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  1. #26
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    I see both sides. In defense of Brommy. I really love the Brompton idea of: A bike for life, if it works great do not fix it or break it only tweak it slightly to improve it over the years. The Brommy is probably the most tested and true folder on the planet. Thousands on commuters rely on it a every day and some very ambitious tours have been completed on it. Very few issues at all have been found to be lacking in the design and the materials and almost none have not been corrected by B. in the end.

    Even if this patent of Dahon comes to pass i think it very likely that the Brommy will still outshine Dahon in areas that for the casual cyclist mean little but for me mean a great deal:

    Steel!!! It is real! (sorry couldn't resist) but steel on a long as heck seat post, handlebar and frame that takes a lot of strain since it is a special shape makes a huge difference. Which brings me to the second advantage which i already mentioned, that weight, steel and simplicity means:

    The Brommy is a bike for life, most Dahon's (especially Alu) have not been around that long but i imagine they are good for 5 to 15 years tops. Hey i will gladly pay twice if a bike can easily last twice as long and the weight penalty is fine by me too, it buys me security (things won't suddenly snap on a Brommy) and durability.

    The one thing i really begrudge Brommy is that they do not even offer as an option V-Brake bosses, that i think is just bordering on inexcusable. Sure their breaks work decent with great pads but adding the bosses as an option would not be a big deal and greatly appreciated by many. They have so many custom options but the one option that would really improve functionality and safety!! is not there, bad call.

    As for price, well i think the Brommy does deliver value for money. I also realize they pair a fair wage to people employed in good conditions and i love supporting that. But if they wanted to easily cater to customers with less cash without creating a huge headache or adding a lot of hassle to their operation they could simply offer kits as an option! I mean i would very gladly assemble my own Brommy if it meant i could save 20% or more on the purchase price. How hard could it be to write a really great manual, dump the parts in a box and mail them to customers that like tinkering. Surely not harder than assembling all these bikes themselves and slowly but inexorably being left behind by the competition and knock offs.

    Maybe we should start an on line petition!!?

    On the other hand, sometimes i also think we are spoiled. No offense intended but faster fold? Come on it would be great if it happened but if 3 seconds annoy you or make you feel stressed it is perhaps time to re evaluate your priorities.

    20 inch option would be great but it is nigh on impossible to then have a bike with the same folded size, unless one wants to settle for a terrible ride quality due to inadequate wheelbase.
    http://www.rhizomes.nl/twenty.html
    My Tweaked and modded Raleigh Twenty. Lots of pictures and lots of general info on for example a different & Cheap Bottom Bracket solution as well as fork solution.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by v1nce View Post
    I see both sides. In defense of Brommy. I really love the Brompton idea of: A bike for life, if it works great do not fix it or break it only tweak it slightly to improve it over the years. The Brommy is probably the most tested and true folder on the planet. Thousands on commuters rely on it a every day and some very ambitious tours have been completed on it. Very few issues at all have been found to be lacking in the design and the materials and almost none have not been corrected by B. in the end...
    This is one of the things that Brompton and Dahon has branched out. Dahon chose growth and innovation to greatly or vastly improve thier models every year. If a model bites the dust, so be it since it no longer reflects the latest or the newest gizmo component or accessory. I bought the Piccolo during it's last year it was made before it was dumped in favor of the Curve. A proven steel frame model with several years of ironing out the bugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by v1nce View Post
    ....Even if this patent of Dahon comes to pass i think it very likely that the Brommy will still outshine Dahon in areas that for the casual cyclist mean little but for me mean a great deal:

    Steel!!! It is real! (sorry couldn't resist) but steel on a long as heck seat post, handlebar and frame that takes a lot of strain since it is a special shape makes a huge difference. Which brings me to the second advantage which i already mentioned, that weight, steel and simplicity means:

    The Brommy is a bike for life, most Dahon's (especially Alu) have not been around that long but i imagine they are good for 5 to 15 years tops. Hey i will gladly pay twice if a bike can easily last twice as long and the weight penalty is fine by me too, it buys me security (things won't suddenly snap on a Brommy) and durability.

    The one thing i really begrudge Brommy is that they do not even offer as an option V-Brake bosses, that i think is just bordering on inexcusable. Sure their breaks work decent with great pads but adding the bosses as an option would not be a big deal and greatly appreciated by many. They have so many custom options but the one option that would really improve functionality and safety!! is not there, bad call.

    As for price, well i think the Brommy does deliver value for money. I also realize they pair a fair wage to people employed in good conditions and i love supporting that. But if they wanted to easily cater to customers with less cash without creating a huge headache or adding a lot of hassle to their operation they could simply offer kits as an option! I mean i would very gladly assemble my own Brommy if it meant i could save 20% or more on the purchase price. How hard could it be to write a really great manual, dump the parts in a box and mail them to customers that like tinkering. Surely not harder than assembling all these bikes themselves and slowly but inexorably being left behind by the competition and knock offs.

    Maybe we should start an on line petition!!?

    On the other hand, sometimes i also think we are spoiled. No offense intended but faster fold? Come on it would be great if it happened but if 3 seconds annoy you or make you feel stressed it is perhaps time to re evaluate your priorities.

    20 inch option would be great but it is nigh on impossible to then have a bike with the same folded size, unless one wants to settle for a terrible ride quality due to inadequate wheelbase.
    I chose the simplest C type for my Brompton since it reflects just as you outlined above. And the value for the money I paid for it (in spite of it being rather inflated over here) outshines whatever feature it seems to lack like the updated V Brakes or it's bosses. As for kits, I am limited in time and mechanical abilty and prefer to have a bike mechanic check it for me from time to time. After the first two months of ownership, that means about once a year for the annual tune-up then that's it. And 20 inch wheels are nice if you have the storage space for them.

  3. #28
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    Call me old fashioned , but I quite like trying to buy things made in Europe/ USA & I hope that this bike doesn't kill off one of the few bikes still made in said area

  4. #29
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    Good to hear i am not the only one really disappointed that Dahon has all but ceased to produce steel frames in favor of Alu. I do not know if this was just a bad call (they should have at least kept producing a few more tried and tested steel models alongside the slew of alu) on their part or something far more sinister like a conscious choice to build in planned obsolescence... Either way i think it sucks. Pity.
    http://www.rhizomes.nl/twenty.html
    My Tweaked and modded Raleigh Twenty. Lots of pictures and lots of general info on for example a different & Cheap Bottom Bracket solution as well as fork solution.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmcanulty View Post
    Here is a link to the full doc
    http://www.littlepixel.info/twenty/pdfdoc_unlocked.pdf
    Also I am pasting in an email I sent to Pacific Cycles and their reply, quite informative. Note, reply is 1st, then my inquiries.
    Our upcoming 20" Reach Racer will be equipped with the Swivel-Head folding technology, which makes the bike folding in less than 5 seconds and you can pull it like a troller into the building to avoid theft.

    However to fit the airline approved size, you need to detach both front and rear wheels, fold the frame and put them all in a carrying bag.

    The Racer version is designed specifically for pure performance, therefore panniers and mudguards are excluded but you can find them on the Trekking and Offroad models.

    The gear ratio of the Racer version is racing oriented, but still achieves a wide range of 30"-117".

    Unlike the mass production throwable bikes, all bikes by Pacific including Reach Racer are true gems. They take years from scratch to finish, fully hand-made, countless hours devoted, deserve its price.

    Best regards,
    Max Yeh
    Pacific Cycles Inc.



    Date: 2007/10/27 [FONT='新細明體','serif']下午[/font] 11:10:19
    Name: Carol McAnulty
    Company:
    email: cmcanulty@hotmail.com

    Content:
    I read the Bicycle Trade news release of Oct 18, 07 and am very excited about a new folding bike design. Here is what I think is very important to be done on it. For the 20" size (the largest practical size to pack in an airline approved size (max 62" girth and max 50lbs) what is needed is easy and quick folding, with room to spare as the airlines will inevitably lower the allowed size eventually, a wide range of gears so it can be ridden in all areas (I would like 20" to 100" gear range), fenders , rear rack and capability to add either front rack for panniers or some other way to carry gear on front, chain guard for clothes, light weight, available in suspension or without, a price that isn't so high that you are afraid to leave it locked in a city maybe around $500 US, standard parts for the main drivetrain, hubs etc for ease of service, choice of colors , tire width choice for city or off road customers. Then I and many others will buy! There is no 20" bike sold now that fits in a suitcase without a lo of disassembly and no 16" with a wide gear range. If you have time please let me know what you think of these ideas and when the bikes will be available. People will pay a decent price if they can get a truly travel able bike that is also a versatile machine. Thank you, Carol McAnulty
    Thanks for this information. This might be just the bike I'm looking for. I think I'll have to test ride it when it comes out in 2008.

    BTW, the folded dabrom kinda reminds me of the R&M Frog.

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