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  1. #1
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Another damn Twenty thread... with a twist.

    I decided that I wanted to use my Phillip's Twenty (one of them) to pull my utility trailer which would require me to fit a larger rear cog to reduce the gearing which would make the bike pretty impractical for commuting and utilitarian riding.

    So I decided to build a dual drive.

    I had already built up a dual drive on another SA three speed and figured that I could do it on my Twenty to give me another 6 speed with a good gear range and no overlap.

    A Twenty differs from a conventional 3 speed in that they have fairly short dropouts, that were never made for a derailer, that also have a pronounced upward slope to the rear so I needed to modify the derailer hanger to overcome this.

    Mounting the hanger in the dropout conventionally did not allow enough room for the axle, anti rotation washer and nuts to sit far enough back. My solution was to set the hanger as far back in the dropout as possible, mark where the retaining screw goes on the dropout plate and drill a small hole for the retaining screw.

    Because of the angle of the dropout the stop on the hanger had to be ground down a little to allow the derailer to swivel forward and sit properly to allow for maximum wrap on the chain to prevent skipping. I had experimented with a few derailers with no success and found that an NOS Suntour Honour was perfect since they allow for greater forward adjustment than the Shimano derailers I was trying.

    Because my Twenty is also equipped with a rack for paniers I had to grind a small half circle at the back of the hanger to line up with the existing hole in the dropout plate (which was half covered by the hangar) so I could reattach the rack.

    The chain ring on a Phillip's Twenty is 3/32...

    I removed the 1/8 SA cog and spacers and replaced this with two Shimano 3 speed cogs (3/32) that are dished, when placed back to back they allow good spacing for the 3/32 chain I used and take up the space that was occupied by the SA cog and spacers... there is just a little wiggle that I have yet to address although it does not seem to be causing any operational issues.

    The shifting duties are being handled by a simple Shimano friction thumbie mounted on the left side of the handlebar although I do have some nicer thumbies like a pair of Huret half ratchets and some equally nice Suntour half ratchets.

    So now I have a Phillip's Twenty with a dual drive and 6 speed range of 35.8, 40.3, 47.7, 53.7, 63.6, and 71.6 gear inches with no overlap.

    The first ride was perfect as the shifting between the 16 and 18 tooth cogs is buttery smooth and for cruising home I just left the SA in third and moved between the high and low cogs which is a gentler 12% gearing change rather than the 25% change one gets in an SA hub when you change from 2nd to third.

    The drive:





    The bike (Grace)



    I can't wait to hook up the trailer but I have to modify my hitch assembly a little to accommodate that damn Twenty.

    I hope you enjoyed the little twist.

  2. #2
    jur
    jur is offline
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    Ace! I have thought about a mod like this... like a Brommie.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    was going to do this.
    got some shimano cogs...but only 18 tooth

    so on my Lil blue bike Ive got alloy cranks from a racer. 2 rings make it 6 speed
    but it does spin out in the top gear...52/18.

  4. #4
    Raleigh20 PugFixie, Merc LittlePixel's Avatar
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    Nice mod - kudos!
    [wonders if similar is possible with neglected SRAM 7 on the shelf in the shed]

    [edit. Then wonders how many gears would achievable with a rohloff 14; a schlumpf mountain drive and this...

  5. #5
    Senior Member stevegor's Avatar
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    In the 80's a friend of mine who is a brilliant mechanic, made up a road bike with a 3 speed SA hub on which he mounted a 5 or 6 speed cluster and a triple crank set up front.....said he could climb a wall with it.
    Nowadays he restores Mini Cooper S, Austin Healey, Jags and other British race cars.....as well as Moultons, Raleighs, classic Italian racing bikes.......


    BTW Sixty Fiver,
    If you had a BoB trailer you could simply buy BoBNutz to suit the SA hub's axle....that's what I'm toying with for the Wasp.
    Last edited by stevegor; 03-18-08 at 07:29 PM. Reason: add more

  6. #6
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    I have a few Bob's I can use at the shop but want to be able to pull my utility trailer as it accommodates bulkier items like bicycles, carts full of groceries, and medium to large sized dogs...bit not all at once.

    You can put an insane number of gears on a bike...

  7. #7
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    There is a geeky thread on SA hubs and gears in C&V that has some possible gearing permutations and good info... I had posted little bits about the Twenty project there and thougt I'd put it here as well.

    I have an SA 5 speed kicking around at the shop and have been doing the gear math on that and this looks pretty promising for my other Twenty's drive where I want even higher gears.

    "Experimental:" Sturmey AW + 2 cogs = interesting machine

  8. #8
    Senior Member stevegor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    I have a few Bob's I can use at the shop but want to be able to pull my utility trailer as it accommodates bulkier items like bicycles, carts full of groceries, and medium to large sized dogs...bit not all at once.

    You can put an insane number of gears on a bike...

    Sixty Fiver

    1: I still use my BoB Ibex for carting old bikes, just have to break them down a bit more and if I do a small to medium shopping load it handles that OK...if it's a big load I use a tub I made from 3 ply plastic sheet that is the shape of the cargo area and is about 5" higher than the frame. As for dogs....my Staffordshire Bull Terrier enjoys the ride.

    2: Insane number of gears?......what about a 3 spd SA hub, 6 speed cluster, triple front chainrings AND a Schlumpf mountain drive, if that is possible...that's 108 gearing choices...... I'm sure Sheldon would smile.
    Last edited by stevegor; 03-19-08 at 05:21 PM. Reason: correction

  9. #9
    jur
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    I suppose you know the Sheldon Brown built a 63-geared bike using all that but no Schlumpf? When asked why, he would answer, 'because I could'.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  10. #10
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevegor View Post
    Sixty Fiver

    1: I still use my BoB Ibex for carting old bikes, just have to break them down a bit more and if I do a small to medium shopping load it handles that OK...if it's a big load I use a tub I made from 3 ply plastic sheet that is the shape of the cargo area and is about 5" higher than the frame. As for dogs....my Staffordshire Bull Terrier enjoys the ride.

    2: Insane number of gears?......what about a 3 spd SA hub, 6 speed cluster, triple front chainrings AND a Schlumpf mountain drive, if that is possible...that's 108 gearing choices...... I'm sure Sheldon would smile.
    My utility trailer is light, tows very easily and is very stable so I would prefer that over using the Bob although I could really see myself using the Bob with my other Twenty as I am thinking of using it on a few metrics and perhaps even a century.


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