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Old 01-19-08, 12:14 AM   #1
nojoka
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Dahon Jack seatpost broke off while riding - wish I would have seen the recall

I was riding down a hill pretty fast, 25+ I would say and my seat broke off of my Dahon Jack. Luckily I braked and made it to the side of the road without getting hurt. I spent 20 mins looking for the bike seat and the other parts, all I could find was one piece of the clamp. I even went back later and didn't find anything else. Best part is 5 days later I got an email from Performance Bike about the recall. The email said about getting the replacement parts but also said I could return the bike for a refund if I wanted. Thats what I did because the bike was a piece of crap. Chain skipping issues even after multiple adjustments, rims with no braking surface (horrible in the rain), hated the twist shifter and I could use a higher top gear. Also the frame creaked all the time and the top tube didn't seem to add any structural integrity, it's like it was just for show.
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Old 01-19-08, 01:13 AM   #2
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Wow! That must be really scary. I'm glad that you made through scath free.
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Old 01-19-08, 06:09 AM   #3
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.....now it's the seat posts that are snapping.

Like most things that look too good too be true, Dahons look sensational, but seem to be utter rubbish if you want to do serious riding, never heard of a seat post breaking on a R20, even a modded one.
You can waste your hard earned cash on a top end Pro TT, but you will still have nagging lingering fears when you're riding it...."Will the crappy headstem snap, (at any given moment), if I put it under mininmal stress?", "Will the seat post snap if I'm powering up a hill?", "Will the chain slip if I stand up to sprint through the traffic lights?"
Seems to me that Dahons are good for a doddle on a MUP, not much else.
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Old 01-19-08, 08:45 AM   #4
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.....now it's the seat posts that are snapping.

Like most things that look too good too be true, Dahons look sensational, but seem to be utter rubbish if you want to do serious riding, never heard of a seat post breaking on a R20, even a modded one.
You can waste your hard earned cash on a top end Pro TT, but you will still have nagging lingering fears when you're riding it...."Will the crappy headstem snap, (at any given moment), if I put it under mininmal stress?", "Will the seat post snap if I'm powering up a hill?", "Will the chain slip if I stand up to sprint through the traffic lights?"
Seems to me that Dahons are good for a doddle on a MUP, not much else.
I've got a Speed D7 which is in the middle to low end of the Dahon model range. I have no fears that the stem, seat post of frame is going to fail one me. Given the price point the component selection is understandably unspectacular, but completely functional. It was my first folding bike and I expected it to be a whole lots less solid than it actually turned out.

I've also test ridden a Speed TR, a Curve D3 and a Speed P8 - all of them seemed equally well made and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of them if they fit me and my needs.

I can't speak to all Dahon models, but the ones I have had experience with are certainly not rubbish nor a waste of money. Which Dahon models have you owned and had trouble with?
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Old 01-19-08, 09:00 AM   #5
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I have a Speed 7 and was riding it one time (50 miles) when the screws holding the saddle to the seat rail came lose. Got home and tightened it and everything was fine. Few weeks later I replaced the seat post with suspension kind and every now and then, the screws would come lose but I always get to tighten it immediately since I started bringing along a basic bicycle multitool. I still have the old seat post and use it as a backup in case the need arise. I say I have mixed feelings with a Dahon but the Speed 7 is the entry level model thus maybe the reason the components are not too great. My next folder will surely be a Downtube or Bikefriday.
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Old 01-19-08, 11:00 AM   #6
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Glad you're ok.

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Old 01-19-08, 01:35 PM   #7
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I was riding down a hill pretty fast, 25+ I would say and my seat broke off of my Dahon Jack. Luckily I braked and made it to the side of the road without getting hurt.
Ditto on the glad you're ok.


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Thats what I did because the bike was a piece of crap. Chain skipping issues even after multiple adjustments, rims with no braking surface (horrible in the rain), hated the twist shifter and I could use a higher top gear. Also the frame creaked all the time and the top tube didn't seem to add any structural integrity, it's like it was just for show.
I like the Jack, but I think you're right about the braking; I attribute it more to the lousy OEM brake pads than the rims though. Other than a tight bottom bracket spindle, drivetrain's been fine for me.

I haven't experienced the creaking yet (not that I'm looking forward to it or anything), but I'll be on the look out now. Thor has been a great dealer to work with, and notified me that he sent the bolt. That's the kind of service I appreciate.
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Old 01-19-08, 07:07 PM   #8
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Also the frame creaked all the time and the top tube didn't seem to add any structural integrity, it's like it was just for show.
That top tube is called a rebar. It provides extra support to prevent the frame sagging under load. It also has the tendency for the bar's 2 faces to rub against each other and make horrible creaking sounds. The Dahon Helios also does this. The problem is easily solved by putting a piece of duct tape in that interface.

Glad you're OK.
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Old 01-20-08, 01:15 PM   #9
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That top tube is called a rebar. It provides extra support to prevent the frame sagging under load. It also has the tendency for the bar's 2 faces to rub against each other and make horrible creaking sounds.
The Dahon Helios also does this. The problem is easily solved by putting a piece of duct tape in that interface.

Glad you're OK.

Hmmm....does this mean that all of the Dahon design flaws are now solved?....with duct tape??
Woo Hoo.
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Old 01-20-08, 03:58 PM   #10
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Hmmm....does this mean that all of the Dahon design flaws are now solved?....with duct tape??
Woo Hoo.
Yep. You can even build a tandem using some duct tape.

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Old 01-20-08, 04:20 PM   #11
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[quote=jur;6017622]Yep. You can even build a tandem using some duct tape.


Holy death trap JUR,

Now you're done it!!! Dahon will probably start making tandems using this method and claim they were the first

Why don't you make one, Jur, and take it on the AAC......I can see it now....you and Connie descending Mt Buffalo at breakneck speeds, leaning hard into a nasty switchback....praying, "Please, please, please hold together...(The duct tape, not SWMBO)"

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Old 01-22-08, 12:54 AM   #12
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I was riding down a hill pretty fast, 25+ I would say and my seat broke off of my Dahon Jack. Luckily I braked and made it to the side of the road without getting hurt. I spent 20 mins looking for the bike seat and the other parts, all I could find was one piece of the clamp. I even went back later and didn't find anything else. Best part is 5 days later I got an email from Performance Bike about the recall. The email said about getting the replacement parts but also said I could return the bike for a refund if I wanted. Thats what I did because the bike was a piece of crap. Chain skipping issues even after multiple adjustments, rims with no braking surface (horrible in the rain), hated the twist shifter and I could use a higher top gear. Also the frame creaked all the time and the top tube didn't seem to add any structural integrity, it's like it was just for show.
I briefly owned a Dahon Ciao (actually my wife bought it and we returned it). While the components were nice and it was a comfortable bike, it just didn't feel substantial enough to last. The bike deflected rather noticeably and various screws kept coming loose on it no matter how many times I tightened them. The biggest flaw I found was the alignment of the front tire went out constantly and didn't seem to be corrected by further tightening. That bike is supposed to be representative of their higher-end quality and pricing and not an entry level model. The main reason we purchased the bike originally was because of its lower price in comparison to a Moulton, Airnimal, or even Bike Friday. It would seem with Dahon you get what you pay for. Their models while attractive and reasonably priced do not seem suitable for more than pedaling around the park a few times a year. I'm pleased after hearing this that my intuition seems to be correct on the bike. My wife is now ordering a Bike Friday tikit, at least that's what she tells me. (She likes the Brompton's fold, but I'm trying to convince her that seems to be all it does well.)
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Old 01-22-08, 03:59 AM   #13
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She likes the Brompton's fold, but I'm trying to convince her that seems to be all it does well
LOUD cough !!! now duck for cover as a few folded brommies fly your way.
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Old 01-22-08, 10:12 AM   #14
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Their models while attractive and reasonably priced do not seem suitable for more than pedaling around the park a few times a year.
Doing more theoretical YouTube analysis I see.


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I'm pleased after hearing this that my intuition seems to be correct on the bike.
Unless you call misguided asinine assumptions "intuition." Must be cold in the desert these days.
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Old 01-22-08, 11:08 AM   #15
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lol
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Old 01-23-08, 08:55 AM   #16
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Doing more theoretical YouTube analysis I see.



Unless you call misguided asinine assumptions "intuition." Must be cold in the desert these days.
Ok. Teach me wise one with your superior education and experience. How many years experience working as a structural engineer have you acquired? How many years as a successful business man have you achieved? You seem like a fellow that would tell me that I must be stupid for buying a Mercedes when a Fiat would do. Nevermind it's safer and more enjoyable... The simple truth is Dahon sold me a bike. I thought it was ****e. I returned it. Then I bought two bikes from Bike Friday, who I'm pleased to say get to keep my money and can likely look forward to more of it. I bought them from Bike Friday sight unseen based on their reputation alone. I bought Dahon's hesitantly from a shop that had one in stock and because my wife and I thought it was cheap enough to allow a shot. My wife also liked that it was "cute". Dahon's a large company for sure and probably doesn't care about the $20,000 or so I'll spend on bikes in my remaining years, but do a little searching and I'm not the only one dissatisfied by the "Designed in America" "Made in China" b.s. They'll never sell me another bike, and your ridiculous attitude must mean that somehow affects you.
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Old 01-23-08, 11:18 AM   #17
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Ok. Teach me wise one with your superior education and experience. How many years experience working as a structural engineer have you acquired? How many years as a successful business man have you achieved?
Oh no, you're the real smart guy. If you answer my questions, I'll answer yours.

First, neither of the above, assuming you're telling the truth (or that I would even care), qualifies you as an expert in folding bikes since your DIRECT EXPERIENCE with folding bikes is so paltry. Be humble. You're never too old to learn.

Second, since this thread is about the Dahon Jack, why do you think your minimal experience with a Dahon Ciao in some way relevantly correlates either to the Jack or the Dahon line in general? Are they the same bike? Is your Ciao experience representative of the majority experience? Have you even tried a Jack? Do you have enough long-term experience with either bike to be able to state so boldly their strengths and weaknesses? Are you relating your wife's experience with riding the Ciao or is it your personal experience? What exactly are the specific problems you're referring to?

Third, you haven't even ridden a tikit yet, yet you're able to praise a company whose product you're only familiar with through reading alone. While I commend you on your dedication to research and scholarship, I really would like to know how you are able post any merits of the bike when you don't even know its strengths and weaknesses firsthand. For example, can you tell me if the folding is secure? Does the paint rub off the handlepost because of quick-folding? How does the bike handle with only one pannier in the front? Have you dealt with any corrosion problems? What do you think are the strengths and weaknesses of ETRTO 349 vs. 406 wheels? What kind of tires are you using? Do you recommend them? Are you really an engineer?

Fourth, I neither care what you drive not what you THEORETICALLY will spend on bikes. Most people in this forum have probably spent more on bikes in less time, so again you fail to impress me.

Fifth, my "ridiculous attitude" is only a product of preposterous bull**** from posts like yours which have no basis in fact but are mired in misinformation and bias, not to mention being non-topical. You've admitted in another post that you were wrong in your understanding and assessment of Bike Friday's weight limits on their bikes so how do you know you're right in your assessment of Dahon? Furthermore, this points out your weakness of knowing Bike Friday in general. This also demonstrates your naiveté when you can't even acknowledge that EVERY company has good points and bad points. Problem with you is that you're not able to accurately assess what they are, either good or bad. Why is that? It's because you just don't know, so stop posting like you do know until you really do! We're not your customers! Don't treat us like you have to sell us something otherwise you'll lose our business. Most people are in this sub-forum because they want accurate information; isn't that why you came? How would you like it if you were deluged with information that wasn't based in any tangible experience or data?

Bottom line: get your bike first and ride it a while before posting pros and cons of anything. It makes for better and more credible reading.

Secondly, but just as importantly, never throw your credentials around unless they're relevant to the discussion and/or outstanding and impressive on their own merits. Around my area, you're run of the mill.
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Old 01-23-08, 03:04 PM   #18
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Oh no, you're the real smart guy. If you answer my questions, I'll answer yours.

First, neither of the above, assuming you're telling the truth (or that I would even care), qualifies you as an expert in folding bikes since your DIRECT EXPERIENCE with folding bikes is so paltry. Be humble. You're never too old to learn.

Second, since this thread is about the Dahon Jack, why do you think your minimal experience with a Dahon Ciao in some way relevantly correlates either to the Jack or the Dahon line in general? Are they the same bike? Is your Ciao experience representative of the majority experience? Have you even tried a Jack? Do you have enough long-term experience with either bike to be able to state so boldly their strengths and weaknesses? Are you relating your wife's experience with riding the Ciao or is it your personal experience? What exactly are the specific problems you're referring to?

Third, you haven't even ridden a tikit yet, yet you're able to praise a company whose product you're only familiar with through reading alone. While I commend you on your dedication to research and scholarship, I really would like to know how you are able post any merits of the bike when you don't even know its strengths and weaknesses firsthand. For example, can you tell me if the folding is secure? Does the paint rub off the handlepost because of quick-folding? How does the bike handle with only one pannier in the front? Have you dealt with any corrosion problems? What do you think are the strengths and weaknesses of ETRTO 349 vs. 406 wheels? What kind of tires are you using? Do you recommend them? Are you really an engineer?

Fourth, I neither care what you drive not what you THEORETICALLY will spend on bikes. Most people in this forum have probably spent more on bikes in less time, so again you fail to impress me.

Fifth, my "ridiculous attitude" is only a product of preposterous bull**** from posts like yours which have no basis in fact but are mired in misinformation and bias, not to mention being non-topical. You've admitted in another post that you were wrong in your understanding and assessment of Bike Friday's weight limits on their bikes so how do you know you're right in your assessment of Dahon? Furthermore, this points out your weakness of knowing Bike Friday in general. This also demonstrates your naiveté when you can't even acknowledge that EVERY company has good points and bad points. Problem with you is that you're not able to accurately assess what they are, either good or bad. Why is that? It's because you just don't know, so stop posting like you do know until you really do! We're not your customers! Don't treat us like you have to sell us something otherwise you'll lose our business. Most people are in this sub-forum because they want accurate information; isn't that why you came? How would you like it if you were deluged with information that wasn't based in any tangible experience or data?

Bottom line: get your bike first and ride it a while before posting pros and cons of anything. It makes for better and more credible reading.

Secondly, but just as importantly, never throw your credentials around unless they're relevant to the discussion and/or outstanding and impressive on their own merits. Around my area, you're run of the mill.
I agree with some of what you're saying. I found the curt nature of your reply to me discribing a sales and product experience (yes, I rode it more than my wife) offensive. Why? I have every right to an opinion on a personal experience. Regardless, I am no expert on folding bicycles, but I know a good structural system when I see one and good quality control, which neither were dramtically apparent in the bike I briefly owned. Why else would I have returned it? It actually rode rather well otherwise. I outlined what specifically was wrong with it in other posts. Basically everytime I folded it, it would be out of alignment on the unfold and many things kept coming loose, like the handle bars, the little catch for the folded handlebars, the magnet to keep it closed, and the relectors to name a few. Not to mention using a material like aluminum to create a plate moment connection in the location of near highest moment fitted with welds and a tension rod is not wise for something like a bike subject to structural fatigue. It was admittedly not a Jack, but a Dahon product. Usually performance problems in an industry like bike manufacturing would be evident across the line because of shared parts and design schemes. I will agree to retire my views until I have more experience with my purchase, but tone it down a notch. A little tact would keep from being offensive yet still retaining your point. Lastly, this is the U.S. Wealth and success are run of the mill, and I rather enjoy that about it. I am also very aware there's always someone with more. My point was one bad experience with a product can cost a company lots of money. If enough people who spent x dollars on a product decided to walk away from a company y and support company z, company y will not be in business long. Most consumers are very impressionable, much like myself. In business you only have the first chance in most cases to lock the sale or lose it. The internet and forums like these exacerbate that reality, but all's fair in love and capitalism. My experience with the shop (which I never supported until looking for a folding bike) and the product were enough to cause me to no longer want to do business with either. That is what is relevant to the post. I bet that gentleman won't be buying another Dahon or one for his wife, kids, parents, etc. or recommending them to any friends. That's 5 to 10 potential customers lost per incident. This man's and my own complaints are not the first I've seen. That could speak trouble for Dahon. In business reputation is everything. Luckily for them, you are obviously a satisfied consumer, and I will keep that in mind if evaluating these products again. I do appreciate your response and value the purpose of this forum.
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Old 01-23-08, 03:41 PM   #19
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.... I do appreciate your response and value the purpose of this forum.
It's stuff like this that make this folder sub-forum GREAT!! None of the petty bickering that occurs other places. Like on rec.bicycles.tech. where the people are a huge pain.
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Old 01-23-08, 07:26 PM   #20
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My experience with the shop (which I never supported until looking for a folding bike) and the product were enough to cause me to no longer want to do business with either. That is what is relevant to the post. I bet that gentleman won't be buying another Dahon or one for his wife, kids, parents, etc. or recommending them to any friends. That's 5 to 10 potential customers lost per incident. This man's and my own complaints are not the first I've seen. That could speak trouble for Dahon. In business reputation is everything.
Thanks for clarifying your reply. Fair enough.


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Luckily for them, you are obviously a satisfied consumer, and I will keep that in mind if evaluating these products again.
I'm still evaluating the Jack. There are things about Dahon I'm not pleased about especially regarding their smaller wheeled folders; there are even some things about the Jack I'm not too pleased about, but for me, these issues are minor in comparison to what you mentioned above.

If a bike has a problem or a significant issue, I think you do everyone a service to let them know about it regardless of whether they're "satisfied customers" or not. In fact, I think that was the overarching intent of this thread. I look forward to your further insights and contributions.
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Old 01-23-08, 08:19 PM   #21
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Spambait .. did you ever get a new bolt for you JACK ? Otherwise contact me offline and I will mail you one ...

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Old 01-23-08, 08:40 PM   #22
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Ok. Teach me wise one with your superior education and experience. How many years experience working as a structural engineer have you acquired? How many years as a successful business man have you achieved? You seem like a fellow that would tell me that I must be stupid for buying a Mercedes when a Fiat would do. Nevermind it's safer and more enjoyable... The simple truth is Dahon sold me a bike. I thought it was ****e. I returned it. Then I bought two bikes from Bike Friday, who I'm pleased to say get to keep my money and can likely look forward to more of it. I bought them from Bike Friday sight unseen based on their reputation alone. I bought Dahon's hesitantly from a shop that had one in stock and because my wife and I thought it was cheap enough to allow a shot. My wife also liked that it was "cute". Dahon's a large company for sure and probably doesn't care about the $20,000 or so I'll spend on bikes in my remaining years, but do a little searching and I'm not the only one dissatisfied by the "Designed in America" "Made in China" b.s. They'll never sell me another bike, and your ridiculous attitude must mean that somehow affects you.

I can't come up with any English word for ****e. Help me out please! Can I buy another vowel? What letter does it start with?

DON
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Old 01-23-08, 08:49 PM   #23
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As in, the ayatolla is a shiite.
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Old 01-23-08, 08:54 PM   #24
dwood
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Atascadero, California
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Sport [1998], Dahon Speed P8 2007, 1994 Diamond Back Ascent and a couple of Schwinn Stingrays [one boys, one girls] from circa 1977.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jur View Post
As in, the ayatolla is a shiite.
Thanks Jur . . . but that still doesn't quite fit the number of ****'s.

Close . . . but no cigar!

DON
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Old 01-23-08, 09:37 PM   #25
spambait11
Señor Mambo
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Bikes: Ti Sports roadie, Cannondale CAAD 3, Tern Cargo Node, Helix (soon)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
Spambait .. did you ever get a new bolt for you JACK ? Otherwise contact me offline and I will mail you one ...

Thor
Thor - yes I got it yesterday and installed it today. Much thanks for getting it to me ASAP!
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