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Old 09-15-07, 05:33 AM   #1
brodo
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Pocket Llama, Dahon Speed TR or Pashley-Moulton TSR8 ?

Which of the following models would be fine during longer tour out of civilisation area ?

Pocket Llama,
Dahon Speed TR,
Pashley-Moulton TSR8

Non proprietary parts are a must and durability in general, too.
Will the cheaper Dahon match the quality of its competitors ?
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Old 09-15-07, 05:59 AM   #2
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I would be hesitant to take the Dahon due to a narrow front hub and proprietary steering parts. I am ignorant about the other 2.

Of course, these don't exactly fall into the same class, do they? Are these what you have lying around in your garage...?
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Old 09-15-07, 06:16 AM   #3
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I have recently bought a Pashley-Moulton TSR30 which I have ridden for only 147 miles in the last ten days. Aside from its suspension components which should be very reliable, it has no proprietary parts at all. They have basically built a hand made frame and suspension, and then built it up with high quality cycle parts.

I'll write a review of the bike when I've put some miles on it. I don't really approve of reviewing a bike after twenty miles. I immediately removed the racing stelvio tyres and put on Schwalb Marathons. The bike handles very well, is extremely comfortable and is a joy to ride on. I would think it would make an excellent tourer. The TSR8 will not have the kind of gear range for a comfortable extended tour unless it was in Holland or somewhere without challenging terrain, so I wouldn't recommend that particular model. They do a TSR27 with suitable tyres and gearing which is not much more expensive. The one I have is a lot more expensive because of the components it carries.
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Old 09-15-07, 07:13 AM   #4
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What do you mean by "out of civilzation?"

Personally I would be hesitant to use a 20" bike in more remote areas like South America, or sub-Saharan Africa, or a mountain trail like the Great Divide. The roads are probably way too rough for 20" wheels, even with some suspension.

I'm not sure about the repair / supply situation, that depends on where you're going. For example I've heard that 26" wheels are good for use in lots of areas, because that's a more commonly used wheel size outside of the US and Europe.

At any rate, of the 3 the Llama is probably your best bet, since you can build it up custom. Per Jur I'd avoid the Dahon.

Oddly enough the TSR8 seems, uh, reasonably priced for a Moulton machine. You'd probably have to set it up for very low gearing though. I recommend you try a bike with an internal hub before buying one. Personally I find them a bit muddy and can feel the inefficiency; you may not mind it though, or will find it worth the maintenance trade-offs.
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Old 09-15-07, 07:18 AM   #5
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I recommend you try a bike with an internal hub before buying one. Personally I find them a bit muddy and can feel the inefficiency; you may not mind it though, or will find it worth the maintenance trade-offs.
I've never ridden an internal hub with more than three gears, and I understand that there are clear and simple reasons why those with multiple planetary systems to produce five to eight gears inside them are less efficient. Having said that, the SRF-3 on my Merc seems pretty good in efficiency. I'm riding two bikes at the moment, one with an internal hub and one with derialieur. Both have speedos on, accurately configured. Riding them, I feel I'm putting in very much the same amount of effort for a given speed. Obviously, this is a subjective judgement without accurate measurement, but that's how the Sturmey three speed seems to me.
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Old 09-15-07, 07:35 AM   #6
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The Pashley Moulton APB, the forerunner of the TSR models, was used succesfully on Adventure Cycling's Great Divide route and on a tour across the Gobi desert.

Is the Dahon less expensive because it is "cheaper" or because it is built in a much lower manufacturing cost country?

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Old 09-15-07, 08:22 AM   #7
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Jur,*Bacciagalupe --- None of these mentioned are waiting for me here **I just think of buying one in order to take it somewhere to some distant land (south america, canary islands or so). I didn't make any serious trips*during*years*so*I'm*thinking*to*go*to*some*tropics*to*heat*myself*during*cold winter*time*coming*to*my*area next months.*

EvilV ---*We*are*very*interested*in*your*review*of your Moulton !

Jur --- I've seen your Swift on your www page. I do not see any*suspensions*at*all.*Is*it*really comfortable*for*you*?*What*about*off-road*paths*?
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Old 09-15-07, 09:22 AM   #8
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Jur,*Bacciagalupe --- None of these mentioned are waiting for me here **I just think of buying one in order to take it somewhere to some distant land (south america, canary islands or so). I didn't make any serious trips*during*years*so*I'm*thinking*to*go*to*some*tropics*to*heat*myself*during*cold winter*time*coming*to*my*area next months.*

EvilV ---*We*are*very*interested*in*your*review*of your Moulton !

Jur --- I've seen your Swift on your www page. I do not see any*suspensions*at*all.*Is*it*really comfortable*for*you*?*What*about*off-road*paths*?
What is going on with the asterisks?

20" wheels are pretty good over a wide variety of surfaces ... particularly if you are in touring mode instead of racing mode. In fact, there are many reasons why they are superior than a full size wheel for touring (I certainly think so). And there is little doubt that they are much better for traveling than full-size wheels.

I rode a Pocket Llama once. The bottom bracket is higher than on the NWT. Maybe the wheelbase and chainstays are shorter. But I would ask a sales representative these questions. Bike Friday has a suspended models--Pocket Gnu?--but you have to ask about them. The Llama can fit very wide tires (> 2").

Bike Friday is known for their excellent customer support (24 hours + will use Fed Ex). If you are really thinking about traveling to the far reaches of the Earth and need something durable, I think that you will have a hard time going wrong with them. All of their parts are standard and the frames are chromoly. There is some premium associated with Bike Fridays but you can get a 5% off discount if you are a member of Adventure Cycling or the League of American Bicyclists.
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Old 09-15-07, 11:01 AM   #9
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Asterisks came probably from my attempt to edit my message .... but it spoilt it instead of improving .... I forgot to preview post.

By the way I am leaning to Llama entry level model. Assuming that frame is the same throughout all models, buying a cheapest one wil give me good starting point to improve it by myself.

Does anybody tried "softstem" suspension ?
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Old 09-15-07, 11:50 AM   #10
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Asterisks came probably from my attempt to edit my message .... but it spoilt it instead of improving .... I forgot to preview post.

By the way I am leaning to Llama entry level model. Assuming that frame is the same throughout all models, buying a cheapest one wil give me good starting point to improve it by myself.

Does anybody tried "softstem" suspension ?
If you are interested in the Bike Friday, you will get more detailed responses in the Bike Friday YAK group.

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Old 09-15-07, 01:32 PM   #11
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(Duplicate)

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Old 09-15-07, 01:33 PM   #12
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By the way I am leaning to Llama entry level model. Assuming that frame is the same throughout all models, buying a cheapest one wil give me good starting point to improve it by myself.
The frame is the same within each model - except for making it small or large depending on your height.

I am currently using a ThudBuster LT seat post on my Boardwalk S1 - works very nicely in the city.

The Bike Friday website has pictures and info/links on numerous folks that have done loaded touring all over the world on Pocket Llamas - China, Laos, Alaska, etc.

(Guess I should add a disclaimer: We currently have two Bike Fridays on order - a NWT [mine] and a Pocket Crusoe [wife's] )

Last edited by Foldable Two; 09-15-07 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 09-15-07, 07:09 PM   #13
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Without a doubt I would get the Bike Friday. I just rode my NWT across the country, 3450 miles, and it did just fine. It's a solid, well built frame.
Once I tried the Llama, but i felt the BB was a bit too high for my taste and less stable than the NWT when carrying a heavy load.
I also use the Softride stem with it, works great but I don't think they last very long. The plastic seals in the joints wear down, and you start to get play (movement). If it gets worse I might have to chuck it.

www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/2391
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Old 09-15-07, 09:23 PM   #14
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Incredible trip!!!

Question: Curious how much weight were you carrying on the NWT? Looked like quite a bit.
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Old 09-16-07, 05:24 AM   #15
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Without a doubt I would get the Bike Friday. I just rode my NWT across the country, 3450 miles, and it did just fine. It's a solid, well built frame.
Once I tried the Llama, but i felt the BB was a bit too high for my taste and less stable than the NWT when carrying a heavy load.
I also use the Softride stem with it, works great but I don't think they last very long. The plastic seals in the joints wear down, and you start to get play (movement). If it gets worse I might have to chuck it.

www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/2391
That trip is a fantastic achievement. Fabulous pictures and memories you'll treasure all your life. Just read through the entire Craziguy site. Inspiring.

I suppose that settles the question about the bike then. Also, the SRAM dualdrive system on Uschi's bike is an interesting idea.
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Old 09-16-07, 04:19 PM   #16
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thanks for your kind words. The Sram dual drive is great, I had it on my Friday before I put on the Rohloff, and I would definitely recommend it. Also was carrying about 30 lbs of gear.

So I don't hijack this thread, here's a link to a thread I started in the touring forum:
tour of the National Parks

thanks
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Old 09-16-07, 06:38 PM   #17
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First, small wheels are great off road, on rough roads, etc., so long as you aren't going down huge dropoffs or crater sized potholes. I ride on 18" (really 16") wheels in places that touring bike users told me were no go zones on a routine basis, but hitting potholes on 40MPH descents is not my idea of fun. Big wheeled bikes will cost you $$ and time to travel with.

Either the Moulton or BF would be great. Probably, the Moulton would be more comfy, but I'm only really going on the basis of my own dual elastomer suspension 349 wheeled bike. Moulton owners don't touch other bikes (and also don't let you touch theirs). You should try riding both from dealers if possible. The other bikes to consider are the the Airnimal, Reach, Swift, and Birdy.
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