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Thread: Bike Thief!

  1. #26
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevegor View Post
    They certainly were, however, my ancestors came as settlers ON the ships, not convicts in the ships.....no bog Irish rebels here.
    The purity of your ancestral gene pool shines through your posts stevegore - nobody could have thought otherwise. Only joking there of course as you know. Most of the convicts were just poor people conscripted into opening up the new 'possession' anyway. I doubt there was much in the way of fairness about their arrests and trial. The navy was 'staffed' in exactly the same way. Bands of thugs rounded people up and clubbed them into submission before inducting them into a navy run by the lash, bad food and scurvy. The average service was little more than a year or two. Most of them died.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  2. #27
    Senior Member Nachoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    If I saw someone stealing my bike, I'd probably start yelling at 'em and chase them off. I don't leave anything more valuable on the bike than a light. Except when I'm touring.

    But in general, I'd rather not risk injury or stupid lawsuits for a cheap and easily replaceable material object.
    Excuse me? That's my bike you're talking about.
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    Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

  3. #28
    Sister Annie Sianelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilV View Post
    This all depends where you live. Here you are entitled to use reasonable force to defend yourself, your property, or someone else. Reasonable force means an appropriate level of force in the circumstances you find yourself in, but not grossly disproportionate force. You are not allowed to stab someone in the back who is fleeing for example, or to sneak up behind a burglar and chop off his head with a sword (which has happened here and been held to be grossly disproportionate).
    What's so disproportionate? As a student of Iaido and the Tai Chi saber form I'd have the head off any burglar who broke into my house. If they didn't want to get hurt/killed/whatever they shouldn't go around breaking into houses. As for what the law says, we've had homeowners take out burglars before today here in NZ and usually jurys are pretty sympathetic and don't find them guilty or they get suspended sentences.
    As for what I'd do if I found somebody trying to nick a bike of mine, I usually carry a walking stick due to my disability and a stick can be just as good as a sword in most circumstances.
    OMNIPOTENS aeterne Deus, qui nos secundum imaginem Tuam plasmasti, et omnia bona, vera, pulchra, praesertim in divina persona Unigeniti Filii Tui Domini nostri Iesu Christi, quaerere iussisti, praesta quaesumus ut, per intercessionem Sancti Isidori, Episcopi et Doctoris, in peregrinationibus per interrete factis et manus oculosque ad quae Tibi sunt placita intendamus et omnes quos convenimus cum caritate ac patientia accipiamus. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.

  4. #29
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    Question:

    Im America, if I were to come home or wake up in the middle of the night to see a total stranger standing in the middle of my living room, can I lawfully shoot him dead on the spot?

  5. #30
    Senior Member stevegor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamcha View Post
    Question:

    Im America, if I were to come home or wake up in the middle of the night to see a total stranger standing in the middle of my living room, can I lawfully shoot him dead on the spot?

    Well, you could try to tickle him to death, but it would take longer and considering the serious nature of your question, I think the answer is yes, as long as you could prove it was in self defence.

  6. #31
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    Well no, he was just standing there. I have no idea who he is or why he is in my house. That's my question.

  7. #32
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamcha View Post
    Question:

    Im America, if I were to come home or wake up in the middle of the night to see a total stranger standing in the middle of my living room, can I lawfully shoot him dead on the spot?
    Yes we've all heard about the 'accidents' caused by triggerhappy hicks who shoot dead stangers who knock on the door asking for directions. Then there was the old lady who shot police as they came into her house recently on a mistaken drugs raid. She ended up dead. Basically it comes down to each nation to work out what it thinks is best. A case covered by the Fred Astaire song of 'You say tomAto, and I say tomAHto,' isn't it?

    But this is a folding bike forum not a troll park, so....... back to bikes maybe.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  8. #33
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Texas sounds like a back assward place to live... deadly force is something you use when you or someone else is endangered and not when someone is trying to take your stuff... which can usually be replaced.

    With that being said... if I caught anyone trying to nick my ride they wouldn't be in any shape to ride way and that's probably because I'm descended from and still have some of those bog Irish genes and a few decades of martial arts and self defense training.

    My nephew was just coming out of the bike shop after buying a new shackle for his new rig and caught a pair of fellows trying to cut his old lock off.

    When he confronted them they threatened him (which only proved they swam from the shallow end of the gene pool) and he demonstrated that a shackle does not have to be attached to one's bike to protect it.

    My nephew is a big guy who wanted to be a police officer but had that career cut short by a vehicle accident that has left him disabled but was still capable of wreaking some serious carnage on these slow swimmers.

  9. #34
    Eschew Obfuscation SesameCrunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamcha View Post
    Question:

    Im America, if I were to come home or wake up in the middle of the night to see a total stranger standing in the middle of my living room, can I lawfully shoot him dead on the spot?
    The U.S. is made up of 50 states with many different laws on this question. In California, you can't shoot the guy if there is no threat to you. There is a proportional response requirement. Tough for us mere mortals to adhere to under the circumstances.
    Last edited by SesameCrunch; 09-30-07 at 09:47 AM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcl8a View Post
    The point is that you might have clobbered the guy who bought your bike from the meth addict who actually stole it.
    Receiving stolen property is also a crime. I gave the bloke riding my stolen MTB a choice, "get off my bike or I will drive over you" (said out the passenger window). We then went to the police, who were basically useless but returned my bike to me...

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWaB View Post
    Receiving stolen property is also a crime. I gave the bloke riding my stolen MTB a choice, "get off my bike or I will drive over you" (said out the passenger window). We then went to the police, who were basically useless but returned my bike to me...
    The problem with this is that respectable citizens can be sold dodgy goods by bike shops. About 32 years ago, I bought a second hand road bike in good condition. It was a nice bike, all steel by a Japanese company called Tsunoda. I paid a fair price for it at the time (£50) probably about £350 in todays money, so we aren't talking about buying an obviously stolen bike from a bloke in the pub for a tenner. I rode it for thousands of miles and eventually, joined in a scheme to register the bike frame number withy the cops. The idea was they got loads of stolen bikes recovered and couldn't get them back to their owners (or that's what they said at the time). Anyway, about six weeks after registering my number, I got a call from the cops asking me to check the number and read it back to them. When I did this, the guy said thanks, and twenty miutes later two cops arrived and said, 'It's a stolen bike. How did you come by it?' Fortunately, I still had the receipt from the shop. It is certainly against the law to knowingly receive stolen goods, but I doubt if it is ANYWHERE to receive such goods in good faith. Had I not had a receipt, I doubt they'd have been quite so sympathetic. Also, being obviously respectable helps a lot.

    The title to the bike still rested with the original owner though, and they said I might have to give it back if he insisted that he wanted it. they did point out that I couldn't be forced to part with it except by the order of a court and that if the guy turned up I should not be intimidated into returning it. They explained to him that I had a proper receipt and had been sold it by a shop. They said they'd turn the shop over and check the records of all his stock. I never heard another thing about it.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  12. #37
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    I had an acceptable ending to my story and will repeat the method if required. Feel free to choose whatever approach you prefer.

  13. #38
    Senior Member Nycycle's Avatar
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    I ran after them as fast as I could with people in the way, they saw me coming and took off, good thing or I may have been facing assault charges.

    Around here cops won't do anything, especially to thieves.
    I hate cars,

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Texas sounds like a back assward place to live... deadly force is something you use when you or someone else is endangered and not when someone is trying to take your stuff... which can usually be replaced.
    .
    So you think not letting people take your stuff is backwards? Sounds like you haven't been the victim of theft. You haven't seen your house door smashed in and constantly worried about it happening again. Haven't seen the system that produces disinterested, slow to respond, and slower to care police. You haven't written out that bitter check for the insurance company deductible. Due to the pervasive attitude of non-involvement, you have not realized how much more you pay for stuff due to theft and vandalism.

    Painting over graffiti gets rid of it for a week.
    Chopping off the arm of the "artist" and nailing it to the wall gets rid of the graffiti on that wall and on many other walls forever.

    Americas system only seems to punishes those that are trying to improve or reform.
    It you do not care, that system can not punish you until you get real jail time.

    What is the difference between a thousand dollar fine and a ten million dollar fine to someone that can not, will not and or does not care to pay? Answer: The ten million dollar fine is a lot funnier.


    I want to live some where that there is actually some real deterrents to being a criminal.

    Maybe Arizona

    see : http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...joe_arpaio.htm

  15. #40
    Hooligan Abneycat's Avatar
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    I often bike in areas with aggressive wildlife, and used to work in a downtown used record store. Very sketchy. Naturally, my backpack has a small can of extreme strength pepper spray attached. Strong enough to down an enraged crackhead before he can club you for the money in your till, *definetly* strong enough to down any unwitting moron wanting my bike. Or anyone elses bike for that matter.

    Punishments against these thieves just aren't deterrents. You can get 5 years for booting someone's wireless connection illegally and checking your e-mail. Knowingly and systematically robbing people of transport/livelihood or joy?

    Nothing.

  16. #41
    jur
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    Punishment must fit the crime. To me the biggest challenge I can think of is, "Love your enemies, and do good to those who persecute you." Of course that does not mean that crimes should go unpunished. It does mean that you should not harbour hatred of a bike thief and shoot them if possible.

    We should consider the social system that produce such cases - the only difference between me and them is providence - an accident, if you will, of where and to what parents one was born.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by jur View Post
    Punishment must fit the crime. To me the biggest challenge I can think of is, "Love your enemies, and do good to those who persecute you." Of course that does not mean that crimes should go unpunished. It does mean that you should not harbour hatred of a bike thief and shoot them if possible.

    We should consider the social system that produce such cases - the only difference between me and them is providence - an accident, if you will, of where and to what parents one was born.
    Despite what i said earlier, I have to admit Jur is correct.

  18. #43
    Raleigh20 PugFixie, Merc LittlePixel's Avatar
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    I'd wave my hand enigmatically whilst calmly saying the words 'This isn't the bike you're looking for'

    Bikes are great. It's a shame when people nick 'em but sharing your fantasies of what you'd do to them if you caught the blighters doesn't make for very interesting reading. And all this talk of violence. Not. Cool.

    Let's talk about bikes. Not lamping villains about the head with a crowbar plz? Tinkyou!

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    Why don't you stop telling people what they should talk about? If you're too wimpy to use force to stop someome from ripping of your bike then too bad.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jur View Post
    Punishment must fit the crime. To me the biggest challenge I can think of is, "Love your enemies, and do good to those who persecute you."
    That is sick thinking. Would you love and forgive the guy who raped your wife too?

  21. #46
    Raleigh20 PugFixie, Merc LittlePixel's Avatar
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    [decides not to reply to yamcha's simplistic reasoning]

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    Quote Originally Posted by yamcha View Post
    Though you would probably have no choice, the police would take hours to get there and they really don't care about stolen bikes.
    Agree. Our finest took 27 min. to get out of the donut shop when a guy threated to kill me. I might take days to respond to a bike theft in progress.

    On kicking the guy's rear. If you have bike shoes with cleats you are at a big disadvantage. IF the theif has not ridden away, I think I would whip out my cell phone and flip up the camera. Then challenge the guy to have his picture stealing my bike given to the police and plastered all over the internet. Might work with out further conflict. Even if this worked I would call the cops. Just so the lazy sob's have to fill out a report.

  23. #48
    Bicycling Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by oilman_15106 View Post
    Agree. Our finest took 27 min. to get out of the donut shop when a guy threated to kill me. I might take days to respond to a bike theft in progress.

    On kicking the guy's rear. If you have bike shoes with cleats you are at a big disadvantage. IF the theif has not ridden away, I think I would whip out my cell phone and flip up the camera. Then challenge the guy to have his picture stealing my bike given to the police and plastered all over the internet. Might work with out further conflict. Even if this worked I would call the cops. Just so the lazy sob's have to fill out a report.
    He'd only take the phone as well - surely? If he could take the bike in your presence, he can take the phone as well.

    I applaud Jur's point above - if he can be so forgiving, he's a better person than me. However, I don't agree that the only difference between him and the rogue taking the bike is the providence of upbringing. Some theories of free will and determinism neglect the contribution of the individual to the way he is. It's true that a bad upbringing gives a person a bad start (obviously) but the deterministic view that such disadvantage is inescapable ignores the hordes of decently behaved citizens who rise above neglect and bad example to live decent lives. I've seen this over and over in life, and also the kid from a decent family who turns bad while his brothers and sister are solid citizens. Some people are just bad, and that's a fact; some people have a hard life and get into trouble, but none of the above is craved in stone. We are actors in our own drama; we make it up as we go along.

    I have a lot of sympathy for people inclined to take vigorous action against thieves and robbers because they know the police will not help them or bring any redress. That is an every day fact in urban Britain. The police are vehemently anti the public protecting themselves, but they virtually NEVER help expeditiously if you are in trouble over property crime.
    “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain

  24. #49
    jur
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilV View Post
    I applaud Jur's point above - if he can be so forgiving, he's a better person than me. However, I don't agree that the only difference between him and the rogue taking the bike is the providence of upbringing. Some theories of free will and determinism neglect the contribution of the individual to the way he is. It's true that a bad upbringing gives a person a bad start (obviously) but the deterministic view that such disadvantage is inescapable ignores the hordes of decently behaved citizens who rise above neglect and bad example to live decent lives. I've seen this over and over in life, and also the kid from a decent family who turns bad while his brothers and sister are solid citizens. Some people are just bad, and that's a fact; some people have a hard life and get into trouble, but none of the above is craved in stone. We are actors in our own drama; we make it up as we go along.
    Heh heh, we agree just about fully on all points. Including the providence one which I apparently put accross poorly.
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  25. #50
    Senior Member stevegor's Avatar
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    Well gentlemen,
    I can see that if one takes the law into one's own hand and for example knocks the bike thief on the head with an iron bar and maims or kills them, they will find themselves in deep poo, better to lose the bike than go there. However, trying to reason with pacifist pleadings with some of these criminals is downright foolish and dangerous, their whole attitude is obstinate and violent, they would bash you first then take your bike.
    So what would one do? My suggestion, silly as it may sound, would be to apply a surprise rugby/gridion tackle at full pace, flatten them, then quickly grab your bike and ride like hell outa there.

    BTW, I once learnt a life lesson observing a family of " hard done by" folk. Picture a very unattractive semi-obese cleaning lady hard at work where I was delivering Coca Cola, then enters an equally unattractive husband and kids, you know....they didn't look all there..up top. But when the kids saw MUM and their excitement to run to hug her.....I really learnt something that day.
    You don't need good looks, money and possessions to be successful in life, "All you need is love", makes you think, don't it?

    Thus endeth the sermon.

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