.

How heavy is that relative to the Rohloff? Which, by the way, also has a wider gear range.
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Old 06-02-07, 08:29 AM   #5
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I am eyeing the NuVincy hub for a long time now. It may be heavy, but it's just the thing for commuting or touring. If I don't lose interest in a year or so, I predict I will have one.
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Old 06-02-07, 08:55 AM   #6
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I dunno... I don't understand what problem CVT resolves - clicking a shifter? not enough gearing? Spending $1,000 and adding 4 kgs to your bike to solve those two issues seem like a bad trade-off to me.

What's the target market for this type of product?
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Old 06-02-07, 09:51 AM   #7
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mmmmm ... I DO like the idea of keeping a constant favourite cadence with variable road speed ... especially when setting off around town.

But I just cant see that without any positive transmission (ie just friction into / out of balls) that the efficiency will be same as regular hub gears (which are already a bit inefficent in non-direct ratios.

But like Jur, I am fascinated, and cant wait to try it in anger, (not just in the shop).
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Old 06-02-07, 06:44 PM   #8
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"What's the target market for this type of product?"

Electric motorbikes.
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Old 06-02-07, 08:18 PM   #9
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Gears sound slippy. Love the idea but sounds a bit like the DAF belt driven auto transmission - good on paper but - hmm - in practice?!?

Raph - your sig image it teh 2 big! lolz...
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Old 06-02-07, 08:40 PM   #10
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I wonder, it it was made from lightweight materials, what it would come to in weight.

Problems it solves: Infinite number of gears, being able to select the exact cadence you want at any speed. The gear range is wide enough; with a 305% on my Raleigh Twenty during my recent loaded tour I could ride almost everywhere, with 350% I can get everywhere.

I have not found any numbers for efficiency on Fallbrooks' site, but if it is 97%, everything else being the same, then it easily equals or beats a typical derailer system.

But I think they would need to reduce weight if it is to find widespread appeal in the bike market. Plus they need to cross the hurdle of the current paradigm that dismisses everything that is NOT a derailer system, as well as the historical attempts at CVTs for bicycles that turned out very inefficient, because as soon as people hear CVT, they say 'been there, doesn't work' just like for shaft drives.
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Old 06-02-07, 09:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jur
Plus they need to cross the hurdle of the current paradigm that dismisses everything that is NOT a derailer system...
I don't know. I can think of a thing or two I'd rather spend $1k on, and a bike hub is not one of them.
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Old 06-02-07, 09:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spambait11
I don't know. I can think of a thing or two I'd rather spend $1k on, and a bike hub is not one of them.
Same here.

There are a few on ebay as we speak for $399, if I had spare wads lying around, I'd have considered it.

I wonder about long-term performance - as the various bearings wear, does the hub begin to slip?
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Old 06-03-07, 06:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spambait11
I don't know. I can think of a thing or two I'd rather spend $1k on, and a bike hub is not one of them.
Plenty of people are plunking down $1400+ for the Rohlhoff hubs...and IIRC the LIST price on the NuVinci is around $450-$500 very competitive in my opinion. I will be interested to see the durability, serviceability, etc. I can see plenty of uses for it in commuting and commercial uses, and as fuel costs continue to rise I think more people will be turning to bicycles for short haul trips. FWIW I am working towards an xtracycle and the NuVinici would be a good fit for what I have in mind. I was contemplating a Rohloff but the limited availability and the price are a serious consideration.

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Old 06-03-07, 07:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHenry
"What's the target market for this type of product?"

Electric motorbikes.
Good one.

It looks like the electric motor from Sram except that YOU have to provide the engine!

I don't like the device in it's current state but will say it might have a future if they can bring the weight down by 5 pounds (the hub weights 9 lbs). The Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub weights about 2 pounds and that is the standard. However, that might be asking for too much so if they can bring the weight down to 4lbs, it might have a future.

I also don't like the fact that you don't know what gear your're in. Spinning that shifter three complete turns to go through the entire gears would get old real fast. I like the the AW-3 and Sprinter because I always know what gear I'm in and can get there fast without having to constantly make adjustments from a friction shifter.

A 35-37 pound Brompton does not sound very attractive.
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Old 06-03-07, 08:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoonc
Plenty of people are plunking down $1400+ for the Rohlhoff hubs...and IIRC the LIST price on the NuVinci is around $450-$500 very competitive in my opinion.
Well, the Rolhoff gives a 526% gear range, the NuVinci gives 350%. The SRAM iMotion 9 hub gives 340%. The iMotion's basic model, with coaster brake and steel shell, weighs about half of the NuVinci, and the carbon shell freewheel version will probably be under a third. The SRAM 9-speed hub will probably retail for about half the cost of the NuVinci in the USA.

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Old 06-03-07, 09:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoonc
FWIW I am working towards an xtracycle and the NuVinici would be a good fit for what I have in mind. I was contemplating a Rohloff but the limited availability and the price are a serious consideration.

Aaron
And let me go on record saying that we're all waiting to see this build!

Stokemoney too, right?
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Old 06-03-07, 10:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spambait11
And let me go on record saying that we're all waiting to see this build!

Stokemoney too, right?
now that is about the truth!

Yep long term plans call for a Stokemonkey too. I have a Staiger with aluminum frame, 700c wheels that is currently set up as a city bike with 21 speed dérailleur system on it. It already has the Nexus generator hub so that is one less thing to worry about. It will get built up in stages as funds allow. First round will be the Free Radical, then the rear wheel with whatever hub gets chosen, then the Stoke Monkey. It is going to become a replacement for my pickup truck if you call using a bicycle a replacement for a F350 crew cab dually

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Old 06-03-07, 11:12 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by tcs
Well, the Rolhoff gives a 526% gear range, the NuVinci gives 350%. The SRAM iMotion 9 hub gives 340%.... The SRAM 9-speed hub will probably retail for about half the cost of the NuVinci in the USA.
+1, I do not see the NuVinci as comparable to the Ripoff -- err, Rohloff.

CVT seems like a neat concept, and I'm sure it has some good uses somewhere. But when it comes to cycling, I don't see the benefit. After all, to get a consistent cadence I'd have to micro-manage my gearing, and why do I want to be bothered with that -- especially when commuting or touring? For both those applications, I'd rather concentrate on my surroundings than on my shifter.
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Old 06-03-07, 03:09 PM   #19
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now that is about the truth!
Where's that freudian slip icon. (Don't tell Todd. )
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Old 06-03-07, 04:11 PM   #20
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Rohloff is the best gear on the world and the are nothing like this on the mark today,I own a Bike Friday NW Tourist with a Rohloff and is 1000 times better then the same bike my wife own with shimano xt 27 gear.If you have the money go for and if not save it
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Old 06-03-07, 07:16 PM   #21
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What is the efficiency? That's the real problem if 10% of your effort goes to heating up the oil in the hub who would want one. Can it run backwards like a fixed gear can?
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Old 06-06-07, 04:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe
+1, I do not see the NuVinci as comparable to the Ripoff -- err, Rohloff.

CVT seems like a neat concept, and I'm sure it has some good uses somewhere. But when it comes to cycling, I don't see the benefit. After all, to get a consistent cadence I'd have to micro-manage my gearing, and why do I want to be bothered with that -- especially when commuting or touring? For both those applications, I'd rather concentrate on my surroundings than on my shifter.
Some benefits: cheaper then Rohloff, no maintenance, shifting without any hassle (even standing still), always the right cadence.
Instead of "micro-manage your gearing and concentrating on your shifter", you simply turn the shifter a little bit if you're out of cadence. Without losing your concentration at the surroundings.
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Old 06-06-07, 05:51 AM   #23
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The high weight of the Du vinci might be to ensure durability in use with electric scooters or it may simply need refinement.Engineering costs money.Drop out width is 135 mm.Could this be used to convert a 6 speed derailluer Bicycle?!This could convert a sturdy 6 speed cruiser to a functional tourer just change the tires add some luggage capacity and Voila!( excusez moi Francais) If it is as good as they claim it will revolutionize the bike industry if allowed to.

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Old 06-06-07, 06:24 AM   #24
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I'd really like to see an independent engineering test of the performance of the hub - particularly with regard to efficiency. The 97% figure sounds incredibly good. If it is true, we will be seeing more of these when someone makes a version from lighter materials.
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Old 06-06-07, 06:51 AM   #25
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I'd really like to see an independent engineering test of the performance of the hub - particularly with regard to efficiency. The 97% figure sounds incredibly good. If it is true, we will be seeing more of these when someone makes a version from lighter materials.
What is wrong with user reviews? Who cares about numbers? I don't care about exact efficiency numbers. I know the NuVinci is as good as a derailleur (or even better), because I own both.

Don't make a big issue of the weight. The NuVinci was introduced in 2007. They made it sturdy (and heavy) and there is only one model, so for now it can only be used in LEVs and citybikes. I'm sure there will be more (lighter) models next year.
My new NuVinci bike is heavy (24kg), but it rides as light as my former (derailleur) bike (about 20kg).

I'm sure NuVinci will be a hit (at least in Europe).
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