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Old 12-09-07, 04:44 PM   #1
alecw35
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Bsa 20

Is just a Raleigh 20

I was given it as well as an RSW and some other shopper style bike.

I thought of ripping the Strumey Archer AG hub for my Grifter Custom. The Hub is 28 spoke..not 40 like my other AGs. So could build it into a 20X175 alloy rim I have.
But I thought look around to see if theres anyone else messing with these bikes. Ive seen Sheldon Brown. But this has more bikes on it.



Ive had the rear wheel to bits. Built it back to the 451. They are rusty and dented. Does anyone know the spoke lengths to build an AG into a 406 rim? Have to figure out how to work a spoke calculator.

Ive stripped the components off. Cut off the stand mount with my grinder...set the smoke detector off twice The frames sitting in my room now. Is going to work tommorow so I can recut the BB.

Thinking of fitting a 52 36 sakae crank Ive got. With gear mechs so its six speed. Got similar on my Lil Blue Bike.

Also might cut the headstock down so can fit modern forks. Suspension ones.
Got an extension tube for fitting on a stem. So the bars will be high enough.
I might put the brake on the chainstays. As that will mean lower centre of gravity, shorter cable and less chance of the cable rusting up.

Yeah I know its not a folder....cosmic supply doesnt deliver the right things sometimes
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Old 12-09-07, 05:22 PM   #2
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Talk to Stevegor, he's done some work on non-folding R20s and I hate him for it.
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Old 12-09-07, 07:00 PM   #3
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Yes a BSA Twenty is a Raleigh Twenty. Raleigh bought up a lot of smaller manufacturers in the mid-century and then released 'badge' engineered' versions of popular models that suited the 'brand'. So some were more sporty, some economy and some more deluxe, going under the names of Sun, Triumph, Rudge, BSA and Phillips, much like VW markets Seat as 'sporty', Audi as 'premium', Sköda as 'economy', VW as 'family'...

(edit) Oops I just realised that you weren't asking but merely stating. Sorry bout that (/edit)

This is probably one of the best places to talk to Twenty heads - many users on here are Twenty-heads including myself, Cheg, Stevegor, V1nce, easy_racer, Jur, sammyboy (sorry those I've missed). Oh and Sheldon pops his head round the door here every once in while too!

Best thing to do with spokes is use an online calculator - you just need to feed in the various dimensions and how many crosses you plan to have in the spokes and it should do the rest.
DT Swiss - the spokemaker has a good one:
http://www.dtswiss.com/SpokesCalc/We...px?language=en

Brakes on chainstay is an inspired idea - will make for a more elegant rear that's for sure.

Links to my R20 site are in the footer plus I have a fledgling wiki set up here as well ; it's somewhat incomplete right now but may have something of interest if only links to other resources.

Have fun with the resto/conversion!
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Old 12-10-07, 03:20 PM   #4
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I recut the BB shell to take standard cups. Going to narrow the shell too.

I seen in a BMX paper 10 years ago, about putting centrepull brakes on the chainstay bridge. Lots of modern BMXs have them there now. One of my RSWs has a Delta style centrepull brake under the chainstays. I got a brake bridge welded to my Grifter. Heres a pic of the brake on it



Have to get round to finishing it.

Oh yeah. My other RSW has a S3B rear drum brake hub. It might get used on something else
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Old 12-16-07, 03:49 PM   #5
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I narrowed the BB shell today. I cut near the twin tubes, with a hacksaw. Didnt want to set the smoke detector off again, by using the angle grinder. I had re threaded the BB shell as far as the tool would. So I screwed in right in an old BB cup. One with pin holes in it, a completely flat face.


I then cut the shell. Squint...doh.
I screwed the BB cup to the lowest point. Then filed the shell so the cup was flush with the shell. I dont have a frame facing tool at work....anymore.
I did the other side by putting in a cup..then seeing the bit that needed filed.
I was wanting it to be 68mm wide. But my wonky cutting meant its now 65mm.

I dented the chainstay, so theres a bit of clearance for the inner chain ring


The BB axle is 118mm. Its a normal cup and cone one. Ive got lots of old bikes and bits.
Just looked in a box for it. The cranks are 52 42 steel rings on alloy arms. There ok. Might fit other ones to it instead



I can get my finger between the frame and the chainstay. Theres about 5mm gap between the inner ring and stay.

Ive put the alloys from my 3 speed BMX. Ive stripped it down. My road is kinda bumpy!!


I may fit suspension forks. I measured the standard ones. There about 31cm drop out to crown. The suspension forks are about 35cm. But the 406 wheels are smaller. Do I cut the top of the head stock. Or the bottom and top of it. As the new forks have a shorter steerer. But want clearance for the cranks. But not comedy steering angles
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Old 12-17-07, 09:52 AM   #6
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Hi Alexw35...

I recently completed my R20 project.
It has the Nexus 8 rear hub.
I have been contemplating adding a 2nd ring to the front, but not sure if a deraileur would work up front.
However, I see that you have 2 rings on the front of your R20.
What type of front deraileur are you considering using with your 2 ring front setup?
My thoughts were that a front deraileur may not work, thinking that there may not be enough real estate on the seat tube to mount it, considering the location of where the down tube meets the seat tube.
Maybe I need to take a closer look at that.
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Old 12-17-07, 04:15 PM   #7
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Oh got a topswing front mech.. think there really ugly
but what can you do.

I did get a campag front mech from ebay. But its a braze on. I got a adaptor. But it dont fit that campag mech....GRRRR. Sent the adaptor back which was nice of me...he didnt send my money though...GRRRR.

Think there might be enough room for a normal front mech.

But dont think there will be that much space on my RSW. So it may have to be a single ring on it
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Old 12-19-07, 02:29 PM   #8
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I was off today so did some more work to it.
I thought will I cut the headstock on the top and bottom So the frame will be at the right height. But the suspension forks are a little longer than needed. They will compress when I get on it. Be the same height. So I cut the top of the headstock. Means I cant fit a head badge...boo hoo. But the neat stacked rifles badge it had....was scored, as the bar bag support was resting on it.
I removed the steering lock stop half moon thing too.
I put a longer axle in my alloy front wheel. Dont know how it fitted in the BMX forks it was in before.

I looked for my stem extension thing. Couldnt find it. Put a SR stumpneck on it. With Bull bars.

Fitted the cables in the frame...so fiddly.

put a Weimmann 1080 rear caliper on it. I polished it up

I fitted the chain. Strangely it only needed 2 or 3 links took out to fit it on the 42 tooth ring.
It cant get first gear as the trigger hits the brake lever bracket. Can triggers be used on straight bars??
Its very tough to pedal in second. Might need a look in the hub

Heres a very dark picture of it. Camera wouldnt flash properly, so took it on my phone.
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Old 12-19-07, 02:57 PM   #9
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Looking good! Got any more info on fitting the cables? I have a non-folding frame in shed awaiting a revival at some point and do wonder about refitting the internal routing.

Last edited by LittlePixel; 12-19-07 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 12-19-07, 03:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittlePixel View Post
Looking good! Got any more info on fitting the cables? I have a non-folding frame in shed awaiting a revival at some point and am do wonder about refitting the internal routing.

Huw,
Weld over the holes and put on cable eyelets..like on the Wasp...it's easier.

Last edited by stevegor; 12-19-07 at 04:59 PM. Reason: mistake
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Old 12-20-07, 06:07 PM   #11
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I put the inner wire in from the front. Then put a spoke in the hole at the other end. Try to catch the wire with the spoke head.

But the holes in the older Raleigh frames are quite wee.

Bikes like Raleigh Max have longer holes.

I slotted my Raleigh Denim that I chopped so the 2 holes were made into one.
Easier to get the wires out
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Old 12-20-07, 06:12 PM   #12
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I welded up the holes on my grifter

Gonna run the cables on the down tubes


might do cable stops...adjusters on there
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Old 12-21-07, 09:38 AM   #13
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This is coming along very well.

Wish I can weld and braze.

sigh...

I have so many ideas, but, they involve brazing and welding.

Great stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alecw35 View Post
I welded up the holes on my grifter

Gonna run the cables on the down tubes


might do cable stops...adjusters on there
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Old 12-22-07, 01:57 AM   #14
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oh not very good at welding wont do structural work.

but cable stops are ok.

welded cable stops to my Raleigh phaser 70s kids roadster with 24" wheels turned it into a mountain bike.

Heres a pic of Gold bike.


I welded the stops onto downtube and chain stay. It was single speed when I got it 18 speed now.
Got suspension forks and aero rims on it. Had one of these as a kid. Had BMX parts on it way back then. Going to put BMX parts on my other Phaser.

Im thinking of getting a MIG welder. As only have a Arc welder. My shop sells tools like that.

Last edited by alecw35; 12-22-07 at 02:01 AM. Reason: picture to big
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Old 12-27-07, 01:49 PM   #15
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Oh been looking for bits for my BSA 20
Got loads of boxes of bits...too much stuff too little time.
I looked for the cantilever brake arms that Im going to fit on the front.
Im wanting the one of my old black MTB. Nothing special.
But Id polished them up allready. Got the other brake from it, on my gold bike.
So I polished up similar brake arms. Oh hate doing that....Im a grey colour now..
Polished up a side stand too.
I found the handle bar stem riser tube. I got it on a dump find MTB. Took it off and sold the MTB..
Fitted that into the forks. Its about 8" long so the stem is about 6 " higher.
Fitted the cast alloy stem from my old black MTB.
With a Specialized alloy bars, oh actually paid for them....cost £1 at a car boot sale.
Much better riding position. The bars are at 36" from the ground
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Old 01-04-08, 06:26 PM   #16
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hey boss was moving tyres in the warehouse

some old ones New old Stock if you like

20 X 1/38 451.

and a 24 X 175

I asked if I could have them

He looked on computer......
There £1 and £1.66 but I get 15% off that price.

Ok so Im using 406 tyre on this bike...but 2 other bikes use 451.

Gold bike and silver bike have 24" wheels.....like that size
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Old 01-04-08, 06:27 PM   #17
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hey boss was moving tyres in the warehouse

some old ones New old Stock if you like

20 X 1/38 451.

and a 24 X 175

I asked if I could have them

He looked on computer......
There £1 and £1.66 but I get 15% off that price.

Ok so Im using 406 tyre on this bike...but 2 other bikes use 451.

Gold bike and silver bike have 24" wheels.....like that size
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Old 01-04-08, 07:14 PM   #18
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If you were in the states, I would be ALL OVER those. I am running 451's on at least one of my R-20's and its slim pickings over in these parts. If anyone knows of any good 451 tire deals let me know Rims too... I would love to get some that are colored, but beggers cant be choosers...

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Old 01-05-08, 01:05 AM   #19
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best range of 451s in the US I've seen are on Bike Friday's site - whether the prices are so good is harder to tell but it's a good site to compare and contrast. Then when you know what you want you can always try the local stockist of whatever brand you settled on and see if they can get in on order for you.

I think Twenty's look special on 451s - it fit's their proportions that bit better...
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Old 01-06-08, 05:14 AM   #20
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oh the tyres Im getting are just cheap ones.
The 451 is a Vee Rubber tyre a roadster tread. With reflective band on sidewall.

Probably was only £7....not a fancy lightwweight tyre
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Old 01-06-08, 05:25 AM   #21
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Ive been polishing brakes for the 20.

On hate doing that.
Got a Dremel...well the one in Aldi supermarket.
Was getting the rough bits off the brake parts with the sanding drum
But still had to spend ages wet and dry sanding them.

Did a Weimman 750 centre pull brake. Gonna mount that on the chainstays

And did a cantilever brake for the front.

Im thinking of getting another Bench Grinder. The one I have, one of the grinding wheels broke.
So use that with polishing mops instead. So hopefully it wont take so long to polish things.
Got the rims and other parts to polish.
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Old 01-06-08, 12:17 PM   #22
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I've found polishing alloy calipers with a rag and some Brasso™ works pretty well.
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Old 01-07-08, 02:59 PM   #23
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yeah Ive tried Brasso, autosol, Duraglit...

They look ok if I scrub them with Brillo pads, in hot soapy water. My fingers are actually clean after that...well cleaner..

But my bike bits are old and corroded and damaged.
So I file off the casting marks and the dents.
then sand that flat...and the corroded bits

Then in the soapy water to wet and dry and brillo pad them.

But Im a man so cant with stand the allure of power tools.

Got a new Bench Grinder from B and Q so gonna get polishing mops for it.

Got loads of stuff to polish.
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Old 01-07-08, 04:46 PM   #24
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Chromed parts are much easier to restore by soaking for a short while in rust remover. Makes them look like new.
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Old 01-08-08, 09:10 AM   #25
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If one has found a nice bike, but has years of dirt baked on it, hiding the original colour of the paint in a type of "haze" (for lack of a better description), by lightly rubbing down the finish with Brasso will, for the most part, bring back that bright original paint colour.

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I've found polishing alloy calipers with a rag and some Brasso™ works pretty well.
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