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Old 03-21-08, 10:13 AM   #1
makeinu
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Pacific Cycle's IF Mode...

...is the name of Mark Sanders' newest creation:


Lots more pictures of IF bikes on Mark's website here:
http://www.mas-design.com/Swivel-Head/Press/IF/

There are also videos of Mark folding the IF Mode and the IF Cross.

So here's the rundown for Pacific's new IF product line:
IF Reach- "swivel-head" folding version of Pacific's popular 20" full suspension Reach bike.
IF Mode- monoforked bike with enclosed drivetrain pictured above.
IF Cross- no-suspension 700c "swivel-head" folding bike.

I can't decide which one I want most. Hopefully I'll be able to find a dealer to try them all out once they're released. I may have to go with the IF Mode just based on the chic futuristic elegance (those that think the Strida is a fashion piece should go nuts over it).

[note to Mark/Pacific: Don't forget to bring that nifty bike stand/cane to market...and mudgards!]

Last edited by makeinu; 03-21-08 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 03-21-08, 12:53 PM   #2
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Here is a good article on Pacific
http://www.pacific-cycles.com/news_d...&cat0=2&cat=21
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Old 03-21-08, 03:37 PM   #3
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I love the way he show it. Looks so elegant and easy.

But what is it about mudguards that make some bikers feel
they don't need them?
Mudguards are for Sissys? Heheheh.

Ming Cycles had it first and then accepted to sell it to Pacific Cycles.
Why did they sell a winner? Is it very expensive to make? Not enough
buyers in the market to pay for the costs? What could it be?
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Old 03-22-08, 09:23 AM   #4
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Velovision reports that the IF Mode will only be available with a 2-speed Schlumpf drive.

How disappointing, I was hoping for at least a 3 speed.
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Old 03-22-08, 10:30 AM   #5
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Quote:
IF Reach: Based on Pacific's brilliant triathon winning Reach.
Reach is a full suspension 20" performance folding bike.
This IF version adds fast folding and rolling features, so the bike
can be used multi-modally (ie fold fast to get on a train, just in time :-).
Like Mark Sanders writes the reach will be as it always been
so the reason that but with the added IF folding.

While the newer bikes are at most two speed is due to the hub being onesided
but the Reach has two sided support for the wheels.
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Old 03-22-08, 01:38 PM   #6
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The 1st prototype has a shaft drive, production bikes have an all enclosed 2 speed, Schumpf (chain) drive with gearing at around 42 and 70".
The drivetrain of IF mode was changed from shaft-drive (single-speed) to chain-drive. I think this was due to being able to use Schumpf speed-drive on the bike.
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Old 04-08-08, 12:26 PM   #7
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IF designer Mark Sanders is reporting at www.mas-design.com that the IF Mode actually has "full-sized" wheels (>20"). Wow, the pictures make this bike look so small that I didn't think it was possible.

Should be a great city bike. I'm hoping the retail version will be equipped with the aerospoke wheels. The schlumpf shouldn't be too bad as it has about the same range as a 3 speed anyway.

Also, there's a couple of new videos from the 2008 Taipei Bike Show on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxNkqoQIeI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yBTQWGIIpc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJr7JRAe70c

Last edited by makeinu; 04-08-08 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 04-08-08, 06:52 PM   #8
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[QUOTE=Weakling;6381335]I love the way he show it. Looks so elegant and easy.

But what is it about mudguards that make some bikers feel
they don't need them?
Mudguards are for Sissys? Heheheh.

QUOTE]

That's what I thought until it I had to ride in the rain
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Old 05-31-08, 05:56 AM   #9
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These IF folders are very cool, but for the all the complication of the swivel head are they any more compact that something say like a dahon?


vs
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Old 05-31-08, 06:16 AM   #10
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Rootes has nailed it. Totally agree, despite the futuristic design, what does the IF range offer in terms of folding process and ergonomics that Dahon offers in larger bikes. I'd much prefer the spec on a Dahon Cadenza 08 with its disc brakes and excellent hub gearing. and the fold dimensions are similar surely? Correct me Rootes or I are wrong?
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/images%5...ra%5C14845.jpg
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Old 05-31-08, 06:17 AM   #11
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Perhaps the folding process will work better on the Reach? Great bike that needed a better fold.
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Old 05-31-08, 06:32 AM   #12
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If you look at the IF drawing above, the outline of the folded bike falls along 2 intersecting tangential wheel lines. Look at the Cadenza and imagine the same tangential lines; that shows it seems quite a bit larger.

But there are other good benefits than just the small size: Ability to roll the folded bike on the wheels, and the protected drive train. These were specific design goals, so the rolling ability is not accidental like on many other folded bikes.
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Old 06-01-08, 09:55 AM   #13
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can't be much difference in the IF and dahon pack sizes and it is only the mode that has the opposed monostays, the 700c IF cross is like the dahon.. i.e standard fork and seatstays layout

not sure it the dahon rolls - but it will stand up on its own like perhaps on a train... I have a brompton the great thing about brommies is that the stand up by themselves - handy when yoo might have to sit away from them..

agree about the Pacific Reach though - that would benefit from the swivel head design and might make it a more suitable folder for the commute/work where fold may happen 8 times a day and stopping the need to take the front wheel out all the time (also issue with airnimal joey)

jur - see you have a swift - great bike those, but think with some subtle changes could be made into a really great folder.

Si

Last edited by Rootes; 06-02-08 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 06-01-08, 09:56 AM   #14
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ps your raleigh 20 is cool as
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Old 06-09-08, 06:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulleady View Post
Rootes has nailed it. Totally agree, despite the futuristic design, what does the IF range offer in terms of folding process and ergonomics that Dahon offers in larger bikes. I'd much prefer the spec on a Dahon Cadenza 08 with its disc brakes and excellent hub gearing. and the fold dimensions are similar surely? Correct me Rootes or I are wrong?
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/images%5...ra%5C14845.jpg
I think it's difficult to generalize across the entire IF range of bikes. While they all employ similar technology it seems that the devil is in the details.

In the case of the IF Reach and IF Cross I would agree that the swivelhead feature does not, in itself, provide much benefit. There are, however, other features of the IF design which seem to offer clearly superior ergonomics to Dahon, namely:
1. The right fold separates much of the drivetrain from the outside world, offering both protection of the
drivetrain against bangs and protection of the outside world from grime.
2. Related to #1, the wider separation of the wheels provides a more stable base on which to stand/roll the bike, a feature which appears to be further enhanced by toe in of the side-by-side wheels.
3. The main hinge appears to be designed to use as a handle for pushing the folded bike along.

While these features could all easily be incorporated into a Dahon-style fold without a swiveling headset, I think the important point here is that so far Dahon has been unwilling to consider such ergonomics in their designs. As jur said, whereas the folded ergonomics of a Dahon bike is entirely accidental, the ergonomics of the IF range are specifically designed. Dahon could make their bikes fold to the right, but they don't; Dahon could make the wheels of their folded bikes toe in for rolling stability, but they don't; and Dahon could make the most natural grabbing point (the main hinge) for rolling their bikes shaped like a handle, but they don't. To me the biggest selling point of the IF Reach and IF Cross is simply Dahon's unwillingness to pay attention to the details. While the swivelhead probably does also shave off a few inches of protrusions, it is a minor benefit compared to the overall attention to detail (in my estimation).

The IF Mode, on the other hand, seems to be an entirely different beast which puts the swiveling headset to maximal use without compromise. The clear advantage of this bike is that on the folded bike the headset lies completely parallel to the main frame, completely eliminating the protruding headset/handlebars found on almost all folding bikes (including Dahon). With this cornerstone in place, achieving maximal compactness is simply a matter of correctly shaping the frame to fill the gaps in the folded package and eliminating wide parts like derailleurs and double sided axles. The end result is a bike with full size wheels whose folded volume is as small as a Brompton. In the case of the IF Mode, how could you question what it has to offer over a Dahon? What full size Dahon even comes close to twice the folded volume of a Brompton?

Last edited by makeinu; 06-09-08 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 06-11-08, 05:09 PM   #16
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Hmmm! Here we go again, people getting all negative over another of Mark's designs, when few have actually experienced it.
A few years ago I was privileged to attend a lecture that Mark was giving to the Institute of Structural Engineers, in Bath.
He brought along a Swivelhead (the IF prototype) a Strida and an early X-bike (the pre A-bike prototype)
I have folded and unfolded the Swivelhead, it was easy. But you all seem to be missing the point, the locking action of the Swivelhead catch pulls the frame into tension ( the way a Pedersen does when you sit on it) creating a very stiff frame that is also a very managable size, when folded, and which rolls very easily & comfortably. It was very nice & stiff to ride (unlike the X-bike, with it's tiny wheels and cable operated steering!)
I for one would love one. Any chance of one to test would be very welcome! LOL! Don't be shy!

Fingers & toes crossed!

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Old 08-12-08, 08:00 AM   #17
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IF Mode "final" prototype pics over at http://www.pacific-cycles.com.

Smells like they're pulling a Dahon (08 bikes in 09), but I'm glad to see they ditched the spoked wheels and are using what appear to be custom aluminum mag wheels in place of the aerospokes seen previously:


I wonder what the final weight will be because it looks lighter than the earlier prototypes.
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Old 08-12-08, 05:44 PM   #18
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It appears that one could put smaller 16" wheels on that bike.

Is there any reason one could not?

Does it have a hubgear, if not could a Nexus 8 be fitted?
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Old 08-12-08, 06:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BB49 View Post
It appears that one could put smaller 16" wheels on that bike.

Is there any reason one could not?
Considering the quality of Pacific's other bikes I expect that they've done a lot of tweaking to get the ride just right. Smaller wheels would probably throw it out of whack, but (on the other hand) lots of folders seem to be out of whack anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB49 View Post
Does it have a hubgear, if not could a Nexus 8 be fitted?
It has a monofork like the Strida. So no hubgear. However, it does come equipped with a 2-speed bottom-bracket gear (schlumpf).
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Old 08-13-08, 04:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makeinu View Post
IF Mode "final" prototype pics over at http://www.pacific-cycles.com.

Smells like they're pulling a Dahon (08 bikes in 09), but I'm glad to see they ditched the spoked wheels and are using what appear to be custom aluminum mag wheels in place of the aerospokes seen previously:


I wonder what the final weight will be because it looks lighter than the earlier prototypes.
12.5 kg according to Pacific's specs on their site
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Old 08-13-08, 09:04 AM   #21
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The IF mode looks really fab.... amazing wheeeeeeels !!

Also check out the 700c IF Cross also on Pacific web site .. 10.5Kg
This looks like an alternative to a dahon cadenza, which also tempts me - from the pictures above it folds MUCH smaller and doesn't seem to use tools (or needs to unbolt the handlebars).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulleady View Post
Rootes has nailed it. Totally agree, despite the futuristic design, what does the IF range offer in terms of folding process and ergonomics that Dahon offers in larger bikes. I'd much prefer the spec on a Dahon Cadenza 08 with its disc brakes and excellent hub gearing. and the fold dimensions are similar surely? Correct me Rootes or I are wrong?
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/images%5...ra%5C14845.jpg
No, sorry - I disagree. Even from the pictures above its obvious that even the new IF Cross, with bigger 700c wheels folds MUCH smaller than the Dahon. The dahon is a good all round bike, at a good price, like all Dahon bikes a really good formula. But it annoys me how the handlebars have been unscrewed in the Dahon picture - I guess after spannering them off they are just left to dangle ??... this may be fine if you've got time to dismantle and space for it in the 4x4 but would just not do on my crowded commutor train.

Only snag - I bet these new bikes cost an arm and a leg, when they finally arrive in the UK .. maybe worth a trip to half-price heaven (thats USA for us brits).
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Old 08-13-08, 03:09 PM   #22
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The IF mode looks really fab.... amazing wheeeeeeels !!

Also check out the 700c IF Cross also on Pacific web site .. 10.5Kg
This looks like an alternative to a dahon cadenza, which also tempts me - from the pictures above it folds MUCH smaller and doesn't seem to use tools (or needs to unbolt the handlebars).

No, sorry - I disagree. Even from the pictures above its obvious that even the new IF Cross, with bigger 700c wheels folds MUCH smaller than the Dahon. The dahon is a good all round bike, at a good price, like all Dahon bikes a really good formula. But it annoys me how the handlebars have been unscrewed in the Dahon picture - I guess after spannering them off they are just left to dangle ??... this may be fine if you've got time to dismantle and space for it in the 4x4 but would just not do on my crowded commutor train.

Only snag - I bet these new bikes cost an arm and a leg, when they finally arrive in the UK .. maybe worth a trip to half-price heaven (thats USA for us brits).
Yes, one feels sorry for the poor mainland Europeans, who only get a 33% discount on everything they buy as they pour off the busses here.

I don't like Brands Cycles, but it looks like they are carrying the line of Pacific bikes.
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Old 08-14-08, 08:50 AM   #23
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insider info ...

Hello All,

First let me introduce myself. I am Ryan Carroll. I started Astrix Sports in the USA and we have expanded into developing and licensing suspension systems on mountain bikes to other companies around the world for 8 years. Over the last 2 years I have also been working at Pacific Cycles as the Chief Development Engineer. Our design group focuses on creation and development of ideas into production.

Some of the previous projects out of the Pacific Design Studio have included examples like, Jedi for Louis Garneau in Japan, the new Pacific Reach and Diamondback UK's internal gear box downhill bike the Sabbath.

When I first saw and test rode Mark's folding idea on 2 of his personal concept bikes at Eurobike last year, I was excited with the chance to work with it. Pacific and Mark worked out a deal and ever since I have been busy working away engineer and designing iF bikes.

With George Lin's grand knowledge of folding bikes and his son Michael now also getting involved in creating and making ideas, we had a good team to accomplish putting Mark's ideas into production frames. Mark has even spent much time at home and in Taiwan helping work on the project.

Recently, it has been great to get to read all the comments and curious questions about these new products. IF Reach has just finished production and is headed out of the factory around the world to all distributors to have at dealers soon I hope.

We have spent the last 10 months doing FEA and production part manufacture analysis to get Mode into full production. Michael and I have spent countless hours working with forging companies to make such challenging parts as our rear arm. We are working with one of the best forging companies in Taiwan that makes exacting parts for Apple and others in the 2 wheel motorized industry and our arm was a welcomed challenge that is now amazing.

Other challenges have included our hydrostatic formed aluminum bladed wheels. After much research and talking to just about all mag wheel makers, 26” wheels all break. Even Mark’s concept bike is on its 3rd set now. So we decided to create our own solution for a strong super narrow wheel that could accomplish our need for folding performance. This was a pretty fun and exciting challenge for us to over come.

Coming up soon Michael and I will be at Eurobike and various parts of Germany traveling around with our Mode bikes and then off to Interbike, so if any of you are around stop and say hello

… and for a teaser, here is a picture of me riding my Mode after work out to the harbor…


Regards,

Ryan Carroll
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File Type: jpg Mode_harbor.jpg (17.2 KB, 65 views)
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Old 08-14-08, 09:00 AM   #24
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Greetings Ryan.. and a big welcome! .. nice to have you here
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Old 08-14-08, 09:15 AM   #25
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hi ryan, thats awesome news.

don't mean to threadjack but when will the schumph be avail for marks previous creation, strida?
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