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Old 02-27-08, 04:20 PM   #1
Sammyboy
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Raleigh 20 with 24" wheels

I remember reading a post a while back about being able to fit 24" wheels on a 20 (at least at the back - front needs new forks of course), but I can't find it. Does anyone remember? I'm always several projects ahead of what I'm doing, in my mind, and right now I'm thinking about a super-fast non folding 20, with SRAM Dual Drive, 24" wheels, superskinny rims and high pressure tyres. No, I don't have a sensible answer as to why that's a good idea, it's just the perverse way my mind has always worked. I remember as a kid, reading about some fella putting a big block Chevy V8 in the back of a Mini van, and that's just the sort of perverse thing that appeals to me.

So, which flavour of 24" are we talking about, and does anyone know about where a fork could be found? Just in case anyone was considering trying it? Not that I would, for a single moment?.......
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Old 02-27-08, 05:33 PM   #2
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I have a set of brand new Velocity 24" rims sitting in my shed right now, waiting for such a project and some 24" forks as well....I might have to cut down the Raleigh's head tube a fraction, but........

Sammyboy, I'll race you to see who completes this insanity first.
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Old 02-27-08, 05:39 PM   #3
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Jeez - I don't even have a frame yet! It's the possibility of a Dual Drive on the cheap that made me think about this. I was thinking "what sort of project would that suit?". Which particular flavour of 24" are your wheels (there seem to be at least 3), and are you sure they'll fit?
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Old 02-27-08, 06:05 PM   #4
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They're MTB rims, but still reasonably narrow, I think with some cutting and re-positioning of the rear brake bridge and the small bridge where the fender attaches to at the front, they shoud fit. I'm thinking.....Rohloff??......nah, maybe Nexus or S/A 8 speed.
Anyways, I have a 24" frame very similar to the R20 that I can use if it isn't possible, less hassle with BB thread and width, threaded steerer, more cockpit room etc.
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Old 02-28-08, 01:46 AM   #5
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24" folders used to be common in Norway in the 70`s. Made here by DBS (short for The Best Bike). Still alot of them around. My neighbour has got one, I gave away 4-5 of them each year for the last 4 yrs I think. I`we got a 24" "folderfork" (long tube and made for the clamp on top) in my basement (do you want a picture of my basement? ALOT of diff things there..) I think peopel stopped using them becouse they are quite big and quite heavy. If you lived closer you could have it, but posting is more than buying a new I think.
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Old 02-28-08, 02:21 AM   #6
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cool always like to see a horde of bikes.

I had a 24" wheeled folding bike. Got it at the Auction
It had the fat 20X175 tyres.
I got it to use the wheels on my Raleigh Phaser.
But the bike was too good condition, so I sold it for 5 times what I paid for it.

I managed to fit a 26" 559 wheel onto a shopper, with a 26X 1.5 tyre and a 7 speed block.
I removed the brake bridges. Never built it up tho.
The BB height was very high. Would need frame mods.
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Old 02-28-08, 02:35 AM   #7
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Not many bikes I am afraid, but bikeparts. Two frames, both of them fits me well so I cannot make myself throw them, lots of wheels, also wheelchairwheels, 20" WHEELS, 16" and 12,5". Keeping some drumbreake wheels (20, 24 26 and 28", but only frontwheels at the monent. Some half way finnished trailers made from tubes from alu campingchairs, alot of forks. It is a small room, maybe 3x3 mtrs.. I`ll post a picture for you later of my neighbours DBS folder. Also look at the Italian beauty I posted on the "sticky" on top of the folderpage. That one is one out of 1000. Short of time now. Pix later.
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Old 02-28-08, 03:06 AM   #8
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got loads of parts myself.
maybe too many...

Got some wheel chair wheels. Was toying with the idea of making a lefty fork with a wheel chair wheel.
some of the hubs looks like a drum brake would go in there.
I used the tyres of them on my Raleigh Phaser. As the grey 24X1 3/8 tyres fitted and suited the silver bike. Although some wheel chairs use 22" wheels. Annoying as I have a pair of black anodised 22" wheels, cant get tyres for them.
Ive since adapted the Phaser for fat tyres. Its getting the BMX Cruiser treatment. That I tried to do to a similar bike when I was a kid.
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Old 02-28-08, 08:08 AM   #9
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Ok - first up - Sammyboy - you've mirrored my sentiments exactly - the engine thing, the no-actual-justfified-reason thing so I applaud! The stripped orange twenty non-folding frame in the shed is earmarked for just such a thing. What I'd like to find for mine is a rare fixed SA 3 speed for mine but different volks for different folks eh?

I bought a sturdy looking fork off ebay that looks like it'll do the job - looks like it's off a kids mtb but it's fairly elegant. Can't remember if the steerer is that long but this bike frame cost 5 so I'm not really worried about attacking it - hell - I'll have to remove/reposition the bridges anyway.

I think the rims you are after are the ISO 520 size - the same that they use on the fast Airnimal bikes and on the front of 'Terry' women's petite road bikes. Actually - either of these might prove a good source for a fork.

The thread you wanted is all about Guy Retreau's R-520 here: (pix are on second page)
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Old 02-28-08, 10:25 AM   #10
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An ASC eh? If I were to stumble across one of those, certainly it might be appropriate, but the chances of finding one at a low price? Small. Sounds like a great project though. There are ways to hack a 4 speed SA hub into a three speed fixed, or a three speed into a 2 fix, but IIRC they involve a machine shop. Thanks for the linky!
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Old 02-28-08, 02:53 PM   #11
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Well, I scored an SRAM Dual Drive 3 x 7 hub, brand new, for 25, so I guess this build is on for sometime in the future. I'll need a cassette of course, and left hand shifter plus something to shift the derailleur, and a clickbox, but I'd say 25 was a bit of a bargain here.
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Old 02-28-08, 06:40 PM   #12
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I wish I had a machine shop! I'm sure I have the skillz but not the tools... I've read over the guide on Sheldon's site before and it seems like a pretty involved job so one for a rainy day when I have a proper workshop haha... Then I can braze frames, and tinker to the heart's content (as it appears you do with that ace chopper etc...)

If you see an ASC - give me a shout (unlikely one will just pop up but you never know) - and good one with that dual-drive score - much cheapness abounds...
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Old 02-28-08, 07:52 PM   #13
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Is this it?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7649830...n/photostream/
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Old 02-29-08, 04:44 AM   #14
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Yes. that's the fella. One like that is in my future. I can't believe he has that Royal Enfield - I've breen Jonesin for one of those since I saw them on Tony Hadland's site - I love rare and unappreciated things.

LittlePixel - my Dad has a machine shop in his garage. If you seriously wanted a tilt at that, we could probably arrange to use it. ASC's come up on eBay quite often, but they tend to sell for the price of a new Merc. Fingers crossed for SA to come througj with a re-release; there's been a lot of pressure on them for it since Sheldon passed.
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Old 02-29-08, 06:46 AM   #15
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Then I shall add to the burgeoning list of mails to Sunrace/SA asking for one!

I think that with the way the fixed scene has mushroomed over the past few years (me included) they'd be fools not to get one of these out - the best of both worlds!

Thanks for the offer on your dads shop - I may take you up on that one day (when I have some parts and a usable frame etc - this bike will be a slooooow one to realise...
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Old 03-05-08, 05:55 PM   #16
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Raleigh Five-Twenty

Sammyboy.
I see you found the Five Twenty and the Revelation on Flickr. Just a few more notes for you.

1. Cut off the kickstand and also the rear brake and rack brace.
2. I also cut down the head tube on the bottom to eliminate the external brazed on stop limiting the rotation of the fork. this steepened the angles slightly which the bike needs in my opinion.
3. Brased on new rear brake bridge to accomodate low clearance sidepull and ISO 520 rim.
4. Located 520 fork from 1980s vintage timetrial bike (24" front and a 700c rear) Terry bikes make a womens road bike like this too. then I took another fork with 1" steertube, Made a internal sleeve and brazed on a steertube extension, mainly because you will never find a fork with enough steertube to satisfy you. the internal sleeve is essential for you safety.
5. I originally set this up as single speed but now I have it as a 4-speed freewheel with 60T front chainring. If I had a 56T or a 58T it might be a better allround setup.
6. I also started out with 24x1 inch panasonic pasela tires. they were a bit too high performance and didn't eat up enough of the road shock. Since then I have switched to a pair of Odessey BMX 24(520) x 1 3/8" tires and the ride quality is very much improved. Have lots of miles on it only mishap was folding the rear triangle due to the insufficient chainstays on the Twenty. I replaced the tiny chainstays with a larger member and no more worries.

Good luck on your conversion. regards from the Retreau Guy
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Old 03-06-08, 07:47 AM   #17
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I have a few questions. Did you braze a new brake bridge because it was neccesary for clearance, or because you thought the other one was ugly? It's not clear from the other thread. If you cut down the head tube, surely it should be easy to find a fork with enough steerer? I simply don't have the skills to braze on a steertube extension. Did the chainstays collapse because of the absence of the various bridges and braces?

I really like the idea of this bike, but I'm concerned that there might be too much surgery involved.
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Old 03-06-08, 10:42 AM   #18
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Five-Twenty mods.

follow-up on your questions:
1. I cut the ugly parts off for asthetic reasons. I didn't measure the clearance on existing brake bridge, you may be able to leave it in place and just grind a bit off the underside to create the mnumum clearance. You need ~12.25" from the center of the axle to the underside of the bridge to clear a 520 rim with 1" road tire fitted.

2. I folded the rear triangle due to running an 8-speed chain on a single speed set-up with less than perfect chainline. The misfit caused the chain to occassionally attempt to ride up on the top of the gear teeth as if it were going through a shift. The absence of a chain slack mechanism means this is like taking a prybar to the rearend, then when it snaps back, it's like a hammer. I learned this the hardway as the frame folded on me during an agressive climb. Would be nice to report that it was just due to my overwhelming strength, but the real truth is that the damage was already done, I just didn't know it.
Now I ride with a proper chain and also an automatic chain tensioning device called a derailleur.

As far as surgery is concerned. I cut and fit the parts using the same tools you probably have in your shop. I had a friend with no cycling experience and no particular interest in working on frames, but who did have a gas bottle and a torch. The brazing is not much more difficult than soldering a plumbing connection. You can read up on what you need to know and be an educated novice to get the basic alterations done. I butt connected my new chainstays with an internal backing sleeves. the small gaps and brazing flux allow the brass material to flow with just moderate heat. The internal sleeves also provide additional strength to the tubing where the material properties have changed due to heating.

Good lucK. the Retreau Guy
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Old 03-06-08, 11:12 AM   #19
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Mine's going to be built with an SRAM Dual Drive, so a 3 speed hub with a 7 speed cassette - I really want both the top and bottom end - so that should obviate the sort of problems you had. I'll probably only remove items that have to go, though. I'm undecided as to whether to build this with a folding or non-folding 20; I'm having trouble imagining why I'd need to fold it. It's hardly likely to become my multi-mode commuter! Essentially, I just like the idea of building a 20 that's as fast as a road bike (or as close as it can be, given the weight!) for the sheer bloody minded fun of it.
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