Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 54
  1. #1
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    My Bikes
    Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Do 48 hole cassette hubs exist?

    I'm still hunting for a low price Nexus 7 or 8, but I can't help thinking that another way to go with my 20 would be a cassette/derailleur thing, if I could find a suitable hub for a low enough cost. I don't even know if 48 hole cassette hubs exist though - does anyone else? The reason for the 48 is, of course, the stupid rims I bought, and the fact that indestructible wheels would be good.

  2. #2
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy View Post
    I'm still hunting for a low price Nexus 7 or 8, but I can't help thinking that another way to go with my 20 would be a cassette/derailleur thing, if I could find a suitable hub for a low enough cost. I don't even know if 48 hole cassette hubs exist though - does anyone else? The reason for the 48 is, of course, the stupid rims I bought, and the fact that indestructible wheels would be good.
    That sounds like a tandem hub. Check Phil Wood.

    Pumping up your tire will be difficult with that many spokes on a small wheel.

    -G

  3. #3
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    My Bikes
    Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't want a tandem hub - too expensive, and too wide across the OLN. It won't be that hard to pump the tyre up, remember 48 spoke wheels are very common on BMX's.

  4. #4
    On-One/Titus USA
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    PDX
    My Bikes
    Lots +1
    Posts
    146
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy View Post
    I don't want a tandem hub - too expensive, and too wide across the OLN. It won't be that hard to pump the tyre up, remember 48 spoke wheels are very common on BMX's.
    But multi-speed cassette hubs are not common in BMX.

    BTW check Soma for track bars
    titusti.com
    mtbtires.com
    Why I Ride Dropbars
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    746
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Shimano tandem hubs aren't as pricey as the others. All of the extra width is on the left side so you can reduce/eliminate dish. You can just remove axle spacers from the left side and shorten the axle.

    I had to figure this out as I recently built up a set of tandem wheels 40h Shimano hubs, butted spokes and Salsa Gordo rims. Now we've decided to sell the tandem, with the original cheap wheels. So I'll have a super tough set of wheels for a single.

    It might not be too hard to figure out spoke lengths to allow you to use 24 spokes on a 36 spoke hub. If you do go with 24, be sure to use two holes at the rim, then skip two and use two. Using every other hole doesn't work well.

  6. #6
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    My Bikes
    Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ok, now that's interesting. I know I can go 24 on a 36 hub, and that's what I'll do if I end up with a Nexus, I'm just examining the other opportunities. Thanks for the wheelbuilding advice though - I thought that was how it would have to go, but it's good to have it confirmed. I'm a complete wheelbuilding n00b.

    I also know that multi speed hubs are not common in BMX - that was more a response to the idea that it would be hard to pump up my tyres, which I just don't buy. Thanks also for the steer on the bars; the Soma ones aren't quite the profile I want, and since the bike is a 1940 HR Bates, I really want to find something more or less from the period, but I appreciate the help. I've seen a couple of sets on the Bay, but they go for more than I can afford (>$100 generally)

  7. #7
    Raleigh20 PugFixie, Merc LittlePixel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    London UK
    My Bikes
    1982 Raleigh Twenty Hotrod Fixie; 1984 Peugeot Premier Fixie, 2007 Merc Lightweight folder
    Posts
    1,963
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm beginning to think you might be better off selling the lovely rims on fleabay then getting ones you do want, anodising (or powder coating them red) yourself before building as normal. Despite my own evidence to the contrary - As a graphic designer by trade I am in fact a believer in 'form follows function' and it seems these rims are giving you a big headache because of their redness. If they were just untreated silver alloy would you still be looking at ways to fit a 48h hub? Just a thought. I'm sure those bling rims would sell for about what you paid for them...

  8. #8
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    My Bikes
    Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They'd probably sell for more, and I'd probably be better off, but you know what? Ain't happening

  9. #9
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy View Post
    I don't want a tandem hub - too expensive, and too wide across the OLN. It won't be that hard to pump the tyre up, remember 48 spoke wheels are very common on BMX's.
    But I thought that the flange on BMX hubs had smaller diameters. Anyway, I can tell you that with 32 spokes, space is fine but not plentiful.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    5,117
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You can get a 48 spoke touring hub from Phil wood in freewheel, that will give you better gearing than the nexus, more reliable also (nothing aginst nexus myself), for 120. The cassette version is going to cost you a lot. If you want to save money, certain DT hubs are a little cheaper, and possibly as good or better.

  11. #11
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    My Bikes
    Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The flange diameter doesn't have any effect on the hole spacing on the rim, so it doesn't affect tyre pumpupability, as far as I can see. How is a freewheel going to give me better gearing? Do you mean better in terms of wider? I'd be perfectly happy with freewheel rather than cassette, but my big preference is internal gears rather than a derailleur, due partly to the conditions it gets ridden in, but more due to the eminent kickability of a derailleur with the bike is crammed into a rack on a train. Those things are tight. Thankyou though, the Phil Wood merits consideration. Is that 120, or $120?

  12. #12
    rhm
    rhm is offline
    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NJ, NYC, LI
    My Bikes
    1940s Fothergill, 1948 Raleigh Record Ace, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1972 Fuji Finest, 1983 Trek 720, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
    Posts
    12,717
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Here in NYC I have definitely seen derailleur bikes with 48-spoke rear wheels; whether that's by freewheel or cassette, however, I won't speculate.
    Can you get a 24-hole hub and drill some more holes? I doubt there'll be room on most modern (small-flange) hubs.
    Can you thread a freewheel on a BMX hub? I know it'll be too wide, but if the threads are the same, try that; then mess around with (probably: replace) the axle, and you may have something that works.

  13. #13
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy View Post
    The flange diameter doesn't have any effect on the hole spacing on the rim, so it doesn't affect tyre pumpupability, as far as I can see.
    It should affect the angle that the spokes take to the nipples which will change where the spokes cross. I just saw a Bike Friday tandem with a 36 spoke 406 wheel last night and the owner complained about accessing the presta valve. He said that it was doable but a pain in the butt. The paint on the head of my bike pump has been scraped off from rubbing against the side of the spokes on my 32-spoke wheel. Mind you, there is a lever on the side that directs the air to a presta or schraeder connection, so it is a bit wider than your typical bike pump.

    Anyway, I have never seen a 48-spoke BMX wheel but I have heard of them. Given they exist, I am sure that you will still be able to access the value to pump in air. However, I gather from the experience of others and posts on the YAK group that it will be cluttered down there making it a pain.

    Would a 32-hole hub work with the 48-hole rim with the same pattern as the 24-hole hub with a 36-hole rim? 32-hole hubs are pretty easy to find.

  14. #14
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    My Bikes
    Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't know. I'm watching a brand new Nexus 7 on eBay, and if I buy that, all such discussions will become moot. Then it'll all be down to "Do I lace this a weird way, or just buy an alternate rear rim". The jury is out on that one.

  15. #15
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy View Post
    I don't know. I'm watching a brand new Nexus 7 on eBay, and if I buy that, all such discussions will become moot. Then it'll all be down to "Do I lace this a weird way, or just buy an alternate rear rim". The jury is out on that one.
    Yeah ... but talking about it is still fun.

    If you like, I can try to take some detailed pics of my wife's Pocket Crusoe with the 24-to-36 combination.

  16. #16
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    My Bikes
    Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'd love to see that. I still feel like if I sat down and thought about it, 36 spokes into 48 holes ought to be doable, but I've not, until now, been a wheelbuilder. It just seems like you'd do two pairs, then miss a pair. Wouldn't you?

  17. #17
    rhm
    rhm is offline
    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NJ, NYC, LI
    My Bikes
    1940s Fothergill, 1948 Raleigh Record Ace, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1972 Fuji Finest, 1983 Trek 720, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
    Posts
    12,717
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy View Post
    ... 36 spokes into 48 holes ought to be doable.... It just seems like you'd do two pairs, then miss a pair. Wouldn't you?
    No, I don't think so. It would work with a 32 spoke hub provided the spoke holes are centered on the rim. If you have right side holes and left side holes, you'll have some spokes going from the right flange to the left side of the rim, which may make things weird.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    746
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    No, I don't think so. It would work with a 32 spoke hub provided the spoke holes are centered on the rim. If you have right side holes and left side holes, you'll have some spokes going from the right flange to the left side of the rim, which may make things weird.
    If he used and skipped in pairs, the spoke holes in the rim would all be angled correctly. However there will be several different spoke lengths needed.

    You are right about right spokes going into left rim holes being a problem though. I made two otherwise identical 18 hole recumbent wheels. One skipping every other hole in the rim and one skipping every other pair. The one with every other hole skipped started braking spokes after one season. The other one lasted 15 years.

    If I was going to use a 48h cassette hub and rim on an R20 I'd remove all the spacers from the left side and end up with plenty of dish but not have to spread the frame much, if at all. Then I'd use 36 spokes, 24 x2 on the right and 12 radial on the left.

    Sammy,
    If you do get the Nexus hub. there is plenty of room between spoke holes to drill a few more and end up with 12 evenly spaced holes on each side and 12 unused ones.
    Last edited by MnHPVA Guy; 10-22-07 at 03:44 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    746
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    It should affect the angle that the spokes take to the nipples which will change where the spokes cross. I just saw a Bike Friday tandem with a 36 spoke 406 wheel last night and the owner complained about accessing the presta valve. He said that it was doable but a pain in the butt.
    He shouldn't have had a problem unless the wheel was laced incorrectly. The spokes adjacent to the valve hole should leave the rim roughly parallel when viewed from the side. If they cross each other, someone screwed up.

  20. #20
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    My Bikes
    Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MnHPVA Guy View Post

    Sammy,
    If you do get the Nexus hub. there is plenty of room between spoke holes to drill a few more and end up with 12 evenly spaced holes on each side and 12 unused ones.
    Hmmm. Reckon I could drill it so that I could build with all 48? I do have access to a Bridgeport mill, so I could do this really accurately.

  21. #21
    rhm
    rhm is offline
    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NJ, NYC, LI
    My Bikes
    1940s Fothergill, 1948 Raleigh Record Ace, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1972 Fuji Finest, 1983 Trek 720, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
    Posts
    12,717
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy View Post
    Hmmm. Reckon I could drill it so that I could build with all 48? I do have access to a Bridgeport mill, so I could do this really accurately.
    Even if there's room for them, you just have to be sure the extra holes aren't going to catastrophically weaken the flange; drilling extra holes is bound to impact the warranty, after all, and Nexus hubes aren't cheap.

    If you can use a mill... can you make a whole extra flange? I'm thinking, make a ring of steel or aluminum with the right diameters, with one ring 18 threaded holes to bolt on to the spoke holes of your Shimano cassette hub, and another ring of 24 holes a little farther out? It would have to attach to the outside of the existing flange....

  22. #22
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    My Bikes
    Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's an idea. This Nexus hub, however, will be cheap. Or rather, I'm anticipating getting a cheap one, and I'm not anticipating it coming with any warranty.

  23. #23
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MnHPVA Guy View Post
    He shouldn't have had a problem unless the wheel was laced incorrectly. The spokes adjacent to the valve hole should leave the rim roughly parallel when viewed from the side. If they cross each other, someone screwed up.
    Yep. I just double checked my ERTO 305 wheel with an internal hub. If there is no issue there, I have a hard time believing that there would be an issue with a 451 wheel.

    -G


  24. #24
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy View Post
    I'd love to see that. I still feel like if I sat down and thought about it, 36 spokes into 48 holes ought to be doable, but I've not, until now, been a wheelbuilder. It just seems like you'd do two pairs, then miss a pair. Wouldn't you?
    These are older pictures that are a tad out of focus. I can take more with finer detail if interested.

    I look at the pattern as a group of three. From the drive side of the hub and moving clockwise, first spoke leads, open hole, third spoke follows. All of the spokes are the same size.




  25. #25
    rhm
    rhm is offline
    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NJ, NYC, LI
    My Bikes
    1940s Fothergill, 1948 Raleigh Record Ace, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1972 Fuji Finest, 1983 Trek 720, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
    Posts
    12,717
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    ... I have a hard time believing that there would be an issue with a 451 wheel....
    Me too. I built up a pair of 349 wheels with 36 hole rims, and there is no problem there. Someone gave my son a bike with 405 rims and 68 (!) spokes. Now that's a serious pain in the you-know-what.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •