vik 

+ 1 - good work Bike Forums CSI team members...

Foldable Two

Folder Fanatic is right. Personal property theft, even automobiles, is just a "fill out a form on the internet" crime in the Big City.

Turning it over to the police will just result in it sitting in the Berkley PD property room for a year or two, assuming they would choose to prosecute. Pretty hard to prove this guy did it, unless there are witnesses or security camera video.

In any event, if this is his bike, there will be no pay-off by the Ins Co.(s), so might be best to make an arrangement to get it back if he wants to be able to ride it again any time soon.

Will be interesting to hear what does happen.

spambait11

Assuming the OP was not a dunce and did file a police report, it would not matter if it sat in BPD, OPD, or even SLPD. The point is that when the OP returns from wherever he went, he can go to a PD and pick up his bike. The guy who bought the bike from the "flea market" should not be rewarded in any case; people who buy stolen property are RARELY reimbursed for their trouble, and if you ask me, it serves them right for buying it in the first place. Besides, "Bill" did his research, knows what a tikit is, knows the original price, and is/was willing to sell the bike for a profit before even checking if it was stolen, although "acknowledging" it might have been. What does he have to work out with the OP? Just give it back.

I think Bike Friday went above and beyond on this one. The rest is in the OP's court, but he seems pretty nonchalant, esp. when he found out his insurance is willing to cover it. If he was depending on insurance to begin with, why bother anyone about his stolen bike?

spambait11

Fat Boy's watched too much A-Team.

Bacciagalupe

Craigslist is far, far more traceable than a for-cash sale at a flea market or off the back of a truck. So I see it as quite likely that the CL lister did get it from a flea market, and decided to flip it. Why else would he list his name and phone #?


Well, that's a bit one-sided.....

You have no evidence whatsoever to indicate he knowingly received stolen property and, in doing so, intended to aid the thief. If he flatly refuses to turn over the bike when presented with evidence it was stolen, he could be charged; but it's pretty clear that is not the case here.

I don't know of any way to distinguish a "stolen bike" from a "used bike" just by looking at it. Do you? How would a non-cyclist know? Or should we all just assume that any outlet for used bikes (including Craigslist) is, in fact, an outlet for stolen merchandise?

As to what he needs to "work out," the CL lister is out at least some cash for the "crime" of buying a used bike and selling it. He's already willing to work things out and turn over the bike to the original owner, so there really is no reason to turn over the bike to the police. If I was in the CL lister's position, I'd definitely want to see a police report and evidence of ownership.

What "keeps people stealing bikes" is that it takes 30 seconds to steal a bike, that most bike thefts are not felonies, that most bikes are generic enough to make recovery difficult, and the police aren't putting a lot of resources into bike theft. Throwing the book at someone like the CL lister would make it significantly more difficult for anyone to get their bike recovered.

Even if the original owner is asked to shell out a few bucks, he should be glad he's getting his bike back.


By the way, you can't always predict where your bike will be "welcome." If you have a snazzy bike that you expect to leave outside, you might want to record your bike's Serial # (e.g. take a photo) and use the National Bike Registry ( https://www.nationalbikeregistry.com/ ) as well.

vik 

Guys, guys...let's not second guess stuff we aren't privy to. We helped someone find their stolen bike. Let's just be happy for that and hope if we are ever in the same situation someone helps us out. Trying to figure out people's motives and/or what they are or are not doing based on a few posts by third parties to an internet forum is waste of energy.

spambait11

No, it's not one-sided. You just don't read well enough.

vik posted above that when Bike Friday contact the seller, the seller acknowledged that it could be stolen. But, come on: even if he's not going to admit it, you think given the price, condition, etc. that's it's not? Even he knows, as you write -


Again, you didn't read well enough. I think Bike Friday already convinced him it was stolen, otherwise why would he want to work anything out? If it was NOT stolen and he had legitimate property, what is there to work out?


Care to admit anything you've done in the (recent) past?

Again, if this was a legitimate bike, he probably would not be so accommodating to Bike Friday's request.


No, the buyer needs no payment. You see, the buyer was going to sell it for profit; he just got caught. When he got caught, he was willing to plea bargain. My opinion is, "screw him." Yours, obviously, differs.

Now, there are legitimate people on craigstlist. They will openly say "Hey, I found a nice bike at such and such flea market. I have a feeling it's stolen. If you can describe it or give proof it's yours, email me and I'll let you have it back from what I ransomed it for. Otherwise I'm keeping it." It is clear, in this case, that was NOT the buyer's intention.


That has yet to be shown.


It's easier for everyone: erase the police report; promise not to file charges; go to a legitimate place to pick up the bike instead of some San Leandro ghetto, etc.


We agree here. But given how "Bill" has handled the situation so far, he knows what he has is hot.


OK, but what also keeps people stealing bikes is that they always find buyers. In the Bay Area, everyone is so lazy. It's easier for them to say "OK OK I'll give you 'reward' money, just give it back." I wish people would just say "Just give it back. End of story." To a certain extent, we here do exacerbate our own problems.


The lazy mentality, but yeah, you're right. I would. Save my insurance rates or whatever from going higher.


Good advice. But this should be in the "Owning a Folding Bike 101" category: plan to spend extra money on a bag you can carry it in. You'll save yourself a ton of trouble down the road.

spambait11

Yeah but it's too easy.

SingleSpeeDemon

So here's a question. Let's say you came across a deal like this at a flea market and you were almost certain it was stolen, would you buy it in hope of finding its rightful owner? Does buying property which you believe may be stolen with the intent of returning it to its owner make you a criminal? If you instead called the police, what good would it do?

In this case, it looks like the work of the BF members did a great service in helping the owner become reunited with his bike but things rarely work out so well.

I know that if I had the opportunity to buy this bike at a flea market, my wallet would spring open against my better judgement just because I know it is such an incredible machine, but with the lingering thoughts of theft in my mind, I would follow my conscience and try to find the rightful owner. I know about receiving stolen property being a crime, but I know how I would feel if I had a bike like the Tikit stolen from me.

What a dilemma! Hopefully, the case will be resolved and the owner can once again enjoy his bike.

werewolf

In this case, it looks like the work of the BF members did a great service in helping the owner become reunited with his bike ...

____________________


WAS it his bike? Where's the follow-up to this soap opera?

vik 

Yes it was his bike and he's taking things from here. I don't know Eric personally I'm just passing on what I hear via others through email. I'm sure he is very appreciative of the help he has rec'd, but I don't think he'll be writing any kind of screen play for us to post online.

Thanks to everyone that helped out. Finding a stolen bike for someone is a great way to end 2007....

SesameCrunch

Happy ending to 2007!

Dahon.Steve

I wonder how much Eric is going to give him? The new seller probably paid money for this bike and will want to be compensated. He may very well be the crook and it could be a dangerous situation.

Eric has to be very careful with this because the new seller can turn around and say it was all a joke if he's not given any money. He can also say he never saw the bike or someone else had it and sold the bike without his permission. In short, until the bike is in Eric's hands, he's walking on thin ice.

The police can get involved but the seller can say, I never listed the bike, it wasn't my ad listed, I never spoke with Eric.

Foldable Two

If he has a tikit with the same serial number on it that was sold to Eric - the possessor is on thin ice!

If he is the thief (or even if he is not) he may have a record, and would rather resolve the situation as easily as possible without the police.

Lots of possible variables here.

Sounds like Starbucks might be a good place to meet.....lol

SingleSpeeDemon

We could all meet at Starbucks to further discuss this drama. I'd go for that.

Bacciagalupe

It is not legal to purchase property that you know is stolen with the intent of returning it to its rightful owner.

The odds of you getting prosecuted are minute. But yes, purchasing a stolen item is a violation of the law.


Anyway..... Let's assume for the moment that Bill is not a fence. He goes to the flea market, sees a weird bike in excellent condition, shells out $150 for it, takes it home and finds out it is worth $1500.

He puts a listing on CL that says "I picked up this bike for a song at a flea market, I suspect it's hot, if you had a bike like this stolen from you then contact me." Per S11's comments, it is a) impractical and/or encouraging more theft to reimburse Bill; b) if Bill asks for compensation, this is unethical and a clear sign that Bill is a thief or fence; c) technically, Bill is violating the law, and is not protected even if his intent is to return the bike to its rightful owner.

(This is, of course, aside from S11's willingness to jail someone based on 3rd- and 4th-hand reports. )

While it is unlikely that Bill would be prosecuted, the victim could easily demand the stolen property, refuse to reimburse Bill, and threaten prosecution if Bill refuses to turn it over. And let's face it, while some Good Samaritans will be treated positively, others will not.


Scenarios like the current one are, as I think we all know, few and far between. Few people own bikes so rare that only one will exist in the entire Bay Area. Many stolen bikes are chopped for parts or shipped out of the area where they are stolen; and thieves and fences, I wager, want to have absolutely nothing to do with the original owner of a stolen bike.

Bike theft is also rampant in many areas which do not have "lazy victims," such as -- well, just about every major urban area.

As such, I find it unlikely that the willingness of victims to pay to retrieve their stolen goods is a "major," or even notable, segment of the populace that is willing to buy stolen goods, and therefore not a major part of the bike theft problem.

werewolf

Sometimes I wonder if this thread is even legit. I never heard of anything like this before: crime gets announced, crime gets investigated, clues appear like magic, crime solved, all on one thread in one day! Sounds like one of those old Bob & Ray skits with their detective character. The crimes get committed and solved and the criminal gets apprehended and sentenced within the space of the 2 minute skit. Next we'll see here: the criminal was apprehended by a SWAT team in the Starbucks and he has been tried convicted and sentenced to 30 years without parole in the state pen. Case closed!

spambait11

Heh heh.

Foldable Two

Please let us know the location of the Starbucks where this sting operation will take place. Sounds like it might be worth the drive from the Portland area to watch it go down!

folder fanatic

The way this new world works now, with no one trusting each other, much less helping someone who is not a member of an inner related circle, I am more in favor of folding bike ownership. Assuming you are separated from the bike for any reason, prevention is the only way to go now-especially where I live right smack in the middle of gangland where everyone is for themselves only. The Norman Rockwell ideal America where I grew up does not exist anymore but for rare exceptions.

pm124

Such the skeptic. This has happened before: https://www.transalt.org/press/media/2007/1293.html

Incidentally, the flea market story should be easy to verify. Typically, one needs to register to sell something. At least, that's the case for the Berkeley Flea Market.

axolotl

here's another true story involving stolen bikes and craigslist:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082501363.html

werewolf

Yes, skeptic I am. But thanks for the links. From the Wash. Post link:


"...he scratched the surface of the region's stolen-bikes underworld, which police and bike store owners say has become increasingly sophisticated as expensive bikes have flooded the market and Internet sites have provided platforms to sell them easily and at high prices.

"It used to be that stolen bikes were more of a crime of opportunity," said Denise D'Amour, co-owner of Capitol Hill Bikes. "People saw a bike that wasn't locked very well, and they would grab the bike and run. With the advent of Craigslist and eBay, it looks like more expensive bikes are being stolen in a more organized way."

D.C. police Lt. Michael Smith said that although the department doesn't keep statistics on the subject, bike theft in the region appears to be on the rise. "It's gone up significantly because there's a market on the street for bicycles," Smith said. "They're killing us."

Although Montgomery County police statistics show little change in the level of bike thefts, Metro Transit Police, who track thefts from Metro stations, reported 25 bike thefts in May and 32 in June -- roughly double the numbers from the same months last year.

Police say most bike thefts go unsolved because many victims do not report the crimes or have unregistered bikes and few promising leads. With the Craigslist lead, Moulton became one of the few people in the region who have a stolen bike story with a happy ending.

The odds of recovering a stolen bike are slim, says Bryan Hance, a self-described computer nerd who created a Web site, https://www.stolenbicycleregistry.com, that allows people to post photos and descriptions of stolen bikes for free...."






Guess I'm behind the times. Is there any lock that can actually give these new organized and computerized bike thieves some trouble?

rhm

This whole thread is disturbing. I have at least a dozen bikes I have literally taken out of the trash, including four I took off the curbside on trash day, and I can't count how many kids bikes, which I've fixed up as necessary for my kids to ride. The kids' bikes have almost all come out of a dumpster, the same one that has provided me with some relatively high end bikes, a Bianchi road bike and a Trek MTB and a nice old threespeed, and lots of spare parts... which lie in my basement waiting to be either fixed up or stripped for parts... all in the interest of recycling. I have no way of knowing if these may have been stolen at some point; all I know is they should never have been thrown away. I also know that people DO throw these things away, like it or not. Every time I find one, literally in the trash, am I supposed to call the police, or do some kind of search to figure out whether it was stolen? Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking a brand new Tikit here... but people are so wasteful that it honestly wouldn't surprise me to find a brand new Tikit in the trash, probably with some damage such as a flat tire, which would render it 'totalled.' And if I saw one at a flea market, I'd snap it up in a heartbeat, and I wouldn't sell it on Craigslist if I did.

I bought a 25-year old Fender guitar amp at a yard sale last summer... paid $38 for it... and discovered I could sell it for $750 on Ebay if I wanted to... not that I want to! But now this thread makes me wonder what I should have done: walked away from it? Called the police to report too-good-to-be-true prices at a yard sale?

I don't know anything about the guy who tried to sell this bike on craigslist, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. We expect our fellow Americans to recognize a good deal and to try to profit from one where they can; that's the American way, like it or not. I hope this story ends happily, with the original and rightful owner getting the bike back and all... but it's a mess one way or another.

geo8rge

"Guess I'm behind the times. Is there any lock that can actually give these new organized and computerized bike thieves some trouble?" No, but if you search the forum on 'theft' you can find tactics that might reduce the risk.

As to CL/ebay I have bought and sold on it. You are never sure if the stuff is stolen. All used property for sale has a sad story behind it (I worked hard for my money, bought something I never used, now I have to sell it to you at a discount, stupid me).